HVAC ?

[G-Man]

Bryant Vs. Lenox

Got 2 estimates so far for a complete swap out of my HVAC system.  Both estimates were pretty much the same, swapping out the 3 piece system and laying a new pad outside as well.

Estimate with Lenox products  = $12,000 (includes $750 rebate)
Estimate with Bryant products = $ 6,900  (no rebate)

Is there really THAT much of a difference in equipment? 

Thanks.

[Jess from VA]

Gary, I just got all new Bryant gas furnace and elect AC (2.5 ton, more than adequate) for about $7K a year ago.  

Bryant and Carrier are supposed to be (essentially) the same (very good) equipment.

I was given a choice of three levels of energy efficiency.  Basic, very good, and super efficient (which is known to be unreliable, and for about 2-3K more).  So I got very good.  Everything I read and my seller/installer's advice was against the super efficient equipment (they have to go back and fix it, sometimes multiple times).  The basic would do, but only saved you maybe $1500 +/-.  I'm staying put, so the better efficiency will pay me back over time.  

My utility costs for gas (winter) and electric (summer) definitely went down for elec AC and gas furnace (not huge, but noticeable month to month... until the recent rate hikes due to Potatohead and his team of merry dimwits.  

My old unit was a good Carrier (2.5 ton) basic setup which had provided good service since 1985 (35 years, with only a couple easy fixes during my ownership).

My compressor sits on outdoor concrete patio (right opposite my utility room breaker box), but they stuck a nice polymer base under it (like 2 inch) that lets all the rain out and keeps it off the ground, and dry(er).

I had a good team of 3 experts (esp brazer) and the tear out and install was like 4.5 hours.  Not one problem since.

I have no knowledge of Lennox.

[G-Man]

Gary, I just got all new Bryant gas furnace and elect AC (2.5 ton, more than adequate) for about $7K a year ago. 

Bryant and Carrier are supposed to be (essentially) the same (very good) equipment.

I was given a choice of three levels of energy efficiency.  Basic, very good, and super efficient (which is known to be unreliable, and for about 2-3K more).  So I got very good.  Everything I read and my seller/installer's advice was against the super efficient equipment (they have to go back and fix it, sometimes multiple times).  The basic would do, but only saved you maybe $1500 +/-.  I'm staying put, so the better efficiency will pay me back over time.   

My utility costs for gas (winter) and electric (summer) definitely went down for elec AC and gas furnace (not huge, but noticeable month to month... until the recent rate hikes due to Potatohead and his team of merry dimwits.   

My old unit was a good Carrier (2.5 ton) basic setup which had provided good service since 1985 (35 years, with only a couple easy fixes during my ownership).

I have no knowledge of Lennox.

I'm only hear another 5 years, 6 tops.  I told the guy who gave me the big quote that and we discussed not going for more than needed and no need for the longer warranty.  I don't recall telling the Bryant guy if I was leaving that soon.  But knowing that I'm in the ballpark with price is great, thanks you!!!

[da prez]

Get a couple more estimates with the warranty spelled out and a copy in hand before giving a downstroke. With the last two furnace issues , it came down to the written warranty. Be a demanding ass , once paid , you have very little leverage.

             da prez

[Jess from VA]

Besides Ross' good warranty advice, my only other advice is this.

The equipment you choose may be installed by 50 different companies.

Besides choosing the equipment you want, it's more important to get good reputable installers/sellers than anything else.  A company that's been in business a long time and has a good reputation.  My guys include an HVAC lifetime expert (foreman) who lives five doors down from me and is a friend.  That's where my search started.

[carolinarider09]

I agree with Jess about the installer.  Also....

We have a Bryant Evolution (which was supposed to be top of the line when we got in in 2010 or so).  I do not remember the installation cost but .....  

Our house is abut 2,500 sq ft. two story with a great room.

Its a three zone system, Heat Pump with natural gas backup for temps below around 35 degrees F.

Remember its 10 or so years old.

We had to have the evaporator replaced due to rust (they since changed the material).  Cost for labor about $1,000.

Was recently told that there was rust on the inducer (I think that is the thing that handles the exhaust gas from the furnace).  Part covered by warranty but labor to install, was told several thousand dollars.

