Legal Question - Power of Attorney

[carolinarider09]

Simple question, well sort of.

Can someone, in a remote location, appear before an appropriate legal person, via teleconference, to confirm and approve a Power of Attorney for a specific purpose and that purpose only.

Thanks. 

[Rams]

Can't answer your question but, I am also involved in a similar situation having to seek legal assistance in order to get a "Guardianship" for a family member that I already have a General Power of Attorney for everything the lawyer could think of.   Interested in learning what you find out.

Rams

[Oss]

I would not do it but NYS allows you to be in one place on video signing a doc that is before the notary as well

I am old school  Sign in front of me with your driver licence or passport

IN NYS also you need 2 witnesses to your signature PLUS the notary

[scooperhsd]

In general (remember I am NOT a lawyer), a POA can be drawn up for a specific purpose as well as general purposes. The question about the remote signing I will leave for those more knowledgeable about these things.

My wife has full, durable power of attorney for her mother, with the exception that we cannot do anything about buying  /selling real estate (Mom's house) for the state of Kansas ( something about that said POA needs to be real specific as to the legal description of the property). She CAN do just about anything else.

With all this said, If my wife was to die before her Mom , I'm in one heck of a pickle regarding the house. After talking to a lawyer, what would happen is that the house would go into probate, and from there onto Mom's surviving siblings. Now, we have talked to at least some of them, and I'm in general in pretty good terms with most / all of them, so they probably would just sign it over to me. But they are under no obligation to do so.

The situation is much better assuming she outlives her Mom. As the sole child, she inherits, and then if she then passes, my wife's estate would come to me.

[Rams]

Not sure how this might apply but, my wife and I have "electronically signed" several legal documents when buying and selling real estate.   I would think the same practice could apply but, the two different state laws my not allow that.

Real Estate uses a service called Docu-Sign.  That may (or may not) work for you in this situation.

Rams  

[carolinarider09]

Thanks for the feedback.  Basically I was checking to see if it was at all possible. 

I did a search and found the link below:

https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2020/03/states-emergency-action-remote-notarization

So, it appears to be possible (or was possible) in all but a few states.  For instance the process expires this year in NC.  And the process never was approved in SC. 

The task is the need to transfer the title of a car in my daughter's name, who now lives in VA, to my grandson who lives in NC.  He has allowed the registration to expire.  My daughter failed to transfer the title to VA (don't know why).  I have been asked to facilitate the transfer of title and get the car properly registered to my grandson.  And no I am not a lawyer, but I am free to travel. 

A POA for me to handle the transfer was something I just ran across this week.  It is specific to that process only.  I had hoped my daughter would do that but did not request she do so (her decision). 

In the name of the notion of experience is the best teacher, I have tired to only facilitate the process by my presence so that my grandson might better understand a process he is not obviously familiar with.

The above is their reason I asked the question.   

[Oss]

never apologize for asking a question

the dumb question is the one you did not ask !

[scooperhsd]

never apologize for asking a question

the dumb question is the one you did not ask !

True dat !!  Especially a LEGAL question !

[Jess from VA]

My daughter failed to transfer the title to VA (don't know why).

Probably to avoid the annual VA personal property taxes (per county).  Careful with that, if they find out, they can hit her for back taxes, penalties and interest.  Taxes of the urban counties are much higher than rural counties.  But all the counties are greedy.  It's been taxable since it was first parked in the county. 

I cannot speak to SC laws/rules.  I would look on line for SC specific advice about POAs.  Except she would be granting one in VA, to be used in NC/SC.  That's probably OK for a simple POA to transfer car title.

Why doesn't she just sign and date the title and mail it to your son in NC (maybe use a USPS shipping envelope for $10 for security).  Then he fills in the his new owner's name and takes it to a NC DMV and applies to transfer title, registration and plates (and proof of insurance).

They may want a bill of sale (find out), and if they do, you can call it a gift, or if that is troublesome, just put a very low value for the car.  If they do want a bill of sale, have her also prepare a simple bill of sale (find a form on line), and sign/date that too and mail it with the title to son in NC.  NC also has personal property taxes, so they would likely use the bill of sale as the taxable value at transfer.  If you go too low on the purported price or call it a gift, they may insist it be valued via Kelly Blue Book or NADA value. 

You might look up Kelly or NADA values on the make, model and year of the car, then lowball that (not by too much) on the bill of sale.  It's all for paperwork purposes, but mums the word.

You should not need a POA for you to do the work in SC, just figure out what each has to do, and tell them how to do it.   

[Jess from VA]

With all this said, If my wife was to die before her Mom , I'm in one heck of a pickle regarding the house.

