Turn Signals Update

[DragonRdr]

While I was removing the tail light on the Interstate to check out the bulb sizes before I bought the LED replacements I remembered a strange problem I'm having with the turn signals.  When I turn on the turn signals (right or left) they flash exactly 20 times and then shut off by themselves. The running light goes off too. When I turn off the turn signal switch the running light comes back on. I ask the mechanic at the local Honda dealer about it when I got my state inspection in April and he says he didn't know unless it was an aftermarket mod installed by the previous owner. I've heard about Jersey's Signal Boss, but after reading up on it I don't think that's it. I checked the bulbs and they are the standard OEMs front and back. Anyone else out there ever run into this? It's not a big deal unless I have to sit at an intersection or stop light for a long time, but I would like to shut it off or reset it to more flashes if possible. Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[WintrSol]

So, you have to press the cancel button to get the running lights on? If so, that is normal, as the switch turns them off while the signal is flashing (selector switch to right or left). Ten flashes and done seems like a mod, or a defective flasher.

[DragonRdr]

So, you have to press the cancel button to get the running lights on? If so, that is normal, as the switch turns them off while the signal is flashing (selector switch to right or left). Ten flashes and done seems like a mod, or a defective flasher.

Thanks Ill check out the flasher, but wouldn't it just not work if it were going bad? Also, it's always 20 flashes left and right when I click the signal switch. 

[RonW]

When I turn on the turn signals (right or left) they flash exactly 20 times and then shut off by themselves. The running light goes off too. When I turn off the turn signal switch the running light comes back on.


haven't a clue on the 20 flashes, but the low filaments in the front signals goes back on only after you physically cancel the activated front signal. [as already stated a few seconds ago] Anyways, that's so both filaments in the same bulb won't be on together and over heat the bulb socket etc. So that part's normal. Again, you do have to physically flick the hi filament off for the low filament to go back on. That's assuming the self cancelling thingie doesn't physically move the turn signal switch back to its off position.

The thumblever is a double pole, double throw switch, but unlike most dpdt switches which turns two circuits on or two circuits off in the direction that you flick the switch, when the turn signal's hi filament is ON the low filament is OFF.  Essentially an either/or arrangement or an *OR* *exclusive OR* gate in boolean logic. Both filaments in the same front bulb won't ever be on together, neither both filaments won't ever be off together by design.

[DragonRdr]

When I turn on the turn signals (right or left) they flash exactly 20 times and then shut off by themselves. The running light goes off too. When I turn off the turn signal switch the running light comes back on.


haven't a clue on the 20 flashes, but the low filaments in the front signals goes back on only after you physically cancel the activated front signal. [as already stated a few seconds ago] Anyways, that's so both filaments in the same bulb won't be on together and over heat the bulb socket etc. So that part's normal. Again, you do have to physically flick the hi filament off for the low filament to go back on. That's assuming the self cancelling thingie doesn't physically move the turn signal switch back to its off position.

The thumblever is a double pole, double throw switch, but unlike most dpdt switches which turns two circuits on or two circuits off in the direction that you flick the switch, when the turn signal's hi filament is ON the low filament is OFF.  Essentially an either/or arrangement or an *OR* gate in boolean logic. Both filaments in the same front bulb won't ever be on together, neither both filaments won't ever be off together by design.

Thanks for the reply and info, and it all makes sense. I'm still researching for any mods that may be the reason for the cut off after 20 flashes. I wonder if it could be an after market flasher that is designed to shut off after a certain number of flashes. Take care and thanks again. I can always count on the forum when I run into something with the Valk. 

[sandy]

One thing to check is the switch internals. The grease gets old and stiff and gives the signals some oddities. Clean with brake/carb cleaner. When you expose the innards, see if there's a spring or foam inserted in the switch. If so, a self-canceling devise is installed.

[-mike-]

Sounds for me like the Jersey Signal Boss doing exactly what it is supposed to do.


You can program the time it will flash or set it to not auto-termimation at all
Get the manual from my Google drive and test the programming routine.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j2GOVSZ9DTwVNxKEVvf9VLk3Q71KZWes/view?usp=drivesdk

I have only the Standard/Router Manual, so no idea if the Interstate manual is different.

