Running rich on all 6 cyclinders

[CoreyP]

Bike was running fine, plugs looked fine etc. What I did was desmog the bike and put in a new air filter, old one was dirty for sure. That was last fall.

I run all year round and my bike has slowly become harder and harder to start so Today I took the spark plugs out and they were all sooty. No oil.

The desmog or the air filter is what changed so some how that seems to be making me run richer then before?

I thought desmogging the bike really didn't do anything but clean the bike up? I didn't check the air filter which I seriously doubt that's the problem but a critter could have stuff some stuff where it doesn't belong?

Anyone have a thought on what is going on?  Bike has truck stack and glass pack exhausts and PO has done something to the carbs since I have an extra set of springs and needles. Didn't find any old jets...

[sandy]

Check the pilot screws. They should be set at 2 turns out from being LIGHTLY seated. Also, check the needles. If he installed aftermarket needles, they have notches with a circling to set height. Dynajet recommends the 3rd notch down from the top. The 4th notch will enrichen the fuel ratio too much. I set mine on the second notch to get better fuel mileage.
If you have OEM needles, check to see that there is only one thin washer under the needle. Some people add a washer to enrichen the mixture.

[Jims99]

I would check the air ox and filter. Very odd to have all cylinders richer up at once. Have you checked to make sure choke (enrichment) isn’t sticking? Desmog will not effect anything but vacuum leak chance’s.

[Skinhead]

Edited to correct autocorrect:

Are you sure the mixture enrichers (choke)  are releasing?   Unless you rejetted, I don't know how it could suddenly start ru
nning rich.

Added:. If you bike had been rejetted (later main jets) prior to the desmog, and your desmog corrected an air leak, that would cause it to run rich

[Bagger John - #3785]

What type of air filter...OEM, or K&N (or other oiled type)?

[CoreyP]

Air filter is OEM.

I have done nothing to this bike except for maintenance items. Exhaust and re jetting was all PO. I rode the bike about 12,000 with no problem until I de-smogged. I'm wondering if the carbs were set up with a vacuum leak which the de smog fixed????

It's all 6 cylinders uniformly. I will check the choke and see if it's sticking. That might explain all 6 cylinders?????

Mystery at this point.

[h13man]

Corey I have had a plug go bad twice in a row after 10,000 mi. and it was on cold start. Manual says to change every 10,000 mi. Yes others have mentioned gazillion of miles on their plugs. I replaced them with NGK Iridiums and I'm at 12,000 on them. The bike started 1st. stab of the button after 5 mo. layup but I also attribute not using Stabil anymore as my fuel additive for layup.

[Bagger John - #3785]

Corey I have had a plug go bad twice in a row after 10,000 mi. and it was on cold start. Manual says to change every 10,000 mi. Yes others have mentioned gazillion of miles on their plugs. I replaced them with NGK Iridiums and I'm at 12,000 on them. The bike started 1st. stab of the button after 5 mo. layup but I also attribute not using Stabil anymore as my fuel additive for layup.

I remove, clean, inspect and re-gap mine every year at spring season prep. If any signs of wear I change them. Thus far (over 30 cumulative seasons between all my Valkyries) - zero issues.

As far as fuel stabilizers go, Sta-Bil Marine (the greenish-blue stuff) is my go-to. I have successfully stored fuel for two years in a motorcycle tank with it. I do not leave volatiles in carburetor bowls; if the bike is going into storage, or - during summer - won't be ridden for more than a couple of weeks then the bowls are drained and the drain screws left open.

[Skinhead]

Air filter is OEM.

I have done nothing to this bike except for maintenance items. Exhaust and re jetting was all PO. I rode the bike about 12,000 with no problem until I de-smogged. I'm wondering if the carbs were set up with a vacuum leak which the de smog fixed????

It's all 6 cylinders uniformly. I will check the choke and see if it's sticking. That might explain all 6 cylinders?????

Mystery at this point.

That is exactly what I was suggesting in my post.  I don't know if you can determine jet size by removing a bowl and float assembly on one of the easily accessed carbs without removing the entire carb bank.

[CoreyP]

That is exactly what I was suggesting in my post.  I don't know if you can determine jet size by removing a bowl and float assembly on one of the easily accessed carbs without removing the entire carb bank.

I don't want to start to do something without having a clue what is going on. Looks like I'll get a chance Friday to check the air box/ air filter and inspect the choke cable(s). Those are the first two things up.

If those are fine I might just change the plugs, didn't know the the mileage interval on those. I doubt plugs are the problem though. They show a problem but probably aren't the problem.  Last up would be changing all the carb A/F settings.

Just looked up the spark plugs apparently I should change them every 8,000 miles. News to me. LOL.

Anyone find a need to run a colder plug? I ride in hot weather most of the time, on fairly long rides and I like to nail the throttle at times. I ask because I'm going to get some new plugs no matter what. 

