Can’t imagine the horror at 13,000’ below the surface

[Jersey mike]

If any has read the reports of the submersible that is currently lost below the surface of the Atlantic on a tour of the Titanic, I cannot imagine a good outcome. Many reports say it was most likely an implosion but there’s hope it was mechanical failure and recovery may be possible if anyone can get there within the 96 hour window.

It’s hard to imagine the scenario if they are all alive the fear and anxiety they are going through. From what I’ve read implosion would have been so fast none would have known what happened or would have suffered.

I’m not an ocean going person but just suppose there wasn’t an implosion and just mechanical failure(s) I can’t believe they are just sitting in one place and haven’t drifted with the current possibly miles from the Titanic site unless they are actually on the ocean floor.

Maybe now people will learn to just leave well enough alone and stop the tourist shows at this site.

May God have mercy and hoping on some good news.

[Tx Bohemian]

Yeah, I just heard about this, truly frightening!

If they're still in this thing hoping for rescue that has to be unimaginable!

I too am not an ocean type person, not fond of the beach (except the bikini part) but if I knew this submersible trip was safe, with a backup plan, it would be interesting.
However, I can think of a lot of other things I'd spend $250k on!

[Hook#3287]

It seems the titanic has claimed 5 more lives.

I hope not, but doesn't look good.

Just don't understand the need to go down that deep in the ocean to view a ship that caused so much pain.

Getting data or knowledge is one thing and I believe that was done with unmanned vehicles (maybe not, don't remember) but to go "just because" seems dangerous.

Guess I don't possess that "adventure" gene that others have.

Also not considering climbing Mt  Everest.

[Jess from VA]

I'm not climbing (spelunking) into one of those river caves either.

[carolinarider09]

Just saw this on the news this morning as well.  One ex navy type was being interviewed and he said that it probable that the anxiety caused by the event would reduce that "96 hours" to something more like "72 hours".   

So, it does not look good for the five "explorers".   But offering prayers for their safe recovery.

As for "under the sea stuff" having served on a nuclear sub it was no big deal. Close the hatches, keep thing moving along. 

Just one note, I don't remember the hull thickness but maybe five or seven inches.  When we did our submergence to "test depth", some of the people in the know strung a piece of string from one side of the hull to the other so that it stretched tight across the passage way before the dive.  the "droop" in the string at test depth was amazing.  Demonstrates that the hull actually compresses, in case there was doubt.   

[98valk]

Just saw this on the news this morning as well.  One ex navy type was being interviewed and he said that it probable that the anxiety caused by the event would reduce that "96 hours" to something more like "72 hours".   

So, it does not look good for the five "explorers".   But offering prayers for their safe recovery.

As for "under the sea stuff" having served on a nuclear sub it was no big deal. Close the hatches, keep thing moving along. 

Just one note, I don't remember the hull thickness but maybe five or seven inches.  When we did our submergence to "test depth", some of the people in the know strung a piece of string from one side of the hull to the other so that it stretched tight across the passage way before the dive.  the "droop" in the string at test depth was amazing.  Demonstrates that the hull actually compresses, in case there was doubt.   

our subs use HY-80 and HY-100 steel. Don't remember thickness that is used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HY-80

[Serk]

I get the logic of using as many off the shelf components as possible, but..... Gotta admit using a cheap video game controller and the only control mechanism for a craft going that deep doesn't exactly inspire confidence...

Nice waiver they all signed though!

https://kotaku.com/titanic-submarine-missing-logitech-controller-oceangate-1850555699

Short video of the waiver and the controls here, from above link:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1670931677013524487

Longer video about this operation here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29co_Hksk6o


Edit to add - just saw news that Stockton Rush, the CEO of the company and the main non-reporter dude in the above videos, is on board the lost sub.

[Jersey mike]

I get the logic of using as many off the shelf components as possible, but..... Gotta admit using a cheap video game controller and the only control mechanism for a craft going that deep doesn't exactly inspire confidence...