Best,
-mike-

[DragonRdr]

Sounds for me like the Jersey Signal Boss doing exactly what it is supposed to do.


You can program the time it will flash or set it to not auto-termimation at all
Get the manual from my Google drive and test the programming routine.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j2GOVSZ9DTwVNxKEVvf9VLk3Q71KZWes/view?usp=drivesdk

I have only the Standard/Router Manual, so no idea if the Interstate manual is different.

Best,
-mike-

Thanks I downloaded the manual and tested the turn signals. Definitely not the Signal Boss. I did notice one thing I didn't notice before. After the 20 flashes, if you have the brakes on, the left brake light flickers on and off very fast. It's always the left brake light whether it's the left or right turn signal? Not sure what would cause that? Thanks again.  Also no spring or foam in the switch.

[Willow]

It sounds very much like a mod that was on one of my Interstates (prior to my acquisition).  It annoyed me that though it would stop the flashing it did not neutralize the switch.

It is a mod.

[RonW]

The 20-flash gizmo must be spliced somewhere on the flasher wire that goes to the turnsignal selector. Gray wire.


Btw, the reason you got to physically flick the thumblever to get the front running lights to go on again is that the movable contact has a ball & detent arrangement. For example when the thumblever shifts the movable contact to the right, the ball falls into the right detent and the movable contact latches (remains in place).

The thumblever itself is non-latching and returns to its straight position independent of the movable contact in its detent. To get the front running light to turn on again, the movable contact has to be returned to the middle detent which cancels the activated signal. Turning off the hi filament turns on the low filament (running light) in the same bulb as aforementioned. You can flick the thumblever, but I prefer to push in the thumblever which shifts the movable contact back to the middle detent just the same.



Even though it's not a Jersey version, the foam and spring was so the turnsignal switch self returns to neutral.

[WintrSol]

Even though it's not a Jersey version, the foam and spring was so the turnsignal switch returns .

Before I installed the Jersey mod, I sometimes had to push the release several times to cancel the signals. This change may have stopped that behavior. I do like the 4-way flashers, though, so won't go back unless/until the SignalBoss fails.

[DragonRdr]

Thanks again for all the great advice. I think I'll take RonW's suggestion and try and trace the flasher wire to a mod that's installed somewhere. Hopefully I won't have to take the gas tank off.

[-mike-]

You may first check the place where the flasher relay is. Just between battery box and center center cover.

Now go and hunt the gremlin down!

Good luck,
-mike-

[ridingron]

When you find that gremlin, post about it.

[DragonRdr]

No luck with finding any mod attached between the switch and flasher relay. I guess it could be the relay but really don't want to spend $50 from Partzilla for a replacement just to find out it's not the relay. If it is the relay more than likely it will eventually fail. As I said before it's only a problem if I get stuck at an intersection or stop light/sign for a long time. For now I'm just going to live with it I guess. Thanks again everyone for your inputs and comments.

Cheers 

[Pluggy]

If you decide to replace the relay, this version is electronic and appears superior to the genuine Honda.  I didn't need to use the little cable.  Costs less.  And if you are not pleased with it you can send it back.

https://www.amazon.com/MFC-PRO-Electronic-problems-FLR-MFC2/dp/B082X6DX6L/ref=asc_df_B082X6DX6L/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=507530154856&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17594319960774590528&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010019&hvtargid=pla-1430109263472&th=1

[RonW]

agreed, no need to buy an oem flasher which is a mechanical flasher in a digital age. and electronic flasher are ¼ the price.

[DragonRdr]

Thanks Pluggy, but the description says LED, will it work with non-LED bulbs? If it will I'll go ahead and order one. 

[DragonRdr]

Yes.  Now if you send me a message containing your address, I would be pleased to send you the old OEM that came out of my bike, still works.  And also another electronic flasher relay.  Free, of course.

Thanks Pluggy message sent.

[DragonRdr]

Well I finally figured it out thanks to Pluggy.  It was a older version of the SignalMinder installed to replace the OEM flasher relay. When I did my first check I mistook the starter relay for the flasher relay. The SignalMinder was tucked down and attached with velcro to the frame.

