Montevideo Maru Found

[Valkorado]

https://nypost.com/2023/04/22/explorers-find-wwii-ship-sunk-with-over-1000-allied-pows/

It was a bad day in history for Australia, and the United States.  It could have been a much better outcome had the proper markings been displayed on that ship.

[da prez]

  What I have read about Japan's treatment of prisoners , it may have been a blessing in disguise. 
 I MEAN NO DIS-RESPECT. Loss of life in combat is a waste. War happens , people die.  Had the Japanese properly marked the ship , there may have been a different outcome.
                MAY ALL THOSE LOST BE AT PEACE. 

                                         da prez

[carolinarider09]

  What I have read about Japan's treatment of prisoners , it may have been a blessing in disguise. 
 I MEAN NO DIS-RESPECT. Loss of life in combat is a waste. War happens , people die.  Had the Japanese properly marked the ship , there may have been a different outcome.
                MAY ALL THOSE LOST BE AT PEACE. 

                                         da prez

100% agree with your statement sir.   I was thinking on the same line but you stated it well.   

MAY ALL THOSE LOST BE AT PEACE!

[old2soon]

    I made it to Japan the first time in 1964. And I also Remember this J G-single silver bar-giving a Required lecture even IF you'd been to Japan before. Should you be stopped and detained and mayhaps jailed by Japanese authorities and a sentence was imposed you Would do the entire bid no matter how long Then when Japan released you it was into the waiting arms  Of U S N Personnel. And THEN you would do whatever stretch of time The Navy thought you deserved and after said time most likely end up with a Bad Conduct discharge and NO Benefits.
     And I Agree with daprez-that ship being torpedod and sunk just may have been a blessing in disguise. May those lost Be BLESSED FOREVER and EVER!  RIDE SAFE.

[Skinhead]

From the books I read written by survivors of the Bataan Death March, the Prez is right on.  The POWs were transported in holds with no food, no sanitary facilities (except maybe a bucket for 100s of men), and no water.  Survivors wrote of licking the condensation of the the metal walls of the ship for water.  Men were die and sometimes were killed and others would drink their blood for moisture.  Those that survived the trip to Japan were then forced to   perform slave labor in the mines in Japan.  After reading those accounts, I had a hard time feeling sorry for the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  War is hell, and many humans are anything but humane.

[Willow]

From the article:

No efforts will be made to remove human remains ...

Perhaps someone better prepared to know could help me understand.  After 80 years at the bottom of the ocean are there any human remains to not be removed?

[Jess from VA]

I had a hard time feeling sorry for the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

No one who understands the conduct of the Japanese in Asia (prewar), and throughout WWII could feel sorry about this.  Curtis LeMay's conventional bombing all over the Japanese islands before the two nukes, killed many many more than the nukes did.  Loss of civilian life may be regrettable, but all sides targeted civilian population during that war.  Bombing only military infrastructure could not work since there was really no such thing as precision bombing from altitude.  So the idea was to break the general population's will to continue supporting war, but that didn't really work either (the British, Germans and Japanese populations soldiered on).  A land invasion of Japan was estimated by military leadership to cost us a million men, and the Japanese losses would have been multiple times that.  Nuking Japan twice, bringing them (the Emperor) to surrender, saved millions of US and Japanese lives.

[Willow]

...  Nuking Japan twice, bringing them (the Emperor) to surrender, saved millions of US and Japanese lives. 

bomb

In fairness we nuked them once to see what could be done.  They didn't react.  We nuked them a second time to show them what could continue.

The bombings weren't done simply to kill civilians, ever.  The bombings were done to neutralize manufacturing in support of war efforts.  I speak of our bombings and likely those of some other forces.  Hiroshima and Nagasaki meet the criteria of within reach and centers of war supporting manufacture.

[Jess from VA]

During the Second World War, Allied air forces dropped nearly two million tons of bombs on Germany, destroying some 60 cities, killing more than half a million German citizens (and 80 thousand US Airmen).
Over 70 percent of the largest German cities had their urban core destroyed.  Worst cases: Dresden, Cologne, Essen, Dortmund, Hanover, Nuremberg, Chemnitz. 

