Spline seals 1997 Valkyrie Tourer --- new question

[Ron in Buffalo]

Hello - My rear tire needs replace. While I have it apart I thought I would lube the splines and change the seals. I’m looking for the seals part #’s, links, or anything related to this project. My local Honda is not very helpful because the bike is to old.  Thanks in advance.

[hubcapsc]

Read through this link if you haven't yet:

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/rear_end_service.pptx

-Mike

[98valk]

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,116786.0.html

https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,116696.40.html

So my conclusion is to make sure the U-Joint splines are correctly lubricated, to prevent the drive shaft to final drive splines aka spline coupling (SC) from wearing out. I also installed a new driveshaft to spline cup seal every other tire change.

The SC in a perfect application would have zero forward/rearward movement and would be submerged in oil which would result in zero wear and fretting. Fretting is a type of corrosion which gives that rust powder look. Is not from water intrusion. In some applications they actually glue the splines together to stop movement.

Honda provided the locking spring clip on the SC end of the drive shaft to help reduce movement of the SC, but it is still not a solid zero movement connection. So this is where the lubricated U-joint splines come into effect, thereby doing all of the movement, to reduce or actually eliminate any SC movement.

In a few of the links I provide it is stated that the SC splines should be hardened to greatly reduce wear.  Did Honda do this to the parts?, it doesn't seem like they did, since that would have been a much higher cost.

In my case I inadvertently mixed greases with different bases for the u-joint splines, by re-greasing and not cleaning off the old grease.
My fault, at the time, I didn't realize they had different bases. So what happened the greases started to dry out and not provide the easy sliding movement as needed and the SC failed in 17k miles.

For re-installing the U-Joint boot I coated the inside lips with silicone grease and it pops on with zero problems. suggest not to use a silicone spray which has petroleum products in it and other things which could degrade the boot material.

So to bring this all together, proper lubrication of the u-joint splines is extremely important and should be done every tire change to protect the SC.
This time I used moly bearing chassis grease for the U-Joint for even more friction reduction and easier sliding.

For the SC I mixed TS-70 moly paste with some high temp grease so there would be about a 50/50 moly to grease ratio as recommended by the Dan Foss pdf which is a much higher percent of moly than the 3% moly grease the Honda manual calls for.

The following documents have some very good info about SCs and lubrication requirements.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/693/fretting-wear

https://www.powertransmission.com/issues/0214/spline-couplings.pdf

https://assets.danfoss.com/documents/76142/AI152986482538en-000304.pdf

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=423609

https://gearsolutions.com/departments/tooth-tips-a-brief-overview-of-splines/

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=383504

[Ramie]

You can find the orings here.
https://redeye.ecrater.com/p/18218041/final-drive-o-rings-for-valkyrie-polyurethane

[Ron in Buffalo]

Thanks everyone. I order the seals from redeye. I got a tire and Honda moly. Waiting for the o-rings.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Thanks everyone. I order the seals from redeye. I got a tire and Honda moly. Waiting for the o-rings.

I’ve only used the regular ones from Carolina Bike. I don’t even know if they are still selling stuff. I’ve heard the poly ones from Red Eye are real durable. Keep in mind and don’t get frustrated, but some guys have had a harder time getting the wheel reinstalled.

[Ron in Buffalo]

My Bike is a 97 tourer. I took the bags off. Do I have to take the luggage rack off or can I lower it enough to get the axel out?

[Jess from VA]

My Bike is a 97 tourer. I took the bags off. Do I have to take the luggage rack off or can I lower it enough to get the axel out?

Do you mean the luggage rack or the bag racks?

On my interstates, the bags is all I need to remove.  I have to do some finagling the jack height up and down (just right) to get the axle out between the bag racks but it works.  Once the shocks are off, I lower the bike to get the axle out over the bottom of the bag racks and heat shields, and over the pipes.  Then lift it back up to pull the tire out under the fender (without removing the lower fender half).

[Ron in Buffalo]

My Bike is a 97 tourer. I took the bags off. Do I have to take the luggage rack off or can I lower it enough to get the axel out?

Do you mean the luggage rack or the bag racks?

On my interstates, the bags is all I need to remove.  I have to do some finagling the jack height up and down (just right) to get the axle out between the bag racks but it works.  Once the shocks are off, I lower the bike to get the axle out over the bottom of the bag racks and heat shields, and over the pipes.  Then lift it back up to pull the tire out under the fender (without removing the lower fender half).

Thanks for the quick response. I’ll give a try.

[Jess from VA]

Also, the fat final drive can rub the inside of the exhaust in back (lowering and raising), and some loosen up the rear exhaust hangers if that is a problem.  I just go slow, and it clears the pipes fine. 

[Chrisj CMA]

It’s better to raise the swing arm and take the axle out ABOVE the exhaust.

If you lower it it’s easy to go too low and stress the U-joint

[Ron in Buffalo]

Thanks got the tire changed and I’m going to put it back together tomorrow.

[Ron in Buffalo]

Well I got it done and thanks for everybody’s help. Putting the final drive was a nightmare but eventually it felled together. So I rebuilt the carbs last year, service final drive today, put new tires on, replace the rear shocks, put a Hartco seat on it, and bleed the clutch and brakes. And other stuff I can’t think of at the moment so I’m good to go. Going to Vintage days at Mid-Ohio this weekend so I’m ready to go.

[luftkoph]

See ya at vmd but I’ll be on my black wing, Saturday nite 1/2 mile vintage flat track is the best,hoping for good weather.

[Ron in Buffalo]

I’ll be at Ashland Fair grounds Saturday - green and ivory tourer.l with NY plates.

[luftkoph]

 

[rug_burn]

      I don't know if anybody else mentioned it, but while you have the driveshaft out, you may notice there's about a 10mm hole right next to the outer edge of the cup.  This hole can easily get plugged up with thick grease, but it's important to keep it open -  it allows the rear end oil to enter to keep those splines well lubricated.   If you use high moly content  grease on the splines, it also makes the rear end oil look real dirty;  but it's just the moly.  Personally, I just use regular, non-moly grease there... (FWIW)

[98valk]

      I don't know if anybody else mentioned it, but while you have the driveshaft out, you may notice there's about a 10mm hole right next to the outer edge of the cup.  This hole can easily get plugged up with thick grease, but it's important to keep it open -  it allows the rear end oil to enter to keep those splines well lubricated.   If you use high moly content  grease on the splines, it also makes the rear end oil look real dirty;  but it's just the moly.  Personally, I just use regular, non-moly grease there... (FWIW)

incorrect the gear oil has nothing to do with lubricating the splines. that hole is a vent hole and nothing else.
 spline life is all due to correct moly grease and almost zero movement of the spline connection via a well lubricated u-joint and new locking spring on the end of the shaft.
did u not read my posts and the links provided?