Actor/Motorcyclist Treat Williams Takes Fatal Hit

[Valkorado]

Another brother erased by a cager.  He was a good actor.  R.I.P.

https://mol.im/a/12194647

[The emperor has no clothes]

It’s such a commonplace way to go on a bike. For drivers to turn in front and later state “they never saw them” should be criminally liable. But it looks like again not much will happen.

[Chrisj CMA]

Criminally liable. That’s most likely BS. Ok if he was racing, drunk, high or otherwise committing a crime while driving yes!  If it was an accident you want criminal charges?  If it was the SUV drivers fault he will have consequences but making a mistake while driving legally does not make one a criminal.

[Oss]

sad, but sometimes an accident is an accident


nothing more

It is why for over 8 yrs I have had a hit-air jacket  If you have ever seen me on the bike you have seen it

1/4 second after flying off the bike the thing is fully inflated inside the ce armor hellping to
 prevent rib/lung/spleen/heart trauma  They also make a vest with same protection except of course the ce armor in shoulder, elbow and back

It is not perfect but life is not perfect  It was under 600 when i bought it

After breaking multiple ribs is when I bought it  thankfully never had to test it

To each their own level of being prepared

[The emperor has no clothes]

Criminally liable. That’s most likely BS. Ok if he was racing, drunk, high or otherwise committing a crime while driving yes!  If it was an accident you want criminal charges?  If it was the SUV drivers fault he will have consequences but making a mistake while driving legally does not make one a criminal.

Maybe criminally liable is not the correct term. As I understand it, the driver was let go with no tickets or charges. I think there should be some of them. To say it was just an accident seems to trivialize the mistake, in my opinion. Should it be involuntary manslaughter or a $200 fine for wreckless driving ? I don’t know. Probably somewhere in the middle.

[Oldfishguy]

From a short article I read, this is a pretty common accident involving motorcycles; a cage pulls out in front of a motorcycle because they simply did not see it.  Since the Hurt Report of 1981 this has been a common thread of findings.  We are simply difficult to see at a glance sometimes.  Statistically in Minnesota about 50% of our deaths involve another vehicle.  The stats do not say exactly how this occurs, but . . .

I’ve added a few extra lights to my street bikes.  I run a few vintage machines and the incandescent headlights are simply inadequate.  The low power draw of LED’s now simply make a lot more visibility possible.  And then triangle them if one can as much as possible; watch a modern train come at you and you will see what I mean.  This gives the motorcycle a 3D look to it and better depth perception for opposing vehicles.  At night, these lights are actually a bit too bright for oncoming vehicles so the LED’s are wired in to the bright light wire harness only.  And run with brights on during the day with the LED’s.

I’ve done my Valkyrie Interstate with extra LED’s up front and it adds A LOT of visibility.  Let me do some looking on the products I used and I’ll post a how to at some point.  But here is a 1971 CB500F with some added LED’s.  Convertible back to factory stock in 10 minutes if desired.  Pretty easy to do and under $100.

[Jess from VA]

If a cager pulls across a bike's path (or another cage for that matter), when the bike has clear right of way and the cager a duty to yield, and this is the direct cause of the accident.  And the accident causes death.  Then even if it is only simple negligence (with no aggravating drinking, drugging, texting, speeding, yada to add a criminal state of mind) then it is still a crime of negligent homicide (or vehicular manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter) in most states, and generally carries only a 1-4 year max sentence, and money.  This is the lowest rung (degree) of criminal homicide (and the low sentence shows it).

This sentence can be enhanced if it is a repeat felony under recidivist laws.

This happens to be one of the very few criminal statutes that makes only simple negligence a crime.  Most all criminal laws (rape, murder, arson, robbery) require some kind of guilty mind (criminal intent) as an essential element of proof of the crime.  The reason is simply that way too many people die on the highways from simple negligence to let it slide.  

