I support our vendors, but...

[Bagger John - #3785]

Can anyone tell me what Redeye was thinking when they made the drive spline O-ring the size they did?

Back story: In 23 years of playing with these bikes I've pulled at least a hundred rear wheels for various R&R purposes and I wouldn't be surprised if the real figure is double that or more. Naturally, every reinstallation gets a new thrust washer and O rings.

In all those years I've never had one fight me like my Tourer did today. The vast majority of the wheel swaps used Honda parts, though the last tire change on my Tourer saw a Redeye kit installed - and it went on without a hitch.

SOP is the same: Bike on a lift, rear of frame supported by a scissor jack and lumber. Exhausts are out of the way. Final drive comes out for cleaning and re-moly; wheel is also cleaned and re-lubed. Final drive is put back on swingarm, wheel pushed onto the final drive (mating the two) then axle is put through final drive, spacer, brake bracket and swingarm. All fasteners are left loose during assembly and tightening sequence is then done per the manual (which erroneously jumps you ahead a well-known step).

Sounds easy, right? WRONG. No amount of wiggling could get the two to mate properly.

More back story: I'm strong enough to deadlift the rear of an I/S with ease, and my Tourer is of similar weight. Not once, not twice but thrice the whole contraption almost came down off the lift/jack because of the force being applied to make the two assemblies mate.

A test with wheel and final drive off the bike showed they would go together, albeit with a good degree more force than with the Honda parts. They didn't bind, so that much is good.

So a question or two for the crew at large: WTF is the trick making this work? Did something change in the geometry and/or the material used in the parts which makes it so difficult?

[98valk]

install instructions here.  with a little lube on the O-rings had zero problem installing them. they last for at least three tire changes maybe more.

https://sites.google.com/site/valkparts/

[Willow]

Addressing the title of the thread, Redeye is a dependable vendor but he is not a VRCC promoted or supporting vendor.  I wish it were otherwise.

[RonW]

Dunno if this woulda resolved the issue but mello dude noted that if you chamfer the leading edge of the 5-star flange .....





..... it's less likely the interior o-ring gets rolled over and hung up moreso if your o-ring happened to be off size. As stated don't know if this was the problem but if so, you might search for mello dude's thread. A few years back I think it was. I believe the o-ring holder is press fitted in the pumpkin so it's not something that gets removed normally. Something you'll only get to see on a forum. If memory serves, mello dude bought a new o-ring holder to experiment. Meanwhile, I'm just posting mello dude's pictures without implied or expressed consent or royalties so on. Perhaps, he'll chime in.








The o-ring holder resides in the pumpkin not in the 5-star flange like the pics above.

[Jims99]

I’ve had the same issue with the red eye orings. Also same issue as the photo with it pushed out. I bought a few sets of these and will probably go back to stock when they’re gone. Other products of his have been great. Just take your time and wiggle it around a lot and it seems to make it fall In easier.

[burple05]

Same for me when I tried Redeye O-rings.  It almost killed me.  The frustration of the hub sliding right on when not on the wheel and then now way while attached to the wheel.  Even had a buddy come over to help.  It just wasn't happening.  I ended up re-using the old o-ring.  I think redeye are too hard and big around for easy fit.  They probably seal better and last longer if you can get them to go.

Peace, Ron.

[RonW]

• They probably seal better and last longer if you can get them to go.

        Peace, Ron.



Do you think warming them up would make the install any easier?

redeye's o-rings is polyurethane. That's the stuff they make skateboard wheels out of. Industrial cart wheels too. So I guess they would last longer.

[RonW]

I'm sure polyurethane comes in different grades of hardness. Wether the entire selection is available to a vendor the size of redeye is another question. Polyurethane though is quite durable in any grade. I think. I gather that 'elusive o-ring' can be the PITA o-ring.

[f-Stop]

I installed the Red Eye o-rings on my last rear end service/tire change.  I do recall that it was a little difficult to get everything married back up.  It never occurred to me that the o-rings were the cause. 
I just figured the right cuss words weren't being used! 

[mello dude]

- OK, so I'm not the only one that was going bonkers trying to get the rear wheel home with RedEye O-rings.... 

- Went looking for my original posting....
 
- Hey RonW ... totally cool on posting my photos n stuff... 

[RonW]

thanks, mello dude! It's one of a few threads that sticks in my mind. Without that extra o-ring holder you had on hand, it wouldn't be possible to describe what's pictured below with 50 paragraphs.