Nice waiver they all signed though!

https://kotaku.com/titanic-submarine-missing-logitech-controller-oceangate-1850555699

Short video of the waiver and the controls here, from above link:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1670931677013524487

Longer video about this operation here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29co_Hksk6o


Edit to add - just saw news that Stockton Rush, the CEO of the company and the main non-reporter dude in the above videos, is on board the lost sub.

Just watched the one video from above. We have similar controllers in the house, could you imagine if it’s just the fact someone forgot to charge the controller or put in fresh batteries.  

May God have mercy on their souls and still wishing for a miraculous recovery.

[Serk]

I'm hopeful they find them alive.

I'm hoping I'm wrong.

But looking more and more like this is yet another example of what happens when ya' use DEI instead of a meritocracy for hiring purposes..... 

"When I started the business, one of the things you'll find, there are other sub operators out there but they typically have gentlemen who are ex-military submariners and they uh, you'll see a whole bunch of 50 year old white guys. I wanted our team to be younger, to be inspirational and I'm not going to inspire a 16-year-old to go pursue marine technology but a 25-year-old you know who's a subpilot or a platform operator or one of our techs can be inspirational, So we've really tried to to get very intelligent, motivated, younger individuals involved because we're doing things that are completely new."

"We're taking approaches that are used largely in the aerospace industry, is related to safety and some of the the preponderance of checklists things we do for risk assessments and things like that, that are more aviation related than ocean related and we can train people to do that. We can train someone to pilot the sub, we use a game controller so anybody can drive the sub."


And then there's this whole angle:

https://heavy.com/news/david-lochridge/

[Serk]

Looking like it ended very VERY quickly for the men aboard.....

"'Debris field' discovered in search for Titanic sub contains its 'rear cover and landing frame' which indicates 'catastrophic implosion', say experts"

"'The only saving grace is that it would have been immediate, literally in milliseconds and the men would have no idea what was happening,' David Mearns, a friend of two of the men on board, said during an appearance on Sky News in the UK this evening. "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12223805/Debris-field-discovered-search-area-near-Titanic.html

[Patrick]

I guess it has just been found. No survivors. 

[carolinarider09]

I have seen several comments, elsewhere, about the loss of the submarine.   Some on places like Facebook (Yes I know, but several "friends" and family monitor there as well) some on news programs.  

It would seem, given the information I have seen, that it was a catastrophic mechanical failure of the submarine's hull.   But that is conjecture. We will never know for sure, I am afraid.  

Some have made fun of those taking the trip or chastised them for taking the "chance".  I will not do that.  They may live their lives as they wish and only have to answer to higher authority when that life ends.  

I look at them as explorers.  Similar to those who traveled to this continent in the 15th century.  Anyone believe that journey was without major hazards that would have to overcome?  Not me.

I hope their families can overcome the loss.  And yes, we will all learn from this.  


Update: I just heard on Newmax that several days ago the United States Navy "heard" a major noise in the area the sub were the submersible was excepted to be.  The station that heard the noise was one that was on line for monitoring for "foreign" submersible craft in and near some places.   The noise was reported to the appropriate authorities.

I did a search and could not confirm that from looking on line, but I believe that our Navy is monitoring for "nosies" and stuff like that 24/7 and would have heard the submersibles catastrophic  implosion which is what has been reported.

[Jersey mike]

I have seen several comments, elsewhere, about the loss of the submarine.   Some on places like Facebook (Yes I know, but several "friends" and family monitor there as well) some on news programs.  

It would seem, given the information I have seen, that it was a catastrophic mechanical failure of the submarine's hull.   But that is conjecture. We will never know for sure, I am afraid.  

Some have made fun of those taking the trip or chastised them for taking the "chance".  I will not do that.  They may live their lives as they wish and only have to answer to higher authority when that life ends.  

I look at them as explorers.  Similar to those who traveled to this continent in the 15th century.  Anyone believe that journey was without major hazards that would have to overcome?  Not me.