It has always been a tort (civil wrong), for which family could sue for wrongful death (though that only results in money damages, not prison).  Given insurance coverage, I would estimate that most of these negligent killers get sued on top of any criminal charge.  Usually right after the criminal conviction.  The criminal conviction itself may not be admissible in the subsequent civil trial, but the civil attorneys are able to get a perfect primer for their trial, from the criminal proceedings and evidence.

I think the "I never saw him" defense is a piece of sh!t.    We're always running lights.  With no other extenuating circumstance(s) (like pouring rain), I think "I never saw him" is essentially an admission of guilt to the crime.  

[Jersey mike]

Hmm…many years ago (1986?) I had an accident where a guy pullled out of a parking lot to make a left across 2 lanes of traffic, however he stopped mid-turn and blocked both lanes of traffic. He was driving an at the time new Ford Crown Vic which was a big car and did block almost 2 full lanes. It was summertime and approaching dusk. He claimed he never saw me and I was on a ‘83 Wing with accent lights up front. I hit him and flew close to 60 feet and landed in the oncoming traffic lanes. Was taken to hospital, they only found a broken toe, but I do associate that accident with issues I have with my neck and back to this day. I believe the driver was issued a careless driving ticket.

All that being said this may come down to eyesight issues. I’ve lived with my wife’s driving for 30 years and she has terrible depth perception and goes through front brake pads like nothing I’ve ever seen before. How she hasn’t rear ended someone after all these years is beyond me, but I do keep the pads and rotors inspected and as fresh as possibly when it’s in for service or oil changes. She is a very good driver…locally and on highways/interstates and such. She commutes about 150 miles a day and lucky for us, there’s EZ-Pass for tolls which means little stopping at toll booths, back when she had to stop and chuck a quarter in the box, it seemed like we’d be putting on 2-3 sets of pads a uear with a set of rotors thrown in as well.

Over the years I’ve made it clear to her SHE needs to be vigilant about looking for and being completely aware anytime a bike or something that may be a bike approaching or in the vicinity of jer on the roadways because you never know where a bike will come from. Even if you think you see something glistening in the distance, you need to assume a bike may be approaching and closing rates of bikes approaching from behind may be faster than you think at the time.

Vision tests are important but they really just check if 1) you can actually see and 2) if you can read street signs and letters and 3) there is no peripheral vision check either. There really should be a vision check every X # of years.

Added:

One thing I’d also like to add is what I find to be an issue and that’s is turn signals. Unfortunately they are usually places in the same plane as a bike’s headlight which (the directionals) are not very bright and sometimes not very visible because a drivers focus may be just on the headlight and the light of the turn signal can be *obstructed* by the brightness of the headlight or other factors at the time of day/night such as natural lighting and also whatever other ambient lighting is happening such as road glare, or lights from other vehicles especially at night. I really don’t know who to blame on that…the DOT? What specs does the DOT mandate and how bike manufacturers style their bikes for rider safety and accident prevention.

Many of the new bikes and racer type/style bikes have very small aerodynamic style directionals which may be LED at this time but are still very small and quite often not very visible or draw attention to the turn signal itself, especially from a distance. Also, many of those bike owners use custom lenses which darken the lamps front and rear which IMO should be illegal, I also see this on cars/trucks where people customize their lenses front and rear with darker aftermarket products.

[old2soon]

      I KNOW I've made mention of this before BUT here it are AGAN! I have accessory lights mounted on my I/S crash bars and those brighter Sylvania bulbs the L E D tail light mod and Thee good sized Flags mounted on the trunk rack a WHITE helmet and a DAYGLO Green jacket and yet I've still heard those fateful famous FATAL words-SORRY MAN DIDN'T SEE YOU! 
      I enjoyed a lot of his roles on Chicago Fire-Kelly Severides Father and a some what recurring role as a former partner of Frank Reagan on Blue Bloods.
      But as we've taken note of even being a fairly successful actor did NOT make him immune from what we RIDERS refer to as cage stupidity and other words we know and may have used but not needed or desired here. And while I was NOT there I dare say he was having a Good RIDE and then not so much.  R I P Mr. Williams.  RIDE SAFE.

