What happened in Israel could never happen in the USA...

[Savago]

I was shocked to learn that only 2% of the Israeli citizens have guns and apparently with a limit of only 50 rounds.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK6Y-Y8D5co

Even worst, apparently the Israel government took between 6 to 12 hours to actually start sending people to rescue the victims of the terrorist attacks.
  :'(

Meanwhile, the average of homes that have guns in the US is around 40%, with some variation between States (https://news.gallup.com/poll/264932/percentage-americans-own-guns.aspx).

Keeping in mind that this is hard to calculate, lots of people are fortunate to have guns that were not registered by the State (unlike Cali where everything I bought is in a gov database...).

IIRC Montana and Alaska were leading the pack (around 60% of homes have guns) and other States are pretty low around 16% in Cali and around 14% in NY (source: https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/gun-ownership-by-state/).

The founding fathers knew what they were doing when they wrote the Constitution.
 

[Robert]

You asked a question about how to give an upside to your kids and wife about guns. This is the perfect reason to give them. You are right about this not happening here, and our founders knew this and no matter who is responsible US citizens can protect themselves.

They knew what they were doing when they gave us the second amendment and it was meant for enemies abroad or here.

[Savago]

@Robert: believe me a tried. The current situation is that both my wife and daughter 'tolerates' my interest in guns and my support for the 2A.

But we are making small progress: last August I managed to convince my daughter to come to a range with me and shoot a 22LR pistol and my new Ruger 10/22.

She had a blast (and shot so well, it was really surprising!), but remains a staunch opposer to the general public having access to guns.

I guess it is small steps, I hope one day they will change their opinion on the subject like I did when I started to study the matter.
 

[Jess from VA]

Another reason we are unlike Israel is our geography; Canada and Mexico are unlikely to invade, (though our southern border is invaded daily, it is not by murdering maniacs, mostly).  And the US has systematically stuck it's finger in Central American and Caribbean politics for centuries (and the Monroe Doctrine).

The closest thing to this the US has faced has been race riots.  Though these have not been invasions so much as people burning down (and looting) their own cities.

I lived through the Detroit Riots in 1967 and 1968 (MLK).  Although I lived far enough out to be spared direct contact, and the bridges to our island were just left open after dark, so no one got in or out.

I was at March AFB (Riverside CA) in 1992 during the Rodney King riots.  We sat in the O club sipping beers watching LA go up in flames on the TV.  

My best lifelong friend (from 4th grade on) and his young family lived right down in LA.  I called him up and he told me they were headed his way.  I asked if he still had his dad's old Browning A5 shotgun, and he said he did, though it had not been fired (or cleaned) in 20 years.  Worse yet, he had no ammo (shells), and now all ammo sales had been suspended in LA.  I told him to pack his family up and come out to March AFB, and I would put them up in my base house, which he considered, but never came.  The riot finally got within 2 blocks of his home, but no closer.

I later got him to show me the old Browning shotgun, and it was a filthy rusty mess (I took it home and did a major restoration for him).  And... Hey Rich, a man with a brain would buy a few boxes of shells buddy.

Rich worked (still does) in the movie industry and never became a rabid anti gunner, but was largely polluted by his exposure to such nonsense.  And his wife and kids were the same as yours.  

The LA shop-owner "Rooftop Koreans" had an appreciation of our 2d Amend rights (which apparently pissed off the looters big time).







I think it's noteworthy that many foreign immigrants (from various backgrounds) have a greater understanding and appreciation of our 2d Amend, than many Americans do.  

 

 

[Robert]

@Robert: believe me a tried. The current situation is that both my wife and daughter 'tolerates' my interest in guns and my support for the 2A.

But we are making small progress: last August I managed to convince my daughter to come to a range with me and shoot a 22LR pistol and my new Ruger 10/22.

She had a blast (and shot so well, it was really surprising!), but remains a staunch opposer to the general public having access to guns.

I guess it is small steps, I hope one day they will change their opinion on the subject like I did when I started to study the matter.
 

My first experience with guns was a school club that shot 22LR after school and went to meets. I got interested and enjoyed it and as I talked I found more and more people also liked shooting. So in time it became a great way to enjoy shooting and became a part of life.

Up to that point my parents didn't talk about it and no one around me did either. I later found out my cousin in Cali had a 22 rifle she did not use and had awards as a marksman. She sent me the gun and the rest is history.

In our society today unless you approach people on the subject no one talks about it and that in kids creates stigmas about things. Making it normal, makes it enjoyable. Keep it up and you will see changes.