A couple of years ago, when the evaprorartor needed to be replaced, I also got a quote for a new Bryant system (again top of the line was told).  Estimate was about $12,000.

And, yes I would install another Bryant system.  The main reason, the vendor appears to know what he is dong (well they are a team but we get the same person for our six month checkups.)

Each time I have had an issue with my system (which was just the oringal install and the evaporator failure) I have consulted with people on this website.

https://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/

The above forum reads from bottom to top not top to bottom.  Also last to first so you have to go to the last page on a "thread" and the bottom of the page to get the first post.

Makes it a little hard to read at first.

But, remember its just another point of view.

[bassman]

Something doesn't seem right on those prices.  Are you getting quotes for comparable systems?  Almost like getting a quote for top of the line Lennox vs mid range Bryant which could account for the major price difference.

Lennox Signature vs Bryant Evolution (top of the line series)
Lennox Elite vs Bryant Preferred (mid range line)

As mentioned above, get several more quotes and get a reputable installer.  I replaced our furnace and A/C about 5 year ago and got 6 quotes.  Prices were MUCH closer in range for comparable systems.  Ultimately went with Lennox from a company with a solid name in my area.   Either of these brands have a good reputation as long as they are installed correctly (just like windows).

Good luck.

[POPS 57]

I was in the HVAC & R line of work for 27 years. Worked on industrial energy systems. But did a lot of home systems on the side. I liked Heil the best. Lenox will not sell parts to anyone outside of there dealers. You can get most anything on line now. But if you live in M.N. like i do and your heater is not working. You need the parts in hours not days.

[cookiedough]

I would not get top of the line considering only 6 more years there, so go mid range quality at best knowing it should last 10 more years no issues.

Go with installer closer by in case of any issues arise and one that will most likely be in business in the next 5-10 years not retiring, etc. 

[Jess Tolbirt]

2 years ago i bought a no name unit from our local appliance dealer here. 3 ton for 1500. new and that was air handler with A coil and condenser. of course i have to do the swap out

[Jersey mike]

If your only there a few more years the middle of the road would be your best bet. That will mean the new owners will see a new unit with a quality name brand knowing it still has years of service left in it. As far  as the warranty goes, is there one which is transferable to a new owner? That would also be a good selling point and some additional peace of mind for a new owner.

[G-Man]

I was in the HVAC & R line of work for 27 years. Worked on industrial energy systems. But did a lot of home systems on the side. I liked Heil the best. Lenox will not sell parts to anyone outside of there dealers. You can get most anything on line now. But if you live in M.N. like i do and your heater is not working. You need the parts in hours not days.

I have a Trane system currently and I needed a simple part and couldn't get any local supply house to sell it to me.  I had to buy it online.

[G-Man]

If your only there a few more years the middle of the road would be your best bet. That will mean the new owners will see a new unit with a quality name brand knowing it still has years of service left in it. As far  as the warranty goes, is there one which is transferable to a new owner? That would also be a good selling point and some additional peace of mind for a new owner.

I was thinking this as well.

I'm about to sink $100K into this house with only 5ish years left.  Have no choice, it's falling apart.  But I know I will get every penny back, plus interest, when I sell it.  My market seems bullet proof.  Even during the crashes, our values never went down, just stayed the same.  And now they are skyrocketing for newer remodeled. 

[Robert]

I was in the HVAC & R line of work for 27 years. Worked on industrial energy systems. But did a lot of home systems on the side. I liked Heil the best. Lenox will not sell parts to anyone outside of there dealers. You can get most anything on line now. But if you live in M.N. like i do and your heater is not working. You need the parts in hours not days.

I have a Trane system currently and I needed a simple part and couldn't get any local supply house to sell it to me.  I had to buy it online.

Trane/American Standard same thing, they make priority parts for their units so you cannot buy off the shelf stuff. I also had a problem with getting parts, had to go through my friends buisness to buy it and pick it up myself.

