DIY well issue; chasing my tail

[Jersey mike]

Ok so if anyone has some feedback I’d appreciate any insight.

After writing everything below, it wasn’t supposed to be that long, while trying to give details of issue and steps taken I got a little too far into details.

To start this is something I’ve procrastinated on for about 5 years.

A little about the system;

I have a shallow well, 46’ deep.

23 year ago a new stainless steel point (and galvanized piping) and Goulds 3/4HP jet pump installed.

Point is 2”. Galvanized pipeline is 1-1/4”. Located just about 15’ from house, inside a 2”(?) casing.

At the turn leading into the house is a “T”. One line 1” black plastic pipe leads into house (basement) and pump, the other leads up appx 30” to just below grade which is 1-1/4” PVC with a threaded cap.

System has a bladder type pressure tank (20? Gallon) which is well over 32 years old. It was in the house when we bought it 31+ years ago.



The issue;

System is not giving me pressure and volume. Currently can pump about 4 GPM. When new it was over 6 and slowly went to about 5 GPM.

Over the last few years the system has strained to get to cutoff pressure which I’ve had to slowly decrease at pressure switch so it would shut off.

Recent work completed;

2 separate doses of Muriatic acid and let sit for a week.

1st dose had big reaction, I flushed out all kinds of black sludge and then rust particles lifted out when pumping water back in.

Through the PVC pipe at the surface I’m able to drop a 5/8” garden hose with an old fashioned brass spray nozzle attached that is supplied by our city water supply so I have strong spray and good volume bung injected into the system with tight clearance inside the 1-1/4” pipe.

I spent a good part of the day basically trying to pressure wash the inside of the pipe and point as well as flood the point with fresh clean water and clear away any silt build up. Over the course of the day i probably pumped about 200 gallons down there.

When done though, I did not see any results for the main problem so I did a second Muriatic acid treatment. This time I dropped the garden hose down to the point and pulled back about 5’ once the hose stopped. I then poured the acid into the hose very slowly, about 5 minutes so it reached the point specifically. When the gallon was empty I waited over 5 minutes and then removed the hose very slowly to ensure the acid stayed down at the point.

I waited another week and repeated the process like the first time, but this time there was no overflow at the top. Everything was basically being flushed out like a drain. I could not get the system to over flow for more than a few seconds and with the hose at the bottom and running wide open there was no sign the water was rising in the piping, so the water was going somewhere and quickly. This time the flushing was not as long as the first but still probably pumped another 75 gallons or so into the system.


So after all that, I’m still not getting volume and pressure.

I’ve drained the tank and removed some gunk. I’ve re-pressurized the tank, but I could be low on air pressure. The tank reads the unit was pressurized to 18PSI. Over the years I’ve never checked that aspect of the tank. To be honest I didn’t knkw you were supposed to.

When I first checked it was basically not reading anything, maybe 5 PSI.

The current setting on the pump is at 5/30 and is still straining to shut off at 30PSI. The air pressure in the tank I set at 19PSI.

With the system running wide open 5/8” hose the water pressure drops to 5 PSI. When I shut off water to the hose it quickly jumps to 20 PSI but strains to get above that. Once the system gets to 20PSI it will run at that 20PSI for about a minute then quickly drop to appx 5 PSI.

The Pump says (under the cover) the cut off switch is supposed to be 30/50.

The tank is holding pressure, so I’m guessing even at over 31 years old, the bladder is still in good shape, but I’m wondering if the bladder age is a problem.

The front of the jet pump has clean out bolts which I’ve removed and cleaned out junk inside as well as I cleaned out the water supply line and ports for the pressure switch. I also rigged up some brass pipe so I could thread into the bolt locations and run the pump to flush out the inside.

The only thing I haven’t done is remove the supply plumbing inside the house which is a 2” long galvanized barb (attached to 1” black plastic piping from outside), then a brass check valve with a vacuum gauge installed on top, then a galvanized street elbow and a short nipple leading into the pump supply.

So after all this I’m still not getting volume, not getting good pressure and still cannot fill the tank quickly. The pump is straining to achieve anything above 20 PSI.


So, aside from the internal plumbing of check valve, black plastic supply pipe and galvanized pipe, what could be something I’ve overlooked, if anyone has gotten this far?


I’ve read bladder type tanks are good for about 30 years (this tank is well over 30 years, it could be close to 40-50 years) and the bladder could collapse. I’m still not quite sure just how much the bladder deflates when water leaves the tank.