Scott, the simple solution here is for mom to deed the house to herself and her daughter as equal undivided interest (joint) owners with full rights of survivorship.  Then, as a joint owner, should mom die, daughter remains as owner, with no transfer and no probate (at least on the house) (and no transfer taxes). A quit claim deed is simple but can be trouble and it would be worth going to a title company or attorney to get a full warranty deed prepared.  Once prepared and signed, file it with the county register of deeds.  Done.   (once mom dies, you do it again adding your name as joint owner with wife)

Now mom could rightfully argue that once the home is jointly owned, daughter could demand her half interest in cash at any time (and even sue her for it), but that would not be your or her intentions, and hopefully mom would understand that.  Assuming mom intends for daughter to take the home at her death, this is the way to do it during her lifetime and keep the courts, probate and tax hounds out of it.  

Daughter should also be added as joint owner of all bank and investment accounts, so again, at mom's death everything is owned by daughter and there is no transfer, and no taxes.

Life insurance, if any, you just write down a descending order of named beneficiaries. First to A, then B, then C.

Joint ownership, and named beneficiaries is the way when it is family, and everyone trusts everyone.

(Though in my experience, some family can never be trusted.)  

[scooperhsd]

With all this said, If my wife was to die before her Mom , I'm in one heck of a pickle regarding the house.

Scott, the simple solution here is for mom to deed the house to herself and her daughter as equal undivided interest (joint) owners with full rights of survivorship.  Then, as a joint owner, should mom die, daughter remains as owner, with no transfer and no probate (at least on the house) (and no transfer taxes). A quit claim deed is simple but can be trouble and it would be worth going to a title company or attorney to get a full warranty deed prepared.  Once prepared and signed, file it with the county register of deeds.  Done.   (once mom dies, you do it again adding your name as joint owner with wife)

Now mom could rightfully argue that once the home is jointly owned, daughter could demand her half interest in cash at any time (and even sue her for it), but that would not be your or her intentions, and hopefully mom would understand that.  Assuming mom intends for daughter to take the home at her death, this is the way to do it during her lifetime and keep the courts, probate and tax hounds out of it.  

Daughter should also be added as joint owner of all bank and investment accounts, so again, at mom's death everything is owned by daughter and there is no transfer, and no taxes.

Life insurance, if any, you just write down a descending order of named beneficiaries. First to A, then B, then C.

Joint ownership, and named beneficiaries is the way when it is family, and everyone trusts everyone.

(Though in my experience, some family can never be trusted.)  

Mom's too far down the dementia path for anything like that to be an option -

If ONLY it could be that simple....

I appreciate that you're an attorney ( even if not currently practicing ), but I don't think you were THAT kind of attorney

[Oss]

sound logic
I would only add that if you want to avoid future medicaid (lord forbid) issues consider a family living trust to own the house  Trustee to transfer ownership or sell at a certain point in the future  Think about successor trustees as well

A trust is more expensive than Jess' solution but it does prevent probate keeping things totally private

Consult an elder law atty in your state as rules do vary

[Jess from VA]

I appreciate that you're an attorney ( even if not currently practicing ), but I don't think you were THAT kind of attorney

Scott, I didn't recommend any kind of unethical or illegal actions.  Just normal SOP in cases like yours.

Later, when I've had my coffee and recovered from the shock of a new fresh blanket of snow outside, I will email you my number, and we can talk more about it (if you want).   

[scooperhsd]

What I meant was I didn't think you were a specialist in elder law. No disrespect intended.

We have had conversations with a specialist in KS on the situation, and given Mom's condition, it is what it is. The idea about the trust when the house becomes my wife's is something good to think about.

[carolinarider09]

Just a followup.   I believe, given my circumstances, that I am going to have to bite the bullet and do the POA.  I have five more days until that will be a "next step" requirement.  Luckily my daughter has a Notary on staff where she works so getting the POA in my name won't be hard.  But it will extend the process I am going through.

One more chance at completing the task this coming Monday.  After that..... POA is the only real choice left. 

Thanks for all the feedback. 

Don't know if I mentioned it but I did find this link. 

https://www.nationalnotary.org/notary-bulletin/blog/2020/03/states-emergency-action-remote-notarization

[Rams]

My daughter failed to transfer the title to VA (don't know why).

Why doesn't she just sign and date the title and mail it to your son in NC (maybe use a USPS shipping envelope for $10 for security).  Then he fills in the his new owner's name and takes it to a NC DMV and applies to transfer title, registration and plates (and proof of insurance).

They may want a bill of sale (find out), and if they do, you can call it a gift, or if that is troublesome, just put a very low value for the car.  If they do want a bill of sale, have her also prepare a simple bill of sale (find a form on line), and sign/date that too and mail it with the title to son in NC.  NC also has personal property taxes, so they would likely use the bill of sale as the taxable value at transfer.  If you go too low on the purported price or call it a gift, they may insist it be valued via Kelly Blue Book or NADA value.  