I hope their families can overcome the loss.  And yes, we will all learn from this.  


Update: I just heard on Newmax that several days ago the United States Navy "heard" a major noise in the area the sub were the submersible was excepted to be.  The station that heard the noise was one that was on line for monitoring for "foreign" submersible craft in and near some places.   The noise was reported to the appropriate authorities.

I did a search and could not confirm that from looking on line, but I believe that our Navy is monitoring for "nosies" and stuff like that 24/7 and would have heard the submersibles catastrophic  implosion which is what has been reported.

Yeah I read that too.

I’m not an engineer and barely fathom the pressures involved with diving at that depth but I do know they’re enormous.

There’s a lot that going to be said in the short and long term future about everything and everyone involved especially the guy who was fired for bringing up concerns on safety issues.

Hopefully people learn from this.

Huge sympathy to all the families, I can’t imagine.

[carolinarider09]

Regarding Pressure, 14.7 psi per 33 feet or about 44 psi per hundred feet or at 12,000 feet that would be over 5,000 psi. 

[Jersey mike]

Somewhere along the way I heard or read (I can’t recall which) that the entire shell/hull was made from carbon fiber, isn’t this just a step up from fiberglass? In the past I’ve heard fantastic things about carbon fiber about its strength and ease to work with but to be honest it sounds quite inadequate for something of this magnitude. Maybe it’s suitable for depths not as deep or maybe this submersible was over used and past it’s lifecycle. How do you pressure check it or check for stress after xxxx# of dives?

Like I said, many questions to come.

I really hope it was as instantaneous (or even faster than that) as people are saying.

[Robert]

I would have never gotten on this sub if I saw this

The missing submersible was run by a video game controller.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/titanic-submarine-missing-video-game-xbox-controller-is-that-normal/

[Chrisj CMA]

Kinda sorta. The video game controller talks to the main computer on the ship that controls the submarine. Those older controllers are made well and are very simple. Not much to go wrong with it.

[DIGGER]

News said yesterday part of the debris they found was the tail cone of the sub indicating implosion or explosion

[carolinarider09]

Kinda sorta. The video game controller talks to the main computer on the ship that controls the submarine. Those older controllers are made well and are very simple. Not much to go wrong with it.

100% agree.  I have a Xbox and a Sony Playstation.   Both well over ten years old.  Both still plugged in, but rarely used. 

Each time I turn on the Sony, I have no issues with the controller.  Never had an issue with the Xbox. 

While it may not be the "most dramatic" way to control the submersible.   What matters is its ability to do the job.   And just think of all the "things" game controllers have been through at homes and still work.

I will be very interested to see what, if any, information can be recovered from the subs implosion.  I don't thine there will be that intensive an investigation, given the depth, the origins of the submersible (privately owned), ect.

[carolinarider09]

I want to add one more thing.  Most of you will probably remember this.   

It has to do what safety and what was at one time considered safe and what is now considered safe.

On April 10, 1963, while engaged in a deep test dive approximately 200 miles off the Massachusetts  coast, USS THRESHER was lost at sea with all aboard, 112 Officers and Enlisted; 17 civilians[/b]

The creation of the "Sub Safe Program" was a direct result of the loss of the USS Thresher. Many things were done.  Many things were changed.

Many new standards were implemented.  Many new devices were installed.   

The link below the picture describes these changes and why and how.  What is important is that we sometimes fail to transfer standards from well founded safety programs to our normal lives.   

How many of you climb a ladder using "three point contact".? It's a well known and established safety standard.

From the CDC (Yeah I know but I believe this one).  Sound is measured in decibels (dB). A whisper is about 30 dB, normal conversation is about 60 dB, and a motorcycle engine running is about 95 dB. Noise above 70 dB over a prolonged period of time may start to damage your hearing. Loud noise above 120 dB can cause immediate harm to your ears.

