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Jeff K
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« on: February 20, 2010, 07:57:52 AM » |
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I was just wondering...
Supercharger kits are still being sold...
If the Dyna ignition is no longer available...
What are the "new guys" doing, going to do, for ignition retard in boost?
Since both of mine are controlled by the EMU for the EFI it hasn't been an issue for me. But I've been thinking about what "others" are doing?
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pvan
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 09:24:33 AM » |
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My guess is the new guys who buy a blower will probably have to find a used Dyna module. At one point in time those modules were pretty popular so I guess they are around if a guy looked. Frankly I doubt that many guys will be adding blowers on bikes that are now 7 + years old don't you think?
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Ratdog
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2010, 10:08:16 AM » |
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but, someone had made their own trigger wheel mod to advance timing by filing the OEM one so it could be rotated a little bit. I suppose a feller could do the same (but in the other direction) to get a few degrees of retard (or, he could just vote Dem and have all the... oh, never mind).  |
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Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you. - Benjamin Franklin. If it ain't Zesty, it's only a two-tone.  |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 10:42:42 AM » |
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but, someone had made their own trigger wheel mod to advance timing by filing the OEM one so it could be rotated a little bit. I suppose a feller could do the same (but in the other direction) to get a few degrees of retard (or, he could just vote Dem and have all the... oh, never mind). You need the advance at normal vacuum, otherwise the performance and mileage will suffer. I was thinking on the line of... Retard your timing at the trigger wheel, and maybe do an ECT mod to bring it back to normal advance? |
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dreamaker
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 11:17:11 AM » |
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Answer a question for me, at what point does the ignition have to retard for the blower. How much boost? I know little about the ignition/blower setup.
Dan
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Ratdog
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 11:22:54 AM » |
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but, someone had made their own trigger wheel mod to advance timing by filing the OEM one so it could be rotated a little bit. I suppose a feller could do the same (but in the other direction) to get a few degrees of retard (or, he could just vote Dem and have all the... oh, never mind). You need the advance at normal vacuum, otherwise the performance and mileage will suffer. I was thinking on the line of... Retard your timing at the trigger wheel, and maybe do an ECT mod to bring it back to normal advance? Why not? There's gotta be a pocket protector type 'round here that would know how to make it happen. M'be a piggie-backed plug/play adapter of some sort? |
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Make yourselves sheep, and the wolves will eat you. - Benjamin Franklin. If it ain't Zesty, it's only a two-tone. |
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Jeff K
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2010, 11:43:34 AM » |
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Answer a question for me, at what point does the ignition have to retard for the blower. How much boost? I know little about the ignition/blower setup.
Dan
If you don't retard the timing 4-5 degrees at about 2+ psi of boost the motor will sound like its full of marbles. Shortly thereafter you will be purchasing a nice new set of forged pistons.  I ran mine on a fuel pressure switch, when it got any boost at all it would ground the Dyna and retard the timing 5 degrees. |
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dreamaker
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 12:37:33 PM » |
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Bare with me on this, I do this in my head and when I try to put it words it sometimes don't make sense. First can the ECT mode be retarded?
Here is what I am thinking. Let say I have a retarded trigger wheel and ECT mode and a pressure switch in the intake manifold. I would get a 30amp. relay and connect a terminal of the coil of the relay to the pressure switch and the other to a 12v source. On the ECT mode splice the relay to the normally closed side.
So my point is when the boost kicks in the pressure switch and complete the circuit and activates the coil in the relay and cuts the circuit to the ECT and retards the ignition via trigger wheel.
Am I warm yet, does it make sense.
Dan
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fstsix
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2010, 02:12:16 PM » |
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Thinking the same thing what i going to do when my Dyna breaks again? i was reading the post of the ECM mod and was thinking of the remote Pot control that Friagabi had posted, if the Hobs pressure switch that we use to detect boost could be incorporated in this mod to cancel timing advance out could this be a option? here is his post> Friagabi
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Re: ECT mod
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 06:07:07 PM »
Reply with quoteQuote
I ride a 2KIS so all colors are for that model. Check Chet's wiring in Shop Talk for your colors.