[cookiedough]

yah, my kids generation in 20s and 30s most do not own guns in that age range nowadays.  Is unfortunate but true.   I probably should just give 2 of my guns, .22 and 12 gauge, to my age 22 kid but am afraid where he lives they will be stolen in a big city near college campus.  I already have 2 other .22's though and 3 other 12 gauge shotguns no real sense keeping them all (besides chance of being stolen) might as well let him enjoy/shoot them right since collecting dust in my house.

[Robert]

I think it's noteworthy that many foreign immigrants (from various backgrounds) have a greater understanding and appreciation of our 2d Amend, than many Americans do.  
 

Yup, true.

Many want to learn foreign languages but fail at it. But when your in the country the first thing they learn is money, numerals and anything to do with that or eating. Make it relative and see how quickly people learn and understand what is important.

[carolinarider09]

I will keep my statements as clean and neat as possible.

What first came to mind when I saw the title was "Never say Never".

And yes, the Second Amendment was second for a reason.

I do stand ready.   And the freedoms and liberties granted to the "Citizens" of the United States Constitution are not for sale. 

[Serk]

While I wouldn't say "never", it would be a bit more difficult as things currently stand...

Not impossible.... just more difficult...

[Willow]

...
What first came to mind when I saw the title was "Never say Never".
... 

It's a little disconcerting when our thoughts so closely coincide.   

[Rams]

While I do agree that the US is not like Israel, that's pretty much where the agreement ends.

With around 8 million illegals crossing our southern border since this administration took charge, we really don't have a good handle on how many terrorists may be in this country and we don't even know where they are.   How many terrorists' cells have formed and let's face it, when the mission is to kill as many non-Muslims as possible even if that involves sacrificing oneself, it won't take much to see some pretty significant assaults on unarmed citizens who do not have the capability to defend themselves.  This does not even include American citizens who may have been converted to the Islamic attitude. Remember what one gunman did from a hotel room window in Nevada at a country music concert, now consider what a small squad of appropriately armed and semi-trained terrorists could do.

There are not as that many armed carrying citizens out there who could defend against even a semi-organized attack on a mall, church or event where hundreds or more non-Muslins were in attendance.

I hope and pray that I'm wrong but, when it happens, don't say you weren't warned.   This imigration SNAFU will be costly and horrendous.  

Rams

[Serk]

...wonder how many of those surface to air missiles we left in Afghanistan have found their way back across our un watched southern border...

Wouldn't take many of 'em in the arms of people not afraid to die camped out by major airports to have a very big impact very quickly...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/taliban-may-have-inherited-hundreds-of-missiles-from-former-afghan-government

[Rams]

...wonder how many of those surface to air missiles we left in Afghanistan have found their way back across our un watched southern border...

Wouldn't take many of 'em in the arms of people not afraid to die camped out by major airports to have a very big impact very quickly...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/taliban-may-have-inherited-hundreds-of-missiles-from-former-afghan-government

Yep, a typical airliner with, just say 250 to 300 souls on board would be a significant target and the assailants would have the opportunity to esccape and do another attack somewhere else.


No, we're not Israel but, we're definitely in their sites.

Rams

[Valkorado]

...wonder how many of those surface to air missiles we left in Afghanistan have found their way back across our un watched southern border...

Wouldn't take many of 'em in the arms of people not afraid to die camped out by major airports to have a very big impact very quickly...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/taliban-may-have-inherited-hundreds-of-missiles-from-former-afghan-government

Power transformers, large dams, etc..  Uncle Sam needs to wake up from being woke and get with the game, or it could be game over.

[Savago]

@Serk: I think if shooting para-gliding terrorists, 5.56 NATO may not be the best choice (it drifts more with the wind). On the other hand, 7.62 NATO/.308 win may be the proper medicine.

But for urban warfare and short range engagements like what happened in Israel, I think that an AR-15 may be the best tool for the job.

You got me thinking, I may consider finally buying an AR to better understand why Americans seem to love this type of rifle.
 

[Willow]

@Serk: I think if shooting para-gliding terrorists, 5.56 NATO may not be the best choice (it drifts more with the wind). On the other hand, 7.62 NATO/.308 win may be the proper medicine.
... 

By my experience on U.S. Marine Corps ranges (of course it is 43 years old) I can say both rounds are very, very accurate at 500 yards.  Neither is likely the best round for long distance sniper purposes. 

[Serk]

You got me thinking, I may consider finally buying an AR to better understand why Americans seem to love this type of rifle.
 