While a well muffled motorcycle may not get to 95 db it could easily exceed 70db while riding.  How many of us wear ear protection to mitigate the noise?????? 

Just two things to consider.

See that "white" panel behind me on the left of the picture.  It was not there before the USS Thresher was lost.  It's a direct result of "Sub Safe".  Many things were changed. 



https://www.bsee.gov/sites/bsee.gov/files/technical-presentations/safety/schaffer-navy.pdf

For the record, the reported depth at which the USS Thresher was crushed was 2,400 feet. 

[carolinarider09]

I belong to two Submarine Groups on Facebook (yeah I know).    The members are basically submariners.   Some, like me, only severed six years, others, severed 20 - 30 years (lifers).  Almost all that time would be in submarines. 

In reading some of their responses to this tragedy I believe they following happened (it has been my premise as well).

The underwater sound was heard as soon as or at the same time, the comms were lost.   Based on that several assumed that it was a major hull failure.  The information was passed from the group that heard or recorded the sound to the "Incident Commander".   The Incident Commander was an Admiral in the United States Coast Guard.

As such the Incident Commander had a decision to make.   I firmly believe he made the decision to not promulgate this information to the news media and others so that the search would continue.

There could be no guarantee the sound was really from the submersible.   Any slow down in attempts to reach the submersible might well have had an impact on those onboard the submersible if the craft was still intact and they were still alive. 

Until such time as the deadline for the air supply being exhausted, I suspect the Incident Commander held the "sound" information close to his vest.  Once the time had expired, the likelihood of finding any survivors was basically nil.  So the information was released. 

There was no planning on use of this event to cover up anything happening with the Biden family.   

[scooperhsd]

I belong to two Submarine Groups on Facebook (yeah I know).    The members are basically submariners.   Some, like me, only severed six years, others, severed 20 - 30 years (lifers).  Almost all that time would be in submarines. 

In reading some of their responses to this tragedy I believe they following happened (it has been my premise as well).

The underwater sound was heard as soon as or at the same time, the comms were lost.   Based on that several assumed that it was a major hull failure.  The information was passed from the group that heard or recorded the sound to the "Incident Commander".   The Incident Commander was an Admiral in the United States Coast Guard.

As such the Incident Commander had a decision to make.   I firmly believe he made the decision to not promulgate this information to the news media and others so that the search would continue.

There could be no guarantee the sound was really from the submersible.   Any slow down in attempts to reach the submersible might well have had an impact on those onboard the submersible if the craft was still intact and they were still alive. 

Until such time as the deadline for the air supply being exhausted, I suspect the Incident Commander held the "sound" information close to his vest.  Once the time had expired, the likelihood of finding any survivors was basically nil.  So the information was released. 

There was no planning on use of this event to cover up anything happening with the Biden family.   

This sounds quite reasonable to me. CG 2 star (Incident commander) did what he thought would cover the bases and released the probable deaths after the air supply was projected to be out.

[0leman]

I agree with the CG commander keeping it quiet.  The deep diving unmanned vehicle that found the wreckage didn't get there till the last day of O2.  It appears that it did show the wreckage.  CG did the right thing.

[old2soon]

      I was in Roanoke I-23 while the talking heads at cnn and fox were making inane and assinine statements and conjecture about this tradgedy. I had a Truly bad feeling about the whole shootin match when I was first aware of it. Actual cause of this incident may well NEVER be known as some others have mentioned but at that depth Any fastener or seal failure would Be FATAL as has Happened. The only enviornment I can think of more dangerous than deep ocean depths would be outer space. RIDE SAFE.

[Jersey mike]

If anyone hasn’t seen it or hasn’t kept up on the recovery effort, this is a good video from the people who had the lead involved in the attempt to rescue those in the submersible. It gives an excellent breakdown of all the logistics involved for equipment, personnel and time to be onsite.

It’s 35 minutes and I skipped through the first man making the initial statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-fpcfKuau4