The goal of this change is to tell the engine control module that the engine is cold when it is actually hot.
The control module does this by looking into the engine coolant tempature sensor and reading it's resistance.
Factory says that when the engine is 68' the resistance will be between 2000 and 3000 ohms
Factory says that when the engine is at 176' the resistance will be between 200 and 400 ohms
The module looks into this circuit from under the seat behind the overflow tank. So, adding resistance or reducing resistance anywhere from the module to the sensor will do the trick. So will a broken wire anywhere along this route.
So if putting the pot in the neck cover is a hard place to reach you can find the same wire at the engine control module and mount the pot closer to the seat. If you solder the connections you can mount the control on the handle bars or anywhere else you want.
The sensor has two wires going to it. We will talk about the ground wire first. Mine is Green/Black it also serves for the ground for the ign sensors. This circuit should be left intact. It is in fact a ground but it is bonded to the control module. Another way to say this is that this ground is dedicated to the engine control module. It is the basis for the ground the control module uses. If you cut it and do not solider the connection together when you repair it you can introduce some unusual problems with the engine control module.
The other wire is the wire that the control module looks into to read the resistance of the coolant sensor. This is the wire that we want to change the resistance of. on my bike it is Pink/White
Never put 12 volts on either of these two wires. If you happen to ground the Pink/White wire the module will think that the engine is real cold.
When I first did this change I had a question, did the module see the resistance as a changing smooth ramp or was the mapping of the module a saw tooth ramp. The answer is that the module sees a ramp of smooth resistance increase or decrease. As you change the resistance the module also smoothly changes the ign advance. At least within the mapping that the factory built in.
The graphs of the factory module (both hot and cold) used to be on the aftermarket engine control module site.
Back to what is going on with the pot as installed into the sensor circuit. When the engine is hot the engine control module retards the ign timing. If you lie to the module it will advance the ign timing thinking that the engine is cold.
When the engine is cold the resistance of the sensor is 2 to 3 thousand ohms. If you want to lie to the engine control module and tell it that the engine is cold all that you have to do is add a 3.3K ohm resistor from radio shack and the control module will advance the ign timing as far as the factory will allow.
If you want to adjust the timing then use a pot instead of the fixed resistor. Half of the resistance is not actually half of the advance. I would reccomend that you pull the inspection cover in the center of the tming belt cover and use a timing light to watch the marks while you decide just where the timing is going when you twist the knob.
When I first did this mod I passed on the pot. Instead I used two fixed resistors, two relays, two toggle switches, and indcator LED's so I could tell when I asked for half of the advancement or the full advancement on a hot engine.
If I were to do it again I would use one toggle switch and one resistor. Either a factory setting or the full advancement allowed. Simple, easy and repeatable. and I would have cut into the harness close the the engine control module so the switch could be between my legs. Easy to reach and operate.
Hope this helps.
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 05:20:52 PM by fstsix »
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dreamaker
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2010, 03:57:54 AM » |
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Answer a question for me, at what point does the ignition have to retard for the blower. How much boost? I know little about the ignition/blower setup.
Dan
If you don't retard the timing 4-5 degrees at about 2+ psi of boost the motor will sound like its full of marbles. Shortly thereafter you will be purchasing a nice new set of forged pistons. I ran mine on a fuel pressure switch, when it got any boost at all it would ground the Dyna and retard the timing 5 degrees. See if I understand this correctly, correct me if I am wrong. So standard timing is 4deg. which would be 4deg. BEFORE top dead center, when the Dyna retards 5deg. the timing would be 1deg. AFTER top dead center correct. Dan |
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Friagabi
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2010, 05:11:19 PM » |
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Go and get a graph of the engine curves. Some of the dyna charts should still be around also.
Here is what you will find, The ecm does not advance the ign. The full advance is built into the engine by the trigger wheel. and pick-up coils.
Now what the ECM does is retard the ign when needed. It's called maping of the computer. The ECM for the IS is mapped differently than the ECM for the other models.
Compare all of the charts and graphs and find the most advance listed and that is what the engine and trigger wheel will give. Anything less is a product of the ECM delaying the firing point.
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