[Ramie]

Many of the new bikes and racer type/style bikes have very small aerodynamic style directionals which may be LED at this time but are still very small and quite often not very visible or draw attention to the turn signal itself, especially from a distance. Also, many of those bike owners use custom lenses which darken the lamps front and rear which IMO should be illegal, I also see this on cars/trucks where people customize their lenses front and rear with darker aftermarket products.

It's been my observation for a number of years that using directional signals has become optional and I no longer believe them.  You have to watch how people drive, where they look and how they position their vehicle, how they speed up or slow down.  If a LEO wants to stop you they'll claim you didn't put on your signal soon enough other wise they seem to ignore this infraction.

[Willow]

As to the discussion of, "I didn't see him," it's not just whether they are ABLE to see but specifically what they are looking for.  A person looking down the road to see if there's a CAR or TRUCK coming my physically see a motorcycle but not have his (her) mind register it.

As to whether a driver caused an accident that took the life of a motorcyclist, almost all, if not all, states have laws addressing criminal negligence.  They are seldom applied as the prosecutors and leo's often identify with the mistakes made that result in a motorcyclist's death or injury.

[t-man403]

From a short article I read, this is a pretty common accident involving motorcycles; a cage pulls out in front of a motorcycle because they simply did not see it.  Since the Hurt Report of 1981 this has been a common thread of findings.  We are simply difficult to see at a glance sometimes.  Statistically in Minnesota about 50% of our deaths involve another vehicle.  The stats do not say exactly how this occurs, but . . .

I’ve added a few extra lights to my street bikes.  I run a few vintage machines and the incandescent headlights are simply inadequate.  The low power draw of LED’s now simply make a lot more visibility possible.  And then triangle them if one can as much as possible; watch a modern train come at you and you will see what I mean.  This gives the motorcycle a 3D look to it and better depth perception for opposing vehicles.  At night, these lights are actually a bit too bright for oncoming vehicles so the LED’s are wired in to the bright light wire harness only.  And run with brights on during the day with the LED’s.

I’ve done my Valkyrie Interstate with extra LED’s up front and it adds A LOT of visibility.  Let me do some looking on the products I used and I’ll post a how to at some point.  But here is a 1971 CB500F with some added LED’s.  Convertible back to factory stock in 10 minutes if desired.  Pretty easy to do and under $100.

Sometimes a photo isn’t accurate. I will say this though……having the driving lights to close to the signal lights, makes seeing the signal lights impossible, especially if the driving lights are not aimed properly. Even when they are aimed, the intensity of the led can be bad enough.

[Oldfishguy]

[/quote]

Sometimes a photo isn’t accurate. I will say this though……having the driving lights to close to the signal lights, makes seeing the signal lights impossible, especially if the driving lights are not aimed properly. Even when they are aimed, the intensity of the led can be bad enough.
[/quote]

Great observation!  And yes, the theory is a work in progress; it is just difficult to relocate the extra lights without engine guards of some sort.  Fortunately, the Valkyrie has a built in mounting point lower and away from the turn signals.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[98valk]

Sometimes a photo isn’t accurate. I will say this though……having the driving lights to close to the signal lights, makes seeing the signal lights impossible, especially if the driving lights are not aimed properly. Even when they are aimed, the intensity of the led can be bad enough.
[/quote]

Great observation!  And yes, the theory is a work in progress; it is just difficult to relocate the extra lights without engine guards of some sort.  Fortunately, the Valkyrie has a built in mounting point lower and away from the turn signals.

Thanks for your thoughts.
[/quote]

Triangle light pattern.
just replace locomotive with motorcycle

The triangular pattern:
1) A light pattern that a would distinguish a locomotive from other vehicles
2) A pattern that aided in speed of approach of the oncoming locomotive.