Approximately 410,000 German civilians were killed in the strategic bombing.  Within the 1937 borders of Germany, industrial capacity was greater at the end of the war than at the beginning.  British and American raids often deliberately targeted the highly flammable medieval and early modern city centers, which had no military value.  The raids intensified in the final months of the war, when Germany’s defeat was effectively inevitable.

[Willow]

During the Second World War, Allied air forces dropped nearly two million tons of bombs on Germany, destroying some 60 cities, killing more than half a million German citizens (and 80 thousand US Airmen).
Over 70 percent of the largest German cities had their urban core destroyed.  Worst cases: Dresden, Cologne, Essen, Dortmund, Hanover, Nuremberg, Chemnitz. 

Approximately 410,000 German civilians were killed in the strategic bombing.  Within the 1937 borders of Germany, industrial capacity was greater at the end of the war than at the beginning.  British and American raids often deliberately targeted the highly flammable medieval and early modern city centers, which had no military value.  The raids intensified in the final months of the war, when Germany’s defeat was effectively inevitable.

I disagree with your alleged understanding of history on multiple points.

[bassman]

Unless this happened more than once (sinking of Japanese ship transporting POW’s) this may have been the ship Ken was on and survived.   Considered “the luckiest man alive” for many years having survived Bataan, ship sinking and atomic blast during WWII.

https://deislerfuneralhome.com/tribute/details/7110/Kenneth-Rice/

*I’m thinking this was NOT the ship Ken was on so this type of event use have happened more than once

[Jess from VA]

From the web:

Between 12 and 18 September 1944, Allied forces sank three Japanese steamships that were carrying supplies to support the Japanese war effort.  But unknown to the Allies at the time, these ships were also carrying Allied prisoners of war (POWs) and Javanese slave labourers (romushas).  The Allies sank other POW transport ships during September 1944, but the sinking of the Kachidoki Maru and the Rakuyo Maru on 12 September led to the first eyewitness accounts being given by former POWs to Allied administrations about conditions in camps on the Thailand-Burma railway, whilst the sinking of the Junyo Maru on 18 September was one of the deadliest maritime disasters of the Second World War.  The two sinkings, only six days apart, resulted in the deaths of over 7,000 men.

[scooperhsd]

THe whole point to Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to DELIVER the shock needed to force the military Government of Japan to "Unconditional Surrender". That's it. No matter what else is stated - this was the ultimate goal. Even at that - it was Hirohito who told the generals and admirals to end the war, when before he had been a non-factor in the way the war was run.

Yes - 1 million casualties + was the estimate for just the Allies (US and Great Britain). We would have continued until well into 1946 before finally finishing, and Russia would have been able to take much more of China and maybe even force Japan into the same kind of split occupation that Germany was in.

[bassman]

From the web:

Between 12 and 18 September 1944, Allied forces sank three Japanese steamships that were carrying supplies to support the Japanese war effort.  But unknown to the Allies at the time, these ships were also carrying Allied prisoners of war (POWs) and Javanese slave labourers (romushas).  The Allies sank other POW transport ships during September 1944, but the sinking of the Kachidoki Maru and the Rakuyo Maru on 12 September led to the first eyewitness accounts being given by former POWs to Allied administrations about conditions in camps on the Thailand-Burma railway, whilst the sinking of the Junyo Maru on 18 September was one of the deadliest maritime disasters of the Second World War.  The two sinkings, only six days apart, resulted in the deaths of over 7,000 men.

THANKS for the clarification Jess !

[carolinarider09]

THe whole point to Hiroshima and Nagasaki was to DELIVER the shock needed to force the military Government of Japan to "Unconditional Surrender". That's it. No matter what else is stated - this was the ultimate goal. Even at that - it was Hirohito who told the generals and admirals to end the war, when before he had been a non-factor in the way the war was run.

Yes - 1 million casualties + was the estimate for just the Allies (US and Great Britain). We would have continued until well into 1946 before finally finishing, and Russia would have been able to take much more of China and maybe even force Japan into the same kind of split occupation that Germany was in.

That is exactly what I remember and was taught and read.  I am sort of a history buff and I remember the words in the first paragraph. 

[scooperhsd]

I spent ALOT of Jr High and High School reading history books on WWII during class (usually) - and still managing to keep up with what was happening in class. (Can you tell I was BORED ?!?!? - Academically - I was ready for 9th grade before starting 7th grade - but socially I really needed the extra 2 years).