Dump Truck Signage

[Willow]

I was on the flyway and came behind a dump truck.  On its back was a sign I had seen many times before.  It read, "Stay back 300 feet.  Not responsible for damage."

So for our lawyers I have a question.  Does posting that sign actually relieve them of responsibility should damage occur from something coming off that vehicle?

[Jess from VA]

I'm not entirely sure.

I would say that it does not eliminate responsibility.  Rather it is evidence that the trucking company knows their trucks cause road damage and throw rocks.  But it is also evidence they are trying to to not cause road damage and warning people about it and to stay back.

Proving a damaged vehicle was or was not 300 feet back would not be easy (except maybe cameras, if any).  I don't think you need to be a football field back to be safe.

If the company could offer good evidence a driver was right behind the truck (and can read English) a jury might reasonably find the truck company not responsible.

There's also the possibility a driver right behind a truck who got his windshield cracked might feel stupid enough about it to make no claim against the company (and just turn it in to his insurance company, who if they knew the facts could then lay their own claim against the company; subrogation of claim).

So I think it does not eliminate responsibility, but it's a good idea for the company to put the signs on anyway, to limit if not eliminate liability.  The false statement that they 'are not responsible for damage' is a misstatement of law but not an actionable one.  

No charge.   (I can't charge, or I'd be guilty of practicing without a license).  

There are a thousand big dump trucks hauling stone from several quarries around here, and I stay way back on bikes and in my truck.  I don't know about 300 feet.  

I ride right past this all the time.

[old2soon]

     Flat bed I was following some years back a piece of steel came off his trailer bounced 2 or 3 times and I heard this loud Thunk under my truck and decided after someone on the C B said I was streaming oil decided to pull over and check it out. That Thunk I heard was the piece of steel contacting and punching a hole in the transmission case. This was on an International cab over I was wheelin at the time. Had the name of the carrier both unit numbers and the carriers 800 # BUT I checked back with my company and company said NO never got a penny from the other company. Carl seen similar signs all over AMERICA when i was over the road. The construction outfit I drove for in Colorado had similar signs on the end dumps and the bottom dumps. Have like Zero Idea if they actually mean anything at all. RIDE SAFE.

[Hook#3287]

I thought I heard that is regulated at the state level, where some states allow exemption from liability if the sign is posted.

Not sure.

But can a state release liability on a interstate highway?

[Chrisj CMA]

If I can’t get around any “high risk” truck I stay behind at least 300’. Basically if I can’t get around neither will be the vehicle that passes me and is now stuck behind the dangerous situation.

[scooperhsd]

I don't know about 300 feet, but I definitely do not tailgate trucks with that sign.

[da prez]

  The law (?) reads , Insecure load. The driver is responsible for the integrity of material.  I drove a gravel hauler , both six wheeler and semi. I also hauled over size ,over weight permit moves.
  Anyone could and would claim windshield damage from debris.
  If someone stayed back 300 feet , there would be many cages filling in the footage.
 Our company never paid any claim as far as I know.

                                                        da prez

[Serk]

From a non-VRCC related lawyer friend of mine many years ago, I was told the sign isn't really the issue, the hard part is proving the item that hits you indeed fell off the truck and wasn't kicked up by the truck.

Evidently, at least many years ago according to one professional shyster, if the debris was on the road and kicked up by the truck it's not the truck's fault. If the item did indeed fall off the truck then it is the truck's fault. But it's very difficult to prove which it is, and generally the damage dollar amount are low enough no one wants to spend the time and resources trying to fight it.

I have been known, when on the bike, to take extreme measures to get around said vehicles. Was once on a 2 lane freeway, with a pair of those side by side one going 1/100th of a MPH faster than the other presumably passing him while I was behind them getting pelted with pebbles.

There was an opening on the shoulder, and I availed myself of the power of the flat 6 to quickly use the temporary third lane to make them someone else's problem and no longer mine.

It is frustrating. I paid to have the badly cracked windshield on my primary cage replaced in December. By April it already has a new crack in it.... 

(And that's why I ride with a windshield on my bike. Would rather replace that than pay for a nose job  )

[John Schmidt]

I'm not entirely sure.

I would say that it does not eliminate responsibility.  Rather it is evidence that the trucking company knows their trucks cause road damage and throw rocks.  But it is also evidence they are trying to to not cause road damage and warning people about it and to stay back.

Proving a damaged vehicle was or was not 300 feet back would not be easy (except maybe cameras, if any).  I don't think you need to be a football field back to be safe.

If the company could offer good evidence a driver was right behind the truck (and can read English) a jury might reasonably find the truck company not responsible.

There's also the possibility a driver right behind a truck who got his windshield cracked might feel stupid enough about it to make no claim against the company (and just turn it in to his insurance company, who if they knew the facts could then lay their own claim against the company; subrogation of claim).

So I think it does not eliminate responsibility, but it's a good idea for the company to put the signs on anyway, to limit if not eliminate liability.  The false statement that they 'are not responsible for damage' is a misstatement of law but not an actionable one.  