[The emperor has no clothes]

That is exactly what I was suggesting in my post.  I don't know if you can determine jet size by removing a bowl and float assembly on one of the easily accessed carbs without removing the entire carb bank.

I don't want to start to do something without having a clue what is going on. Looks like I'll get a chance Friday to check the air box/ air filter and inspect the choke cable(s). Those are the first two things up.

If those are fine I might just change the plugs, didn't know the the mileage interval on those. I doubt plugs are the problem though. They show a problem but probably aren't the problem.  Last up would be changing all the carb A/F settings.

Just looked up the spark plugs apparently I should change them every 8,000 miles. News to me. LOL.

Anyone find a need to run a colder plug? I ride in hot weather most of the time, on fairly long rides and I like to nail the throttle at times. I ask because I'm going to get some new plugs no matter what. 

I wouldn’t run a different colder plug. I ride in hot weather a lot. I think you are on the right track with the air filter and choke linkage. It is entirely possible that someone tuned the carbs with some vacuum leak issues. When doing the desmog you could have eliminated those leaks.

[Bone]

Shop rag on top of the carbs to keep critters out ?

[rug_burn]

So:
   How does it start up-  do you need to use choke to start it?   
   How does it smell at idle, without a breeze?    Do you smell a lot of hydrocarbons (gas smell)?
   How does it run after it's warmed up?   Does it run strong but you can smell a lot of fuel smell?
   How does it start up after it's warm?   Be descriptive, please.
   Thanks-

[CoreyP]

Update. Air box and filter clean. Choke is work right. Those are not the problem.

I'm thinking the desmog must have solved some leaks or something and the bike was tuned with those leaks? That's the theory right now.

rug_burn
I went form no choke to start to now I have to play with the throttle and use the choke. Been getting slowly worse since I de smogged the bike around 6 months ago.

The smells completely rich when I use the choke on start up.

It has recently started to die on me after starting the bike up won't just idle without out me fooling with the throttle. 

Once running it runs well, idle is fine.

Again, I ride all winter long, the bike does not get stored at all. I ride more in January then I do in August. August is just brutal with the heat and humidity.

[Jims99]

Have you tried running a strong dose of berrymans B-12 through it? Check mixture screws (2.5 turns out) if that doesn’t take care of it, I would say carb rebuild. Running it all year should keep them clean, but you may have gotten bad gas.

[Pappy!]

Correct me if I am wrong but a suggestion to go to 2 turns out on the pilots was made a while ago and we still do not know where your initial setting on the carbs is. Start with the simple things!

[rug_burn]

If you gotta use the choke to start it now, and it misfires a lot, it could have gotten gunked up sitting.   If it runs with help from the choke, but dies when you take it off choke, this would confirm the gunk issue. 

[CoreyP]

Correct me if I am wrong but a suggestion to go to 2 turns out on the pilots was made a while ago and we still do not know where your initial setting on the carbs is. Start with the simple things!

When I bought the bike I fooled around with one cylinder to figure what it was set at. I know how many "Turns" the PO had the carbs sets at. The setup worked fine. Zero problems.

Guys.......6-8 months ago there was no problem with how many turns out the pilots were. Get over it.....There is a problem now. The question really is if the de-smog changed the air/fuel ratio, not the setting which hasn't change. At this point I think I need to change the A/F  settings because something has changed.

This bike is not stock so stock settings are no good to me. Thanks for the useful thoughts of checking the choke, air box, filter etc.

Spark plugs were 20% off at advanced auto so I got a new set and will check them after a put 300-400 miles on the bike. I bet they will showing a rich mix so I will adjust from there. No need for a carb rebuild or whatever.

I want to dyno this bike since I have 5 other dynos to compare to. This bike has been upgraded a few times and I have 5 different dyno reports with various things changed. I get the plugs looking right and I will be getting a dyno run in.

[Pappy!]

Listen......the reason I said something about the 2-turns out is because it works pretty well for most bikes
But, your bike will also run and idle at 3 turns and up to 3 1/2 turns out but will run rich. I have done it with mine just playing around with it.
There are tons of non stock bikes in this club. Being non stock usually affects the upper end of the RPM/power band. not idle so your pilots will probably respond well at 2 turns to start and tailor them to suit your engine from there.
We are trying to help here so your "get over it" comment was not needed.

[CoreyP]

That will be next, I'll just turn the screws down a 1/4 turn and see what happens and keep going until I see a change. When I got the bike I tested one carb out to see how it was set, going to have to go look up what I did exactly. The finial setting I have the crabs on is permanent marked on my work bench. LOL. Didn't want to forget or loss it.
 
The odd part of this is all 6 plugs are doing the same thing so it isn't a cylinder or carb by carb problem. Really thought there would be a huge mud dauber nest in the intake or something like that. but there wasn't.

Going to take a few weeks to figure this all out.