"It was stated that an individual has an increased perception of the velocity of an approaching locomotive by using a special arrangements of lights such as a triangular. The larger changes in the angular size of the 3 point triangular pattern aid in the information needed to make judgments at crossings."

http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/dc_lts.htm

https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/8649

[Jess from VA]

Triangle of forward lights is the way.   

[MarkT]

This is going to be a long post.

I was hit and luckily survived - by a left-turner FTY (failed to yield) sleeping driver on 8/3/70, at dusk on state highway 32 "Memorial Highway" entering Racine Wi.  I contributed to the "accident" by speeding 70 in a 55, riding my Ducati, high beam on but no other spot lights. In a hurry because I was working at Belle City foundry, had forgot my lunch on swing shift, it was my favorite BLT's and I ran home to get it.  She was in a '70 Buick ghetto sled, not sure of the model but it was a full size land yacht.  I hit her in the passenger front wheel, bounced off the windshield, took the wiper into my RIGHT kneecap, bent the frame and totaled both vehicles.  If she had been one foot further I would have hit the roofline and there would be no MarkT custom pipes.  My gas tank was caved in and had the seam imprint of my jeans in the steel - it launched me over the hoodline while my legs folded the handlebars forward. She said I "came out of nowhere" and when her car jumped sideways 10 feet she said she "thought she hit a dog".  I woke up on the operating table, was hospitalized for a week.  My worst damage was a broken leg and severe concussion.   I was 19, tough as nails and very lucky to survive.  I kept my license current with bike endorsement for many years, so I could borrow friend's bikes (was drafted into the service, so enlisted to have some say on it) but I was always so paranoid I gave that up.  I didn't own a bike for 27 years after that. I said if I ever ride again it will be the biggest bike I can get, and it will be VERY visible with lights on the front and a HUGE profile.

Enter the Valkyrie in 1997.  I put Aircraft landing lights on the front in a triangle pattern, and upgraded the headlight to 130/90 halogen.  Added 2 more 60w spots.  Upgraded the alternator with a 1.3kW one for Gold Wings to provide the power.  Lights up the road for a measured half mile.  Wired it with relays so I run with the low beam, when I hit high beam because someone is going to cross my path, the 130 & A/C lights come on & I MELT THEIR RETINAS.  Added a fire truck airhorn - incredibly loud. OK overreaction? - I don't think so after dealing with texters and otherwise sleeping cagers.  

Carl is right about people not looking for bikes - their brains are programmed for cages and trucks - they can look right at you and pull out anyway - I have more stories about that.  But staying on topic for now.

Now what about turn signal visibility.  What about leaving the turn signal on?

Let's apply some logic to this.

Talking about the front signals, and drivers in front of you, oncoming or on a side street.  If you accidentally leave the turn signal blinking and they see it, it's reasonable for someone to turn in front of you  or pull out from the side street.  You told them you're turning.  

What if it's on, you are turning, and they can't see it?  So they wait for you to pass but you instead slowed and turned. Hmm they will get pissed you turned without signalling.  OK at least they didn't turn in front of you.

If your turn signal is on, they see it, and you turn. No harm, no foul.  As it should be.

What if your turn signal is on in error, and you don't turn, and they don't see it?  They may think you are continuing straight since they don't see your wrong signal, so they wait, don't pull out or cross in front of you.

The fact is, if your front signal is not very visible, that's a good thing for your safety.  I'm not coming up with a case where misinterpreting your signal, if it's not seen from the front, is dangerous for you.

On the other hand, you absolutely need to be visible from the rear.  You need very bright signals in the back, running, turning, and braking.  And watch your mirrors with the bike in gear.

I deliberately have my front turns washed out by five brilliant white lights. And my rear corner marker lights are LED arrays, wired for run-brake-turn.  With a radiantz 124 LED taillight, and my custom Highlighter also wired with run-brake-turn.  And watch the mirrors always while stopped.

OK so is this making sense?  Or do you figure I'm FOS.