Ironically, although I have a *cough* few AR pattern rifles, it's not an AR I keep hot and ready for zombie issues... It's one of my Tavor's... (And I'm not even Jewish! )



But you can't deny the smile firing an AR puts on kid's faces!

https://rumble.com/v1eed3r-blake-shooting-an-ar-for-the-very-first-time.html

[Savago]

@Willow: good to know, I guess another reason for me to get a 5.56 rifle!

@Serk: your kids are blessed for having such a great father, teaching them the proper way to handle firearms and the importance of the 2A.
 

[Rams]

For those interested in long range sniper rifles:

Top 6 Best Sniper Rifles Reviews

1 Remington® 700™ XCR™ Long-Range Tactical Bolt-Action Rifle ...
2 Springfield Armory® M1A-A1™ Scout Squad™ Semiautomatic Rifle ...
3 Savage Arms 110 Tactical Hunter Bolt-Action Rifle ...
4 Bushmaster BF BA50, Bolt Action, .50 BMG, 30″ Barrel, 10+1 Rounds ...
5 Ruger® American Rifle® Predator Bolt-Action Rifle with Flush-Fit Magazine ...
6 Savage® Arms AXIS® XP Compact Bolt-Action Rifle with Scope ...
{The 6} Best Sniper Rifles in 2023 [October Tested] -

[MAD6Gun]

@Serk: I think if shooting para-gliding terrorists, 5.56 NATO may not be the best choice (it drifts more with the wind). On the other hand, 7.62 NATO/.308 win may be the proper medicine.

But for urban warfare and short range engagements like what happened in Israel, I think that an AR-15 may be the best tool for the job.

You got me thinking, I may consider finally buying an AR to better understand why Americans seem to love this type of rifle.
 

 The AR that you can buy differs very much from the two AR15s I own. My Colt HBAR would be banned in CA.

[Serk]

@Serk: I think if shooting para-gliding terrorists, 5.56 NATO may not be the best choice (it drifts more with the wind). On the other hand, 7.62 NATO/.308 win may be the proper medicine.

But for urban warfare and short range engagements like what happened in Israel, I think that an AR-15 may be the best tool for the job.

You got me thinking, I may consider finally buying an AR to better understand why Americans seem to love this type of rifle.
 

 The AR that you can buy differs very much from the two AR15s I own. My Colt HBAR would be banned in CA.

[f6gal]

But for urban warfare and short range engagements like what happened in Israel, I think that an AR-15 may be the best tool for the job.

Perhaps, but not in the semi-auto configuration.  In urban warfare with multiple short range targets, an automatic weapon would be my preference.  I like the MP5 or HK53. 

[Skinhead]

We may still have a 2A in the US, although it HAS BEEN INFRINGED upon.  Since the anti gunners haven't succeeded in eliminating the 2A or gun ownership in general (yet), they are making it extremely expensive to buy/own guns or getting permits to carry them.  Their tactic now it to eliminate/tax/reduce availability of ammo.  Never is a long time, and rather than think we could never be attacked or invaded, my advice is to invest in precious metals in the form of guns and lead, just in case.  The anti gunners will be sorry once they realize they need a gun and ammo, but none could be had due to their irrational beliefs and actions to ban them because of feelings.  

I can't speak for everyone, but I feel very secure at any of our rides   as there are plenty of law abiding gun owners attending.  

[scooperhsd]

We may still have a 2A in the US, although it HAS BEEN INFRINGED upon.  Since the anti gunners haven't succeeded in eliminating the 2A or gun ownership in general (yet), they are making it extremely expensive to buy/own guns or getting permits to carry them.  Their tactic now it to eliminate/tax/reduce availability of ammo.  Never is a long time, and rather than think we could never be attacked or invaded, my advice is to invest in precious metals in the form of guns and lead, just in case.  The anti gunners will be sorry once they realize they need a gun and ammo, but none could be had due to their irrational beliefs and actions to ban them because of feelings. 

I can't speak for everyone, but I feel very secure at any of our rides   as there are plenty of law abiding gun owners attending. 

There are several states you DO NOT want to live in if you want to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights - NY, NJ, CT, MD, CA, OR, WA, HI, DE, IL, and unfortunately for you - MI. I'd suggest joining one of several Orgs (maybe more than 1) that are fighting these tyrants .  NAGR, GOA, FPC, your state versions, etc.

[NewValker]

You can add MA to that list.
We got the alphabet lesbian governor trying to infringe upon legal gun owners while the cities have multiple shootings every day…..
SMH
Craig