No charge.   (I can't charge, or I'd be guilty of practicing without a license).  

There are a thousand big dump trucks hauling stone from several quarries around here, and I stay way back on bikes and in my truck.  I don't know about 300 feet.  

I ride right past this all the time.

Jess, how can you tell it's the same twig? 

[RP#62]

Those signs have sent me down a couple of lines of thought.  When I first saw one - the one that says "Stay back 300', not responsible for broken windshields", I thought wow, I wonder if that works.  If so, I'd like to put one on my truck and if anyone follows too close, start chunking rocks at them and if anything is said, tell them, well, you were warned. 

The other sign didn't say stay back 300', it said "Construction vehicle, do not follow".  That one started me wondering why he didn't want me to follow him - where is he going?  What is he up to?  I think I'm going to follow him.

This is my favorite one though.  I was thinking about putting it on the back of my army truck.



RP

[Rams]

I know of people who took load hauling drivers to small claim court in KS and won when they were able to prove something came off a vehicle/trailer and hit their vehicle.  

Some states require loads like gravel, dirt and trash to be covered just to get on the road, although it doesn't appear to be enforced much.  Reference the distance sign, absolutely no clue but, the thought of needing a dash cam makes sense to me to prove your case.

Rams

[Jess from VA]

Requiring the covering or tying down of loads is also very common.  But I don't think that includes high wall dump trucks.

I had occasion to have a sofa bounce out of a harry homeowner moving trailer once on the bike.  I managed to miss it.  Then rode up to the driver and yelled that he left a sofa back there in the street.  

I also will pass (double yellow or not) in the 3 seconds it takes on a Valk, if there's no coppers in sight.

That picture of the big stone quarry I posted above is right at one entrance to the Manassas National Battlefield Park I ride through all the time, and it is patrolled by National Park Police, not the County.  But you will only see one once a year out there.  And that's where the 100 giant gravel trucks are every day.  So I pass at will, traffic permitting.  I'm not the only one doing it.  

Now you get 3-5 of them in a row, passing gets tricky, and then it's stay back and poke along.











Of course the Union called them the battles of Manassas (1 & 2), but the Confederates called them the battles of Bull Run.  This is the Bull Run creek that runs through there.


I've had evil thoughts about packing one of the old cannon out there full of black powder and rocks and trying to blow out a dump truck windshield.  But the old cannon would probably blow up.  And you could get in serious trouble (so it's only a thought). 

[Willow]

Apparently I don't communicate as well as I think I do.  I was not asking if one should stay back or get close.  I certainly  wasn't asking whether one should ride behind a windscreen.     I was only curious as to whether posting that sign truly does relieve the company or driver of responsibility.

Thank you, Jess, for your input.

RP, your mind and mine follow similar paths.

[Jess from VA]

You're welcome Carl.

I do my best.  And I enjoy the mental exercise.

But if someone brings me a 40 page contract to review, I tell them sorry but my eyes are failing.  


Jess, how can you tell it's the same twig?  Grin

What twig?   

[Moonshot_1]

I was on the flyway and came behind a dump truck.  On its back was a sign I had seen many times before.  It read, "Stay back 300 feet.  Not responsible for damage."

So for our lawyers I have a question.  Does posting that sign actually relieve them of responsibility should damage occur from something coming off that vehicle?

I'm not a lawyer but I have stayed in some pretty cool hotels so...my 2 cents

If said truck had it's load secured and on the road in accordance to state and federal law, and basic standards for the type of load being carried, the posting would be a clear warning to others and relieve them of said responsibility should something occur that would cause damage within the warning area.

But if said truck was a loaded crap show, no signage would relieve them of their failure to secure the load properly.

To the ability to prove such a thing would require stays in hotels way cooler than I could ever afford.

[crow]

I put a.       Watch out for motorcycles.  Sticker on our crew cab, Duke Energy,   had to remove it.

[Serk]

A thousand humble apologies, was trying to patriciate in the conversation and let it flow where it might.

Per several article analyzing the issue, the signs are basically legally meaningless, however the burden of proof falls on the victim to prove the destructive item did indeed come from the truck and wasn't kicked up from the road.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10350622/those-signs-on-the-back-of-rock-trucks-are-essentially-legally-meaningless/

https://www.cbs17.com/news/cbs17-investigates/whos-responsible-when-dump-truck-debris-cracks-your-windshield-its-complicated/

"“Those signs have zero legal effect,” says McCabe. “They are not binding at all. It’s fraudulent, it’s deceptive and it’s false that they are not responsible.”"

https://wpln.org/post/curious-nashville-stay-back-100-feet-heres-the-truth-about-dump-truck-liability-on-tennessee-roads/

"“In general, those signs that say ‘keep back 100 feet’ on dump trucks, they’re just signs,” says Isaac Kimes, a Nashville attorney who specializes in civil litigation. “They have the appearance of avoiding or waiving legal responsibility, but they are just signs.”"

https://www.investigatetv.com/2024/08/19/rocky-road-who-is-responsible-when-rocks-debris-dump-truck-damage-your-vehicle/

"“They say they’re not responsible for objects coming from the road,” Lampros said. “That’s true. Nobody is, but they are responsible for objects coming from their trucks if they fail to secure their load properly.”