Dont know if they have it in your area but most here are getting the Goodman. They are simple have off the shelf parts and work well

[Twofeather]

I have been in constriction for over 30 years, and I have been doing residential heat and air for the last 15 years. I have installed and serviced 100's of units. Imho Lennox is the hardest brand to work on and/or get parts for. Carrier or Bryant (same thing) is very hard to get parts and they are very expensive. They don't want you to fix, they want you to replace. I know here in the Little Rock area you have to be a dealer in order to even buy their parts. Most of the time you have to wait so they can order whatever parts you need. Goodman used to be pretty good but not that great anymore just cheap. I've always like American Standard (Trane) or Rheem (Rudd), same thing different sticker. American Standard you have to be a dealer to buy or buy parts. Rheem you can buy most parts but not the units them self. Good warranty is important, but what the others have said about installers is the most important for sure. The installer can make or break or system. Just my opining and I hope this help you.

[hubcapsc]

The same place has installed/worked-on/replaced our HVAC
ever since we've been here. I don't care what kind of stuff they
use, I just like it that they are responsive and available. So, I
agree: good installers are what is important.

-Mike

[POPS 57]

The most important part of installing the a/c unit is pulling a vacuum. That will tell you if there are any leaks and rid the system of moisture. Very important to long life. I pull a four hour vac. when i install units. Always new oil in the vac. pump. I built a house in 1987 that i later sold to my son and a/c is still going strong.

[0leman]

Before winter hit last fall, I had a Rheen installled by local HVAC guy (both furnace and AC unit).  (he had installed a gas fireplace unit on our fireplace and put in line for gas cook stove couple years ago).   It took about 4 hours to do the job.  Good crew.  I am seeing savings of around $60 a month on gas/electric bills. 

The Rheen has a 10 year unlimited warranty which is back up by the installer.  This unit was replacing a Carrier heat pump/electric furnace unit which was not all that efficient and was getting close to 25 years old.

[t-man403]

The system you are looking for should cost between 10 and $12,000 Canadian. No manufacture, is building equipment that is designed to cause you grief. Also the industry is trying to protect the trade and themselves, by not selling every homeowner parts that most of them know nothing about or even if that’s the part that has failed. You should register your equipment with the manufacture and if there’s any failure within the warranty you should contact them and they will assign a dealer to make the repair. Or you should be calling the original installer. Either way will keep your warranty valid. I had been a Trane dealer for about 25 years. It’s only in the last two years that I decided to move over to Napoleon because it’s about the only equipment that is built in Canada anymore. Not only that, Trane although a great product, wasn’t treating there smaller dealers very good IMO.
Looking up the reviews on the products that Napoleon produces  the reviews were excellent! Your warranty is only as good as you are at having yearly check ups to keep the warranty to be valid servicing is required once a year and you have to be able to prove it. And due to how ridiculously long the warranties are you’re going to pay more for parts when they are out of warranty.
5-6 years in a home is long enough to treat yourself well. If your buying anything less than a 2 stage variable speed furnace, your making a mistake! Modulating units are a bit over the top for me and again IMO are not necessary. Just more electronics that can fail. Any furnace you buy though, regardless of warranty is manufactured as good as the rest of the line up offered by the manufacturer. Just different features is all just like buying a car. Oh yeah, 3 quotes is all you should waste your time on.

[f6john]

I’m reading and re-reading. I have to replace my aging unit this year, I know it will be $10k and up. Just want to make the best choice possible.

[0leman]

The Rheen HVAC system I replace was right at $10K.  That included replace the AC unit and the cold air return.   So far it has been well worth it.  The Gas furnace heats up the house quicker that the heat pump system.  Also, the blower runs on DC not AC.  Less electric used.

[scooperhsd]

The Rheen HVAC system I replace was right at $10K.  That included replace the AC unit and the cold air return.   So far it has been well worth it.  The Gas furnace heats up the house quicker that the heat pump system.  Also, the blower runs on DC not AC.  Less electric used.

Hope you don't regret that choice when the blower motor dies....

[t-man403]

The Rheen HVAC system I replace was right at $10K.  That included replace the AC unit and the cold air return.   So far it has been well worth it.  The Gas furnace heats up the house quicker that the heat pump system.  Also, the blower runs on DC not AC.  Less electric used.

