Double Darkside?

[H*GLEG]

Questioning will it fit, will it ride, will it decrease handling, will it rattle my teeth, will it be the long riding tire I'm looking for?  I'm feeling like a test pilot.  What are your thoughts?
The front Avon has a few mm left before hitting the wear bars, but it probably won't be long enough to last the entire summer.
So with the supply chain ready to cater. 
I jumped the gun and bought a Rear Commander III Cruiser in 160/70/17 for possible replacement of OEM front 150/80/17.
The tire comparison spec guide put it at 0.4 in. wider, and minimal decrease in diameter.

The of course the whole Bias tire thing with radial light truck tire in rear.
Im sure there is some insight here, fire away.
Thanks again.  Tom

[Jess from VA]

I do not know the answers you seek.  I don't think a 160 has ever been mounted in front before, at least by any who talked about it on here.  I especially like Michelins.

I assume you've looked at the fender and find room for it.  

It will probably fit the rim/wheel fine, but that would be my first question.

I think it will affect the std/tourer speedometer a bit (which is already off by 5% intentionally).

It seems likely it may make steering a mite harder, but negligible.  Steering at any speed is small movement.  Only slow steering is large movement.

If you survive and get 15K, lots of folks are going to be happy.  

[H*GLEG]

Wow Thanks Jess.  
I never thought this topic was going to be... crickets.
Off limits. Cheers for your response.
I'm really surprised it's never been claimed before.  
Everyone can't be riding stock or smaller.
I suspect its good enough close enough,
I was just trying to think outside the box.
I like to do my research, and at least try to ask true riders.
There's about a short hair for room as you know, but looks like more than 2/10" per side.
As long as I don't have to get the pliers or snips out.
Or the Bobber Begins...
I just figured 17" rim, was close enough.  
How wide is front wheel?  Is it less than the rear 5 "?
All other measurements are decreased.
Speed chart showed minimal loss also.
I figured steering would need a little more counter-steer.
But That's the best part!
These hands are for cosmetic purposes only.
Reattached in '89
As far as the surviving...
I'm already on my 32nd year of this Bonus round, been to the edge.
As Doc said, "I'm your Huckleberry."
Im probably going for the 15K, making 'em happy is TBD.
Really thinking about showin up in Billings.


Speedo Reading   Actual Speed on the OEM stock -5%,  Right 160/70/B17

20 mph (32.19 km/h)   19.52 mph (31.42 km/h)
25 mph (40.23 km/h)   24.4 mph (39.28 km/h)
30 mph (48.28 km/h)   29.29 mph (47.13 km/h)
35 mph (56.33 km/h)   34.17 mph (54.99 km/h)
40 mph (64.37 km/h)   39.05 mph (62.84 km/h)
45 mph (72.42 km/h)   43.93 mph (70.7 km/h)
50 mph (80.47 km/h)   48.81 mph (78.55 km/h)
55 mph (88.51 km/h)   53.69 mph (86.41 km/h)
60 mph (96.56 km/h)   58.57 mph (94.26 km/h)
65 mph (104.61 km/h)   63.45 mph (102.12 km/h)
70 mph (112.65 km/h)   68.33 mph (109.97 km/h)
75 mph (120.7 km/h)   73.21 mph (117.83 km/h)
80 mph (128.75 km/h)   78.09 mph (125.68 km/h)
85 mph (136.79 km/h)   82.98 mph (133.54 km/h)
90 mph (144.84 km/h)   87.86 mph (141.39 km/h)
95 mph (152.89 km/h)   92.74 mph (149.25 km/h)
100 mph (160.93 km/h)   97.62 mph (157.1 km/h)

[H*GLEG]

Crazy thing was I had the rear Michelin Commander III Touring, but when i saw
NO BIAS REAR with front radial.
I sent it back and ended up on the darkside.
Guess Im going double.

[Skinhead]

I have run a radial rear car tire with a bias ply Metzler front before with no issues.  I am currently running a 150/70-17 Bridgestone Battle Axe rear MT correct rotation and a 205/60R-16 Yokohama Avid Envigor CT on the rear.  I have another 205/60R-16 Yokohama Avid Envigor CT and a 160/70B-17 already mounted in the basement when My current tires wear out.  I've had no issues running bias front and radial rear, however  I would prefer a radial front as well if available.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I think RDKLL runs a 160 on the front of his. He turned it into a bobber and liked the look. Never heard of any problems.