I looked it up online and depending on how you set the 3 dip switches on the SignalMinder, you can set it for 10, 20 or 30 seconds. It was set for 20. I went ahead and installed a replacement LED flasher relay and it works great. Now I just need to order the LED bulbs.

Thanks everyone for the help, especially Pluggy.

Cheers 

[RonW]

I went ahead and installed a replacement LED flasher relay and it works great.

• Now I just need to order the LED bulbs.

Glad you found the gremlin.

Led flashers don't require Led bulbs.

It's the other way around, Led bulbs would require a Led flasher because mechanical flashers make Led bulbs blink too fast (hyper flashing). Some Led flashers affect the flashing rate. Either retard the flashing. Or cause it to blink faster which might be preferable. That said, there are so many versions of Led bulbs out there that it can be overwhelming.

[DragonRdr]

I was just about ready to give up when I found the SignalMinder. As you said the flasher relay works fine with the OEM bulbs, but I've been wanting to switch to LEDs anyway. Pluggy recommended a couple of bulbs and after checking the bike's OEM bulbs to make sure I had the right type (1157 front, 1156 back), I ordered them from Amazon this morning. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether or not I'll have to install a diode on the blinker indicator lights? Unlike the Standard and Tourer, the Interstates have a right and left blinker indicator light, so I may not have to (fingers crossed). If there's anyone out there that's done it on an Interstate I would be interested in the results. I'll start another post to let everyone know my results.

Cheers 

[Pluggy]

Almost done!  Looking at the Interstate diagram, it appears no diodes are needed.  You will have the answer once the Amazon order arrives. 

A "non-polar" indicator LED we can get on eBay eliminates the need for diodes on Tourer/Standard bikes.  Did mine a couple of years ago using one.  All has been good.

[RonW]

Wow that Signal Minder is over a hundred bucks!! I guess you could resell it.

That said, they never yet designed a auto cancel gizmo that flicks the turnsignal switch back to the neutral position. You still have to use the thumblever to manually flick the switch back to the neutral position as with any switch that doesn't have an auto cancel. Of course, that's not to cancel the blinking since the blinking has already been cancelled electronically. Instead it's to reset the switch so the running light goes back on. Still redundant if that's the right word.

[-mike-]

The Jersey Signal Boss comes/ came  with a set of springs to install into the switch.
This made the switch momentary to both sides.
Was needed, too, as long press to left or right triggers hazard or escort flashing.

Works without issues like anything made by Steve.

-mike-

[RonW]

Steve did put in a lot of work fine tuning his spring and/or foam addon. In his video he even notes, paraphrasing, "for some reason the left side works better with both a spring and the foam used together." Btw, the coil spring is $4 each. And yea only momentary required since the Signal Minder Signal Boss takes over after it gets a signal to start the count down.

However after the foam/spring resets the switch to the neutral position it does mean that the low filament (running light) is on with the hi filament in the same bulb, A2 vrs. B2, below. Does it matter? Well, the brake light doesn't shut off the low filament (running light) when engaged. Both filaments are on back there albeit the rear tail light has more volume than a turn signal in regards to overheating things.




The foam and spring overpowers the detent arrangement. [edit] And no, I don't talk in detail like this in the real world.

[-mike-]

The signal boss is spliced into the running light circuit too and controls them.

I know because Steve had to make a special module for me, the European Valkyries donot have running lights in front.
I also had to modify the Signal Boss harness accordingly.
We found out the hard way... The US module he sent me first refused to work at all.

BTW, I really do appreciate your drawings!
Exceptional and self declaring!

Best,
-mike-

[DragonRdr]

Wow that Signal Minder is over a hundred bucks!! I guess you could resell it.

That said, they never yet designed a auto cancel gizmo that flicks the turnsignal switch back to the neutral position. You still have to use the thumblever to manually flick the switch back to the neutral position as with any switch that doesn't have an auto cancel. Of course, that's not to cancel the blinking since the blinking has already been cancelled electronically. Instead it's to reset the switch so the running light goes back on. Still redundant if that's the right word.

The SignalMinder I removed from the bike definitely doesn't look like the current versions I see online. It was probably one of their earlier versions. If anyone is interested in it send me a private message with your address and I'll send it to you for free. I don't plan on using it again.

Cheers