Hope you don't regret that choice when the blower motor dies....

It happens but not very often. Mine has been running 24-7 for 27 years now. Super quiet and runs on 1 amp as opposed to 4 or 5 amps. Well worth it!

[0leman]

The Rheen HVAC system I replace was right at $10K.  That included replace the AC unit and the cold air return.   So far it has been well worth it.  The Gas furnace heats up the house quicker that the heat pump system.  Also, the blower runs on DC not AC.  Less electric used.

Hope you don't regret that choice when the blower motor dies....

It happens but not very often. Mine has been running 24-7 for 27 years now. Super quiet and runs on 1 amp as opposed to 4 or 5 amps. Well worth it!

As I said good warranty and good  HVAC local man that I deal with.

[G-Man]

The same place has installed/worked-on/replaced our HVAC
ever since we've been here. I don't care what kind of stuff they
use, I just like it that they are responsive and available. So, I
agree: good installers are what is important.

-Mike

My system has had a "freeon" leak for a long time.  Every two or three years I would have to call to have the system serviced and this one company would come on the day I called, every time.  Hottest days of course when the A/C would conk out and water would stream from the back of the coil unit in the basement.  So, of course I called him first for the estimate to replace the whole system.  He's the highest bid so fay, but a lot. 

[Jess from VA]

My 35yo Carrier also had a very slow freon (or whatever PC green planet crap they replaced it with) leak, and got a quick recharge after a few years.

My tech said my system was good and that recharges (every few years) were far cheaper than the alternatives.  I believed him.

Last year, it took a complete dump though. 

[G-Man]

My 35yo Carrier also had a very slow freon (or whatever PC green planet crap they replaced it with) leak, and got a quick recharge after a few years.

My tech said my system was good and that recharges (every few years) were far cheaper than the alternatives.  I believed him.

Last year, it took a complete dump though. 

Same exact story with me.

[t-man403]

An A/C system is no different than your fridge or freezer. Tell me…..how often do you have them re-charged?
Leaks MUST be fixed on your a/c system before a recharge is allowed….,PERIOD!

[Jess from VA]

An A/C system is no different than your fridge or freezer. Tell me…..how often do you have them re-charged?
Leaks MUST be fixed on your a/c system before a recharge is allowed….,PERIOD!

This sounds like the DMV.

I had a car the pot metal passenger door handle (outside) snapped off.  After getting an OE Lincoln price on the parts (which had to be painted) and a look at the work, I decided I didn't want or need a passenger outside door handle.  I drove alone 98 percent of the time, and decided the handle just made it easier to be car jacked.  

OH NO, you don' t pass your annual safety inspection (and can't drive the car without it).

There was not one thing unsafe about it.  The car was safer without an outdoor passenger door knob.  You could get out of the car, just not in the passenger door.

So I fixed it, and the paint almost matched.    

[t-man403]

An A/C system is no different than your fridge or freezer. Tell me…..how often do you have them re-charged?
Leaks MUST be fixed on your a/c system before a recharge is allowed….,PERIOD!

This sounds like the DMV.

I had a car the pot metal passenger door handle (outside) snapped off.  After getting an OE Lincoln price on the parts (which had to be painted) and a look at the work, I decided I didn't want or need a passenger outside door handle.  I drove alone 98 percent of the time, and decided the handle just made it easier to be car jacked.  

OH NO, you don' t pass your annual safety inspection (and can't drive the car without it).

There was not one thing unsafe about it.  The car was safer without an outdoor passenger door knob.  You could get out of the car, just not in the passenger door.

So I fixed it, and the paint almost matched.    

Good on ya….you fixed it! 

Refrigerants contaminate the atmosphere…..the ozone layer. Any refrigeration mechanic that has any integrity will capture the refrigerant that is left in the system after finding it leak and make the repair. An installation well done will never leak. Having said that, I have had one unit leak just after installation which was caused at time of manufacturing so it does happen but it shouldn’t. I have worked with some unethical mechanics that are just plain lazy and will discharge a system straight into the air. I gues because you can’t see it, it seems alright to do  ……wrong  !!