You might look up Kelly or NADA values on the make, model and year of the car, then lowball that (not by too much) on the bill of sale.  It's all for paperwork purposes, but mums the word.

You should not need a POA for you to do the work in SC, just figure out what each has to do, and tell them how to do it.  

Understanding that Carolina didn't ask but, this seems to be the best way to get this settled IMHO.


Rams  

[carolinarider09]

My daughter failed to transfer the title to VA (don't know why).

Why doesn't she just sign and date the title and mail it to your son in NC (maybe use a USPS shipping envelope for $10 for security).  Then he fills in the his new owner's name and takes it to a NC DMV and applies to transfer title, registration and plates (and proof of insurance).

They may want a bill of sale (find out), and if they do, you can call it a gift, or if that is troublesome, just put a very low value for the car.  If they do want a bill of sale, have her also prepare a simple bill of sale (find a form on line), and sign/date that too and mail it with the title to son in NC.  NC also has personal property taxes, so they would likely use the bill of sale as the taxable value at transfer.  If you go too low on the purported price or call it a gift, they may insist it be valued via Kelly Blue Book or NADA value. 

You might look up Kelly or NADA values on the make, model and year of the car, then lowball that (not by too much) on the bill of sale.  It's all for paperwork purposes, but mums the word.

You should not need a POA for you to do the work in SC, just figure out what each has to do, and tell them how to do it.   

Understanding that Carolina didn't ask but, this seems to be the best way to get this settled IMHO.
If the grandson doesn't have the money, granddad could help him out but, this may be the time to provide some tough love.   Grandson needs to figure out that he can't live off mom or his grandparents forever.   While this isn't my problem to workout, this is probably how I would handle it.   Carolina may not agree and that's alright.   Obviously, we (or I) don't know the whole story, only what we've been told.  We all have to figure out what's best for us.  Absolutely, no intent on my part to stick my nose into another family's business.

Rams   

That is the course we ended up with.   The issue revolves around the forms and stuff.

We found (well I did) a same day title place in NC.  We (Grandson and I ) stopped by there Thursday a week ago.  The lady was nice and gave us a form to complete. 

Prior to that I found some needed forms online.  I did not discuss them with the lady at the NCDMV, but did include them in the FedEx envelope we (grandson and I) sent my daughter on that Thursday afternoon.   

She completed the forms as best she could (some data like current Odo reading was not available to her) and returned them to me via FedEx Next day service (which took three days to get here, sent out Monday PM arrived here Thursday PM).   

Just for the record, the plates on the car expired in 2022.  NC requires an emission inspection within 90 days of getting the car licensed.  Grandson did that in October. Ninety days is up this coming Wednesday.

The lady, at the NCDMV, marked the areas that needed to be filled with two colors.  One for daughter and one for grandson.  I have that document now and it has been notarized (and yes, since my grandson has not filled in his part, the notary could be "objected to" maybe). 

And that is why I asked the question.  Since getting them together was not going to happen (even though  they are only 220 miles apart), I ended up in charge and I did not want to drive 400 miles to get a POA from my daughter.

However, the POA would allow me to act in her stead which.....  might be necessary because, in doing my research, I found a third form that might need to be completed.

But suppose there is another form.  The lady at the NCDMV only gave us the one form.

Anyway.   I will return to NC Monday, next week to attempt to complete the task and get my grandson and his car legally on the road again.

Oh... you know another "funny" thing.  I don't know about today, but when the grandson was going to school cursive was not really taught.  I think it is today.  But, if you can't do cursive, how are you expected to provide a "signature" on a document. 

And, maybe I was in error.  I don't have to be present to receive a POA.  Just has to have my name on it. 

Just in case you are interested:  https://mycursive.com/the-14-states-that-require-cursive-writing-state-by-state/#google_vignette

[Jess from VA]

I can cursive my signature fine (plenty of practice).  While similar, I have one signature that is close to unreadable, and another which is very readable, depending on who is getting the document, and for what purpose. 

Beyond my signature however, I am terrible at cursive, having abandoned it entirely in undergrad (because I had a hard time reading my own class notes to study), in favor of clear printing (with lots of abbreviations), which is all I have used from then until present day (about 50 yrs).

They required I cursive my written oath of membership to the MI State Bar (having passed the Bar, and been admitted), and it looked like a 3rd grader did it.  But they didn't fail me on my penmanship.   

[carolinarider09]

My cursive has gotten really bad.  After looking at the "X's" you see on some documents, and looking at some of the signatures used by the "upper crust", mine does not have a lot of letters in it. 

I do feel guilty that it would take me 30 to 45 seconds to really sign my full name in cursive.