[Oldfishguy]

Triangle of forward lights is the way.   

Perfect example.

[Oldfishguy]

This is going to be a long post.

I was hit and luckily survived - by a left-turner FTY (failed to yield) sleeping driver on 8/3/70, at dusk on state highway 32 "Memorial Highway" entering Racine Wi.  I contributed to the "accident" by speeding 70 in a 55, riding my Ducati, high beam on but no other spot lights. In a hurry because I was working at Belle City foundry, had forgot my lunch on swing shift, it was my favorite BLT's and I ran home to get it.  She was in a '70 Buick ghetto sled, not sure of the model but it was a full size land yacht.  I hit her in the passenger front wheel, bounced off the windshield, took the wiper into my RIGHT kneecap, bent the frame and totaled both vehicles.  If she had been one foot further I would have hit the roofline and there would be no MarkT custom pipes.  My gas tank was caved in and had the seam imprint of my jeans in the steel - it launched me over the hoodline while my legs folded the handlebars forward. She said I "came out of nowhere" and when her car jumped sideways 10 feet she said she "thought she hit a dog".  I woke up on the operating table, was hospitalized for a week.  My worst damage was a broken leg and severe concussion.   I was 19, tough as nails and very lucky to survive.  I kept my license current with bike endorsement for many years, so I could borrow friend's bikes (was drafted into the service, so enlisted to have some say on it) but I was always so paranoid I gave that up.  I didn't own a bike for 27 years after that. I said if I ever ride again it will be the biggest bike I can get, and it will be VERY visible with lights on the front and a HUGE profile.

Enter the Valkyrie in 1997.  I put Aircraft landing lights on the front in a triangle pattern, and upgraded the headlight to 130/90 halogen.  Added 2 more 60w spots.  Upgraded the alternator with a 1.3kW one for Gold Wings to provide the power.  Lights up the road for a measured half mile.  Wired it with relays so I run with the low beam, when I hit high beam because someone is going to cross my path, the 130 & A/C lights come on & I MELT THEIR RETINAS.  Added a fire truck airhorn - incredibly loud. OK overreaction? - I don't think so after dealing with texters and otherwise sleeping cagers.  

Carl is right about people not looking for bikes - their brains are programmed for cages and trucks - they can look right at you and pull out anyway - I have more stories about that.  But staying on topic for now.

Now what about turn signal visibility.  What about leaving the turn signal on?

Let's apply some logic to this.

Talking about the front signals, and drivers in front of you, oncoming or on a side street.  If you accidentally leave the turn signal blinking and they see it, it's reasonable for someone to turn in front of you  or pull out from the side street.  You told them you're turning.  

What if it's on, you are turning, and they can't see it?  So they wait for you to pass but you instead slowed and turned. Hmm they will get pissed you turned without signalling.  OK at least they didn't turn in front of you.

If your turn signal is on, they see it, and you turn. No harm, no foul.  As it should be.

What if your turn signal is on in error, and you don't turn, and they don't see it?  They may think you are continuing straight since they don't see your wrong signal, so they wait, don't pull out or cross in front of you.

The fact is, if your front signal is not very visible, that's a good thing for your safety.  I'm not coming up with a case where misinterpreting your signal, if it's not seen from the front, is dangerous for you.

On the other hand, you absolutely need to be visible from the rear.  You need very bright signals in the back, running, turning, and braking.  And watch your mirrors with the bike in gear.

I deliberately have my front turns washed out by five brilliant white lights. And my rear corner marker lights are LED arrays, wired for run-brake-turn.  With a radiantz 124 LED taillight, and my custom Highlighter also wired with run-brake-turn.  And watch the mirrors always while stopped.

OK so is this making sense?  Or do you figure I'm FOS.

Admittedly, I've had the same thoughts.  Just didn't want to put them out there publicly; I think your spot on though.  The problem comes though when a number of cyclist set their bikes up this way and it becomes an industry issue. If a handful of us are doing this, no big deal.  If it becomes an industry norm we will see pushback of some sort. 

