OEM Petcock Diaphram Alternative

[Rio Wil]

I made a few extra o-ring type plates to eliminate the diaphragm leaking issue.

email:  wncbridges@comcast.net

[Sodbuster]

you got a photo of it mounted ??

[Rio Wil]

That's a good idea, I will try to take that pic tomorrow and post it.  Basically tho, all the parts that come off by removing the four screws on the vacuum side are discarded and the same four screws are used to retain the plate and o-ring.

[Sodbuster]

sounds good. I should have asked this in the last post but is that "kit" to replace the vacuum function ?? and if so do you replace the #6 hose with a plug ?? one last question .... is the square place made out of SST ??

[roboto65]

Very Cool would be nice to have one in the bag just in case
 

[Rio Wil]

Yes, all the bits that make up the vacuum function are discarded and the vac hose from the #6 cylinder is plugged. The square plate is made of brass and the o-ring is nitrile. The fuel flow is now controlled only by the res-off-on switch.

[Sodbuster]

OK ... I'll take the bait - what are you asking for them ??

[Rio Wil]

LOL.....20 bucks, cash check or money order....

[Rio Wil]

PS....Sodbuster, I was trying to be discreet about the price, I don't think you are supposed to peddle ones wares blatantly on the list so I had added my email address (if anyone was interested) to the picture of the plate...chuckle   

[junior]

hide the stuff man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! da bull is comming  

[Ron K]

OK I sent you an email ......  I'm sold 

Ron

[Rio Wil]

.....and I sent you a email back...lol

[Rio Wil]

Here are a couple of pic's showing the bits and pieces  replaced by the plate and o-ring and a final pic of just the plate installed and ready to go....  Guess I could have cleaned the petcock first...

[Ron K]

Recieved the petcock plate and o- ring today ..... thank you very much Rio Will.
 
RonK

[Scott in Ok]

This is just my opinion, so take that for what it is worth.....(not much)

From my experience, the stock petcock valve is not a positive shutoff.  On the 3 or 4 I have messed with the valve still flowed fuel with the petcock turned off(and a vacuum pulled on the diaphragm).  I personally wouldn't trust the shutoff to not flow fuel when turned off,  without the diaphragm.  (A hydro-lock risk if you have a float needle that doesn't seal off good)

YMMV, FWIW...etc

-Scott

[Rio Wil]

Recieved the petcock plate and o- ring today ..... thank you very much Rio Will.
 
RonK

Thanks,....and here's to your diaphragm never failing and you won't have to use it...;o)

[Rio Wil]

This is just my opinion, so take that for what it is worth.....(not much)

From my experience, the stock petcock valve is not a positive shutoff.  On the 3 or 4 I have messed with the valve still flowed fuel with the petcock turned off(and a vacuum pulled on the diaphragm).  I personally wouldn't trust the shutoff to not flow fuel when turned off,  without the diaphragm.  (A hydro-lock risk if you have a float needle that doesn't seal off good)

YMMV, FWIW...etc

-Scott

I was hoping to get some data from 15-20 folks on just how prevalent (if at all) was the leakage of the oem petcock with the petcock turned off.  The topic was "78 Seconds" and didn't get any other test results than mine.  My perception is it is a pretty reliable mechanism and would be interesting to see if there were any instances of bikes running for much longer than 78 seconds.  (level road, 60 mph, fifth gear and turn petcock to off).

[Bone]

Rio Wil you need to bring this post to the top of the list when we can get our bikes on the road. The last 4 years I've rode 10/11 months of the year but we have real winter conditions now.
Two summers ago I racked up some miles on a tank full and never got the switch to reserve message. The petcock selector probably didn't click when I turned it on ? not sure what happened. It hasn't failed since. Less than a half a gallon left when I found a station.
I have been riding 40 + years and turning off the petcock is automatic. I want a manual shut-off, reserve and no vacumn parts to fail.

[X Ring]

I want a manual shut-off, reserve and no vacumn parts to fail.

