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Author Topic: Rear drive  (Read 1459 times)
TrapperAH1G
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Posts: 197

Toledo, WA


« on: July 28, 2023, 01:20:39 PM »

Since I'm not discussing any tech issues of the rear drive, figured it should go here rather than tech board.  I've had my Valk 2 years and just finished my 3rd rear end maintenance, all done at close to the 10K mark.  I love this bike, and I can't see riding less, but don't enjoy doing this!  I know, no way around it.  I had ridden about 8K miles before I knew this needed to be done.  So....did my first one.  Glad 'cause all was bone dry and rusty.  Got it cleaned up and was relieved all was still pretty good.  Last 2 everything has still been greased up.

Anyway, just a short rant.  Lazy and weak in my golden years, makes it harder and takes all day.  Put 3K miles on in last 2 months, all within 250 mile radius of home......think I'll go for a ride!

Take care, ride safe, appreciate all the good info here!
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Chrisj CMA
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Posts: 14760


Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2023, 02:34:24 PM »

As long as you torqued the axel and then immediately the four nuts on the drive with the wheel off the ground you are golden
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Jess from VA
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Posts: 30407


No VA


« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2023, 02:42:57 PM »

It's not a job I relish either.

Age and bending, stooping, kneeling, and crawling around is not fun, no matter the task.

I can still go all day standing up.   Grin   
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Rams
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Posts: 16166


So many colors to choose from yet so few stand out

Covington, TN


« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2023, 02:58:02 PM »

It's not a job I relish either.

Age and bending, stooping, kneeling, and crawling around is not fun, no matter the task.

I can still go all day standing up.   Grin   

This is precisely the reason I bought a bike/trike lift.   My knees can't handle the repeated up and down maneuvers.   I start thinking I've got everything I need and then still have to go back to the tool chest for something.   No, I'm not a tech.............. Cry

Rams
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VRCC# 29981
Learning the majority of life's lessons the hard way.

Every trip is an adventure, enjoy it while it lasts.
Valkorado
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Posts: 10491


VRCC DS 0242

Gunnison, Colorado (7,703') Here there be twisties.


« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2023, 03:09:21 PM »

Since I'm not discussing any tech issues of the rear drive, figured it should go here rather than tech board. 

It's a PitA worthy of the PaM board, IMO.  I also dislike hate the process, and the 10k intervals.  It seems for the pain, challenge and greasy mess involved we deserve to get 30k outta the deal dammit.  I'm not gonna try that, tho.

My boring old low torque Shadow never saw a rear end service.  Before Valkyries, I didn't even know splined bikes required them.  A buddy of mine with a ST-1100 had no idea either.  He decided he should look into doing that soon.

Oops, I'm PaM-ing about it again.
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Have you ever noticed when you're feeling really good,
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97 Tourer "Silver Bullet"
01 Interstate "Ruby"

98valk
Member
*****
Posts: 13448


South Jersey


« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2023, 11:20:05 AM »

Since I'm not discussing any tech issues of the rear drive, figured it should go here rather than tech board.  I've had my Valk 2 years and just finished my 3rd rear end maintenance, all done at close to the 10K mark.  I love this bike, and I can't see riding less, but don't enjoy doing this!  I know, no way around it.  I had ridden about 8K miles before I knew this needed to be done.  So....did my first one.  Glad 'cause all was bone dry and rusty.  Got it cleaned up and was relieved all was still pretty good.  Last 2 everything has still been greased up.

Anyway, just a short rant.  Lazy and weak in my golden years, makes it harder and takes all day.  Put 3K miles on in last 2 months, all within 250 mile radius of home......think I'll go for a ride!

Take care, ride safe, appreciate all the good info here!

that is not rust but actually corrosion known as Fretting. make sure the u-joint splines are cleaned and new low friction grease is use along with a new spring on end of drive shaft.

from my thread.  https://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,116696.40.html

So my conclusion is to make sure the U-Joint splines are correctly lubricated, to prevent the drive shaft to final drive splines aka spline coupling (SC) from wearing out. I also installed a new driveshaft to spline cup seal every other tire change.

The SC in a perfect application would have zero forward/rearward movement and would be submerged in oil which would result in zero wear and fretting. Fretting is a type of corrosion which gives that rust powder look. Is not from water intrusion. In some applications they actually glue the splines together to stop movement.

Honda provided the locking spring clip on the SC end of the drive shaft to help reduce movement of the SC, but it is still not a solid zero movement connection. So this is where the lubricated U-joint splines come into effect, thereby doing all of the movement, to reduce or actually eliminate any SC movement.

In a few of the links I provide it is stated that the SC splines should be hardened to greatly reduce wear.  Did Honda do this to the parts?

In my case I inadvertently mixed greases with different bases for the u-joint splines, by re-greasing and not cleaning off the old grease.
My fault, at the time, I didn't realize they had different bases. So what happened the greases started to dry out and not provide the easy sliding movement as needed and the SC failed in 17k miles.

For re-installing the U-Joint boot I coated the inside lips with silicone grease and it pops on with zero problems. suggest not to use a silicone spray which has petroleum products in it and other things which could degrade the boot material.

So to bring this all together, proper lubrication of the u-joint splines is extremely important and should be done every tire change to protect the SC. 
This time I used moly bearing chassis grease for the U-Joint for even more friction reduction and easier sliding.

For the SC I mixed TS-70 moly paste with some high temp grease so there would be about a 50/50 moly to grease ratio as recommended by the Dan Foss pdf which is a much higher percent of moly than the 3% moly grease the Honda manual calls for.

The following documents have some very good info about SCs and lubrication requirements.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/693/fretting-wear

https://www.powertransmission.com/issues/0214/spline-couplings.pdf

https://assets.danfoss.com/documents/76142/AI152986482538en-000304.pdf

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=423609

https://gearsolutions.com/departments/tooth-tips-a-brief-overview-of-splines/

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=383504
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
TrapperAH1G
Member
*****
Posts: 197

Toledo, WA


« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2023, 06:10:15 PM »

Clarification:  The rust or fretting wasn't on either end of the drive shaft.  Those were fine and covered in lube.  It was the drive gears in the wheel and final drive.
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98valk
Member
*****
Posts: 13448


South Jersey


« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2023, 07:09:17 PM »

Clarification:  The rust or fretting wasn't on either end of the drive shaft.  Those were fine and covered in lube.  It was the drive gears in the wheel and final drive.

still fretting, final drive is splines, need moly paste/grease to prevent it.

https://www.tsmoly.com/grease-spline-grease-p-367.html
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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