The problem is proving the rock came from the truck and not the road."

[old2soon]

A thousand humble apologies, was trying to patriciate in the conversation and let it flow where it might.

Per several article analyzing the issue, the signs are basically legally meaningless, however the burden of proof falls on the victim to prove the destructive item did indeed come from the truck and wasn't kicked up from the road.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10350622/those-signs-on-the-back-of-rock-trucks-are-essentially-legally-meaningless/

https://www.cbs17.com/news/cbs17-investigates/whos-responsible-when-dump-truck-debris-cracks-your-windshield-its-complicated/

"“Those signs have zero legal effect,” says McCabe. “They are not binding at all. It’s fraudulent, it’s deceptive and it’s false that they are not responsible.”"

https://wpln.org/post/curious-nashville-stay-back-100-feet-heres-the-truth-about-dump-truck-liability-on-tennessee-roads/

"“In general, those signs that say ‘keep back 100 feet’ on dump trucks, they’re just signs,” says Isaac Kimes, a Nashville attorney who specializes in civil litigation. “They have the appearance of avoiding or waiving legal responsibility, but they are just signs.”"

https://www.investigatetv.com/2024/08/19/rocky-road-who-is-responsible-when-rocks-debris-dump-truck-damage-your-vehicle/

"“They say they’re not responsible for objects coming from the road,” Lampros said. “That’s true. Nobody is, but they are responsible for objects coming from their trucks if they fail to secure their load properly.”

The problem is proving the rock came from the truck and not the road."

       Could be the very WHY of so many folks using GoPros and similar recording devices. I would also as a WA A G think this new A I stuff could manipulate the truth. RIDE SAFE.

[da prez]

  DO NOT PUT YOUR FINGER IN THE RUNNING FAN. You have been warned.

                                        da prez

  If you can not read this warning , use your phone app.

[Pluggy]

Not lucky....  Headed home on US1 going slightly faster than the posted 55.  A dump truck going about 75 passed us and tossed a rock at the windshield.  The NC license tag is in the front of a dump truck, so I couldn't get the number.  As there was some traffic, it was impossible to catch him.  Yes, it had "the sign".
 
My cost was less than our $500 deductable.

Lucky....  I was 21, driving in the snow in Virginia.  Whack, some sort of ice ball hit the front of my car.  I figured there would be damage to the grille and body.  Turns out that ice rock hit the left headlight and the rest of the car was undamaged.  The replacement light was $1.99 at Kmart.

[Jess from VA]

I like truckers (CDL drivers).  They are mostly good guys (few gals), hard workers and excellent drivers.

But the days when they were all good drivers are gone.  There are some (I think mostly younger) guys who are NOT good drivers at all, go too fast and drive through traffic whipping around, changing lanes and scare and hazard the ordinary people (like me).   They aren't hard to spot.

Once at 17 or so working at a gas station, I had occasion to need to drive a bigger truck with complex shifter (not a semi, but big).  I just needed to move it down the road a half mile over a bunch of RR tracks to the station.  I got it into low 2d and chugged along at about 15mph without incident.     

[Robert]

Windshields in Florida by law are covered 100% paint and rock chips, sand on the road sandblasting the finish off, not so much. Proving the object came from that truck is why cameras are there.

[old2soon]

I like truckers (CDL drivers).  They are mostly good guys (few gals), hard workers and excellent drivers.

But the days when they were all good drivers are gone.  There are some (I think mostly younger) guys who are NOT good drivers at all, go too fast and drive through traffic whipping around, changing lanes and scare and hazard the ordinary people (like me).   They aren't hard to spot.

Once at 17 or so working at a gas station, I had occasion to need to drive a bigger truck with complex shifter (not a semi, but big).  I just needed to move it down the road a half mile over a bunch of RR tracks to the station.  I got it into low 2d and chugged along at about 15mph without incident.     

     Jess been reired from 18 wheeler Driving a bit over 16 year now and I'm here to tell ya those steering wheel holders started showing up long Before i retired. Those s w h GAVE/GIVE a bad name for Real Truck Drivers. I was Taught and Learned the Correct way from the git go. And NO I was Nowhere Near a perfect driver BUT I got he job done SAFELY and On time more often than not. Long since gone but I've had Safety Awards from EVERY Company I've driven for. And in All the years I drove 18 wheelers I've gotten Exactly 2 high speed driving awards and one of them I Still question to this very day!  Did I deserve more than 2? YUPPERS no doubt! Also driven a couple triple digit 18 wheelers!  And fer those that Do wunder three digits to the LEFT of the decimal point!  RIDE SAFE.