[hubcapsc]

NO BIAS REAR with front radial.

By the time you've decided to run a tractor tire on the rear and a rear
motocross tire backwards on the front, you can can safely
disregard the NO BIAS REAR warning 

-Mike

[H*GLEG]

Perfect, thanks all. I knew there had to be others.

[Crackerborn]

Michilen Pilot Active was a bias tire, I ran it backwards and went through 5 on two different rides.

[Jess from VA]

Yes, the collective wisdom is that rears on front should be reverse mounted.  And bias or steel belt is irrelevant. 

This has to do with cord stacking on hard braking, a tire manufacturing issue in the way they are made and the belts laid in and overlapped.

If you look carefully at tread designs, most bike tires will shed water regardless of how mounted.  It's grabbed and thrown out the sides.

I always try to avoid riding through any deep water at 70mph anyway.    

[H*GLEG]

I'm sold on the real-world knowledge of 5 wore out backward up front.
Just trying to figure out the cord stacking and hard braking, advantage of reversal?
How does it change when front direction is reversed?

Thanks again.

[The emperor has no clothes]

I'm sold on the real-world knowledge of 5 wore out backward up front.
Just trying to figure out the cord stacking and hard braking, advantage of reversal?
How does it change when front direction is reversed?

Thanks again.

I put one on not reversed by accident once. Couldn’t notice any difference except for maybe a different sound coming from the tire.

[Skinhead]

It really doesn't matter.  A rear MC tire gets both Positive and negative torque inputs from accelerating and braking, while a front designed tire get only negative torque from braking.  The rear will perform well on the front, the front might not do as well on the rear.

[H*GLEG]

 makes sense now. 

[Crackerborn]

It really doesn't matter.  A rear MC tire gets both Positive and negative torque inputs from accelerating and braking, while a front designed tire get only negative torque from braking.  The rear will perform well on the front, the front might not do as well on the rear.

Never did any research on tire stacking but always thought that since most of the braking should be done with the front tire it made sense to mount a front darkside backwards. Obviously locking up the front in an emergency stop is never ideal. Have an occasional riding bud that mounts his front (rear) the usual rotation (as marked) on his VTX and as far as I know, has never had any issues.

[Skinhead]

It really doesn't matter.  A rear MC tire gets both Positive and negative torque inputs from accelerating and braking, while a front designed tire get only negative torque from braking.  The rear will perform well on the front, the front might not do as well on the rear.

Never did any research on tire stacking but always thought that since most of the braking should be done with the front tire it made sense to mount a front darkside backwards. Obviously locking up the front in an emergency stop is never ideal. Have an occasional riding bud that mounts his front (rear) the usual rotation (as marked) on his VTX and as far as I know, has never had any issues.

I am running double darkside with "proper" orientation.  No issues.

[H*GLEG]

 I am running double darkside with "proper" orientation.  No issues.
[/quote]

This is what I'm leaning too.
Seems like it works both ways.
I'll try to stay out of deep water at speed. 
Just seems correct rotation may increase water evacuation.

Thanks and good riding.

[Jess from VA]

Reversing rear on front explained. 

http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2009/08/23/tires-directional-arrows-explained-by-avon-tyres/

[H*GLEG]

Thank you, Jess. I needed that explanation.

From article above, "If you are using a tire that has a directional arrow for rear rotation only and for some reason you want to put it on the front, make sure it is rotating in the opposite direction so you don’t aggravate the tread splice."

[Jess from VA]

That was the "cord stacking" I was talking about in my earlier post.

The front brake (and tire) does most of the braking, like 80% (assuming the rider knows how to ride and isn't afraid of the front brake).  No reason not to use the tire in it's best healthy position.  Though plenty have not reversed it with no trouble.  But most good riders don't need pull emergency stops all the time.  But everyone does sometime. 

I had the same reluctance when I ran my only rear on front.  But I ran it reversed.

I also studied pictures of the tread on line, and then looked at it carefully when delivered, and it would shed rain fine in either direction.  (though all treads are not identical, far from it)

And if you wonder about car tires (on cars), they are an entirely different matter, mainly due to size.  No car or truck tires are front and rear specific.  Unlike bike tire design.

[H*GLEG]

you said it, it was right in front of me the whole time.  Tread pattern matches when the rear is reversed.
thanks now to mount that wide glide.