Bone there is one answer to your desire.  Pingel Model 1311.  I got mine from Eastern Performance for $90 shipped.  http://www.easternperformance.com/products.php?product=Pingel-Hex-Chrome-90-Degree-Forward-Petcock-for-Harley.  Here's the link so you can double check it's the right one.  http://www.pingelonline.com/powerflo_application_frames.htm

Marty

[Ricky-D]

From Scott
This is just my opinion, so take that for what it is worth.....(not much)
From my experience, the stock petcock valve is not a positive shutoff.  On the 3 or 4 I have messed with the valve still flowed fuel with the petcock turned off(and a vacuum pulled on the diaphragm).  I personally wouldn't trust the shutoff to not flow fuel when turned off,  without the diaphragm.  (A hydro-lock risk if you have a float needle that doesn't seal off good)

From Rio Wil
I was hoping to get some data from 15-20 folks on just how prevalent (if at all) was the leakage of the oem petcock with the petcock turned off.  The topic was "78 Seconds" and didn't get any other test results than mine.  My perception is it is a pretty reliable mechanism and would be interesting to see if there were any instances of bikes running for much longer than 78 seconds.  (level road, 60 mph, fifth gear and turn petcock to off).

You have to recognize that it does not take much of a leak to cause a problem, if a hyrdolock is a possibility.
A small leak that cannot keep a motor running but can cause hydrolock could be as low as a couple of drops a minute!
A leak this small can not be detected by any kind of "how long a motor runs" testing and a seat of the pants conclusion.

The only way to truly test the pet rooster is to actually test the petcock. I removed my gas tank, set the tank on the bench and ran a short piece of hose into a bottle from the petcock.

The vacuum portion of the petcock was screwed and didn't function much at all. It didn't leak but it didn't shut the gas off either.
Regardless I found that the petcock "off", "on", and "reserve" function was spotty. The biggest problem with the petcock was the "off" position.

The detent in the petcock was not well defined when turning the petcock to off and even though I could feel the detent there were many tests where the gas was actually not shut off. It took a bit of turning back and forth to actually get the gas to stop flowing.
Trying to find the "sweet spot" with everything mounted would be folly.

I needed no more!  Installed a Pingle and the worrying stopped.

***

[JimC]

OK,
I need to know,
if I was to put the plate on my petcock, eliminating the vacuum portion of the valve, AND =  added an electric shut off valve like talked about in other posts, would this be the answer?

I like the placement of the original valve vs. the Pingle, but I want to insure that I do not have a leaking valve so adding the electric shut off should take care of it?

Anyone do something similar with the original shut off?

I thought that there was a valve on one of the other Honda bikes that looked like a direct replacement for our valve but without the vacuum portion, but I can't seem to find it now that I am looking for it.

Jim 

[Rio Wil]

From Scott
This is just my opinion, so take that for what it is worth.....(not much)
From my experience, the stock petcock valve is not a positive shutoff.  On the 3 or 4 I have messed with the valve still flowed fuel with the petcock turned off(and a vacuum pulled on the diaphragm).  I personally wouldn't trust the shutoff to not flow fuel when turned off,  without the diaphragm.  (A hydro-lock risk if you have a float needle that doesn't seal off good)

From Rio Wil
I was hoping to get some data from 15-20 folks on just how prevalent (if at all) was the leakage of the oem petcock with the petcock turned off.  The topic was "78 Seconds" and didn't get any other test results than mine.  My perception is it is a pretty reliable mechanism and would be interesting to see if there were any instances of bikes running for much longer than 78 seconds.  (level road, 60 mph, fifth gear and turn petcock to off).

You have to recognize that it does not take much of a leak to cause a problem, if a hyrdolock is a possibility.
A small leak that cannot keep a motor running but can cause hydrolock could be as low as a couple of drops a minute!
A leak this small can not be detected by any kind of "how long a motor runs" testing and a seat of the pants conclusion.

The only way to truly test the pet rooster is to actually test the petcock. I removed my gas tank, set the tank on the bench and ran a short piece of hose into a bottle from the petcock.

The vacuum portion of the petcock was screwed and didn't function much at all. It didn't leak but it didn't shut the gas off either.
Regardless I found that the petcock "off", "on", and "reserve" function was spotty. The biggest problem with the petcock was the "off" position.