[mello dude]

I'm still at... no matter waht.. any time I get a new 5 star flange, I'm going the chamfer and polish route. That front edge is sharp... It helps even with the OEM rings too.

[98valk]

Dunno if this woulda resolved the issue but mello dude noted that if you chamfer the leading edge of the 5-star flange .....





..... it's less likely the interior o-ring gets rolled over and hung up moreso if your o-ring happened to be off size. As stated don't know if this was the problem but if so, you might search for mello dude's thread. A few years back I think it was. I believe the o-ring holder is press fitted in the pumpkin so it's not something that gets removed normally. Something you'll only get to see on a forum. If memory serves, mello dude bought a new o-ring holder to experiment. Meanwhile, I'm just posting mello dude's pictures without implied or expressed consent or royalties so on. Perhaps, he'll chime in.








The o-ring holder resides in the pumpkin not in the 5-star flange like the pics above.

nice!   

[Valker]

And how does one do that to the edge?

[Pluggy]

Many of us replace the o-rings along with a rear tire.  Ever remove an o-ring with abrasion damage?  Not me.  Honda or similar o-rings have outlasted the tires.  If we change the o-rings every 10K miles, are extra tough red o-rings of any real benefit?

[Avanti]

I have checked both red eye and OEM o rings with a micrometer and there does not seem to be any measurable difference in wear over the same length of time. So I am good with either one.

[The emperor has no clothes]

Many of us replace the o-rings along with a rear tire.  Ever remove an o-ring with abrasion damage?  Not me.  Honda or similar o-rings have outlasted the tires.  If we change the o-rings every 10K miles, are extra tough red o-rings of any real benefit?

I have had some show wear. I wouldn’t call it abrasion. For me, I change between 10 and 15k. I’ve never used the poly ones though. I think guys are reusing the poly ones.

[mello dude]

And how does one do that to the edge?

Clamping the thing in a vise, started out with a half round file, worked around knocking off the egde until the shape of the chamfer is some what close, then go to work on finish with progressively finer and finer  emery cloth, and I think I ended with around 5000 grit finishing cloth.

Or I could have just said....Got a few hours to burn - It takes carp ton of elbow grease 

[Valker]

Thanks.

[Challenger]

I had the same problem with the red eye o-rings. I chamfered mine with a fine die grinder and finished with emery tape. Maybe 20 minutes. A dab of synthetic greas and it slides together nicely.

[mello dude]

I had the same problem with the red eye o-rings. I chamfered mine with a fine die grinder and finished with emery tape. Maybe 20 minutes. A dab of synthetic greas and it slides together nicely.

Very cool.... Air tools rock...(if I had any)

Thanks for the post. 

[98valk]

I had the same problem with the red eye o-rings. I chamfered mine with a fine die grinder and finished with emery tape. Maybe 20 minutes. A dab of synthetic greas and it slides together nicely.

Very cool.... Air tools rock...(if I had any)

Thanks for the post. 

I have a corded die grinder from harbor freight, works very well, better than the air die grinder I have.

[Bagger John - #3785]

What a mea culpa moment.

Re:

install instructions here.  with a little lube on the O-rings had zero problem installing them. they last for at least three tire changes maybe more.

https://sites.google.com/site/valkparts/

The missing step was making sure the final drive was loose (lower shock stud removed), support the tire with a piece of 2x4 and hit the final drive with a rubberized dead-blow mallet a couple times while bracing the rotor side with another piece of 2x4. Everything basically fell together after that.

Old Redeye parts had been in for a number of years with zero leaks and I wanted to use same again if at all possible. It's all assembled now.

I've a ton of Redeye stuff elsewhere on the bikes and in the parts stash, so the quality isn't an issue. Pilot error here. 

[RonW]

just for conversation, bscrive mentioned in an earlier discussion that the o-ring holder is pressed fitted about ⅛-inch deep in its substrate (A, below).






Even with only a ⅛-inch deep press fit it takes some effort extracting the o-ring holder (I've heard). I would think the o-ring holder would get deformed out of round in the process. That said, I don't know whether bscrive or Fritz the Cat, forum members who were part of an earlier discussion, reused the o-ring holder despite it being scratched up. Mello dude went and bought a new o-ring holder but that was for analyzing how the parts fit together or in this instance why they don't fit together.




The o-ring holder is barely visible in its natural state.




Random doodles. Below, unchamfered edge.




Chamfered edge.