With your history I can see why your doing this (and a BLT was a good reason for the run   ).  Pretty easy to say most of us at this point have come at least close to getting smacked, myself included.   

I say, light them up folks . . . be illuminated.

[Oldfishguy]

Sometimes a photo isn’t accurate. I will say this though……having the driving lights to close to the signal lights, makes seeing the signal lights impossible, especially if the driving lights are not aimed properly. Even when they are aimed, the intensity of the led can be bad enough.

Great observation!  And yes, the theory is a work in progress; it is just difficult to relocate the extra lights without engine guards of some sort.  Fortunately, the Valkyrie has a built in mounting point lower and away from the turn signals.

Thanks for your thoughts.
[/quote]

Triangle light pattern.
just replace locomotive with motorcycle

The triangular pattern:
1) A light pattern that a would distinguish a locomotive from other vehicles
2) A pattern that aided in speed of approach of the oncoming locomotive.

"It was stated that an individual has an increased perception of the velocity of an approaching locomotive by using a special arrangements of lights such as a triangular. The larger changes in the angular size of the 3 point triangular pattern aid in the information needed to make judgments at crossings."

http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/dc_lts.htm

https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/8649
[/quote]

Awesome!

A number of years ago I was doing an academic piece on lights and asked the train industry for data on why they switched over and had no replies to my questions . . . and you found it.

[Jess from VA]

One of my Interstates came with these caliper mounted Motolights, but man are they spendy.





https://motolight.com/product/light-set-caliper-mount/

[Willow]

... but man are they spendy.   

LOL!  So is a few weeks in the hospital.   

[Avanti]

As you approach an intersection, making some movement side to side, will help make you and your motorcycle more visible.

[98valk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU

The SMIDSY, a pilot episode in a mini series of Motorcycle Safety videos. This accident is easily avoidable, in order to understand why they occur, riders need to be trained to spot tell-tale signs and know how to deal with these situations

[Oldfishguy]

So, this is what I have done. Still not great, but better. The LED’s have a different color to them, and are inexpensive.

The under trunk LED is older and there are better systems out now, but it flashes for the first 5 seconds of brake application. I will sit at a light and if a vehicle approaches from the rear I will release the brakes and then reapply to initiate the flashers.










https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Headlight-Waterproof-Off-road-Vehicle/dp/B07SSS7Y98?pd_rd_w=aiXfH&content-id=amzn1.sym.b854a5c2-4475-41f8-a6d4-df92b2868104&pf_rd_p=b854a5c2-4475-41f8-a6d4-df92b2868104&pf_rd_r=8M4MGMG82P7RS7WQ3W67&pd_rd_wg=9zVCK&pd_rd_r=c4d916fd-5770-4b5c-8297-ab7361f33bdc&pd_rd_i=B07SSS7Y98&psc=1&ref_=pd_basp_bia_rpt_ba_s_11_sc

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[Jess from VA]

As you approach an intersection, making some movement side to side, will help make you and your motorcycle more visible.

Excellent advice, and I do this regularly.

When I see stopped cross street cars rolling/creeping forward (itching to turn out in front of me), I'll weave the bike (lights) toward them and sometimes hit my brights.  That usually produces a full stop, but not always.

On a divided two lane, (though I generally keep right), I will move over into the left passing lane, so cross street people pulling out don't do it right in front of me.  Past the intersection, I get back right again.

If I'm riding the right lane and see a vehicle passing (in the mirror),  I'll get over near the edge white line, to give them and me (extra) room.

When I'm moving to pass the vehicle ahead, I aim my headlights in their driver's side view mirror to let them know I'm coming while overtaking.  But as I pass, I move to the extreme left of the lane, to give them and me (extra) room. 

And I generally am moving back and forth from the inside to the outside of my lane (the two tire tracks), either to see better ahead, or to give me space from other vehicles.