The detent in the petcock was not well defined when turning the petcock to off and even though I could feel the detent there were many tests where the gas was actually not shut off. It took a bit of turning back and forth to actually get the gas to stop flowing.
Trying to find the "sweet spot" with everything mounted would be folly.

I needed no more!  Installed a Pingle and the worrying stopped.

***

The intent of the "how long a motor runs"  exercise is to see if there are any number of bikes with gross ball valve leakage and it can easily be done by doing the thing we like to do best.....ride down the road.  It seems your petcock was a basket case and it would have been very valuable to have a autopsy of what was really wrong with it other than having to find the "sweet spot" to turn it off.  I can't resist this....it just sounds like poppycock!   

[SgtBunny]

OK,
I need to know,
if I was to put the plate on my petcock, eliminating the vacuum portion of the valve, AND =  added an electric shut off valve like talked about in other posts, would this be the answer?

I like the placement of the original valve vs. the Pingle, but I want to insure that I do not have a leaking valve so adding the electric shut off should take care of it?

Anyone do something similar with the original shut off?

I thought that there was a valve on one of the other Honda bikes that looked like a direct replacement for our valve but without the vacuum portion, but I can't seem to find it now that I am looking for it.

Jim 

That is the route I am looking at as well as adding an inline filter.  That in my opinion should get r done.

[Madmike]

How do the electric shutoffs seal??  Can the seal fail and allow fuel past?? 

[fudgie]

Seems like a manual petcock is the way to go. Set it and forget it. Seems like the auto is a over kill. For the price of it, i'm guessing, you can have a manual petcock. Never heard of a manual failing.

[Friagabi]

The manual valve may not fail but I would fail to use it. Gather together the old parts and sent to me. If you need shipping costs send me an e-mail.

[Sodbuster]

OK,
I need to know,
if I was to put the plate on my petcock, eliminating the vacuum portion of the valve, AND added an electric shut off valve like talked about in other posts, would this be the answer?

I like the placement of the original valve vs. the Pingle, but I want to insure that I do not have a leaking valve so adding the electric shut off should take care of it
Jim 

That is the route I am looking at as well as adding an inline filter.  That in my opinion should get r done.

I'm kinda leaning that way myself.  Lets face it, some VRCC members are adamant about using a Pingel petcock and rightly so. It's a great product and has proven itself. But, there are others that just like having the lever right there and maintain the stock look. Using an electric shut off valve seems to be a viable solution to the problem in conjunction with Rio Wil's fix-it kit.  For about $50 (Rio Wils Kit & electric shut off valve) you should be able to put it to rest.

Click HERE to view 12 Volt Shut Off Valve

[Rio Wil]

OK,
I need to know,
if I was to put the plate on my petcock, eliminating the vacuum portion of the valve, AND added an electric shut off valve like talked about in other posts, would this be the answer?

I like the placement of the original valve vs. the Pingle, but I want to insure that I do not have a leaking valve so adding the electric shut off should take care of it
Jim 

That is the route I am looking at as well as adding an inline filter.  That in my opinion should get r done.

I'm kinda leaning that way myself.  Lets face it, some VRCC members are adamant about using a Pingel petcock and rightly so. It's a great product and has proven itself. But, there are others that just like having the lever right there and maintain the stock look. Using an electric shut off valve seems to be a viable solution to the problem in conjunction with Rio Wil's fix-it kit.  For about $50 (Rio Wils Kit & electric shut off valve) you should be able to put it to rest.

Click HERE to view 12 Volt Shut Off Valve

Hi All....just to be clear, my plate and oring are a solution to the diaphragm mechanism  failing and causing fuel starvation.  It also relies on the ball valve side of the oem petcock to be  functioning properly, ie, when you manually turn it to "off", it shuts off the fuel flow.  Note, it relies also on the rider to actually turn the valve off.  If you want to restore the protection the diaphragm offered, then adding an electric shut off as discussed here is a viable thing to do.  For me, I have the plate installed and I am OK with counting on the oem valve shut off to do its job and shut off the fuel when manually turned to "off".