I’ve run a couple hundred gallons of water through the system since doing all the work, just letting the hose run wide open as well as using the shutoff valve to limit water so the pump is running at the 20 PSI level. When doing this the pump runs warm, not hot to the touch. It does get hotter when trying to get to the 30 PSI shut off.

I’m wondering if I need to drain the tank again, and reset the tank pressure to 28 instead of 18 that I have it at.

[h13man]

My last bladder took a pebble hole thus l put a coarse SS filter before the bladder. My pump is submersible thus 50 psi in the bladder. The one with the pebble hole I used Slime in it and kept pressure another year. My switch is set at 30/50 psi. and the well is 35 ft. deep.

[Jersey mike]

I found a small collection of water under the shaft on the intake side of the pump, nothing drastic, less than an ounce.

I think I’m going to drain the pump again and fill with some white vinegar and let it sit for 24 hours and see what happens. Perhaps an impeller is clogged or the jet has buildup or a clog.

If I get some results of rust or more buildup releasing I’ll move up to some CLR and go from there.

[Hook#3287]

I have some experience with deep wells, I've replaced both my deep (280') pump and my pressure tank twice due to the horrible hard water in my area.  Iron.

While the tanks have never been taken apart, their a sealed unit, I believe the bladder separating air from liquid is the usual failure point.  Mine rusted out, but could be because of the location next to my salt fueled water softener, IDK.

Never tried it, but if you remove the Schrader valve on the tank and water vapor comes out, I'd think that would mean the bladder is comprised.

I don't remember what pressure the tank should being running, but 5lbs is definitely not enough.

They are available at any big box or plumbing store and are relatively easy to replace.

But with all things plumbing, you touch it here and 10' away it leaks 

[Jersey mike]

I have some experience with deep wells, I've replaced both my deep (280') pump and my pressure tank twice due to the horrible hard water in my area.  Iron.

While the tanks have never been taken apart, their a sealed unit, I believe the bladder separating air from liquid is the usual failure point.  Mine rusted out, but could be because of the location next to my salt fueled water softener, IDK.

Never tried it, but if you remove the Schrader valve on the tank and water vapor comes out, I'd think that would mean the bladder is comprised.

I don't remember what pressure the tank should being running, but 5lbs is definitely not enough.

They are available at any big box or plumbing store and are relatively easy to replace.

But with all things plumbing, you touch it here and 10' away it leaks 

I tested the valve, it has a very, very slight leak even after tightening it. Any loss of pressure from the valve at this point is not significant enough to gauge off a tire gauge.

I did pump up the tank pressure (with a bicycle pump) to almost 25 PSI and test to see if water came out but there was nothing, just what I’d consider slight common condensation.


My pump sits atop the (standing vertically) pressure tank so changing the tank will require pump and plumbing breakdown and reassembly.

I’m considering using my city water to try and fill the bladder by attaching to gate valve at the drain and pumping water in to see what happens.

One thing I’m not is good with plumbing so any replacement will need the pros.

[scooperhsd]

Galvanized pipe = BAD !!! Had a shower faucet (behind a wall) rust out using a well that had what I thought was good , realitively neutral well water.

I take it this well is used only for irrigation ?  Still, you want the pump to run for a minimum of 1 minute, but the better way to size your pressure tank is that the drawdown is at least as much as your well can pump out in a minute - i.e. pump can do 6 GPM => tank drawdown at least 6 gallons. Yes - this means that most oldtimers sized their pressure tanks too small  - in some cases WAY TOO small.

[F6Dave]

I have a 600' well with the pump set at 400'. The water level is about 200' but that varies by the season.

My 42 gallon pressure tank failed 2 years ago after about 30 years. It is a fiberglass tank with some kind of plastic bladder. I knew I had a problem when I could see bubbles in the water as it ran through my sediment filter, which has a clear housing. Replacements only cost a few hundred bucks and aren't difficult to install as they only have a single connection.

A neighbor installed two tanks. That lets the pump cycle on and off less, which is easier on the motor.

[Jersey mike]

Yes, this well is for outdoor use only…irrigation, car/bike washing, etc.


I do notice some bubbles in the water when hose is in bucket and when hose is out and running I do hear the sound of bubbles escaping. That’s a great hint. THANK YOU! 

It seems like I’m going to need a new pressure tank and if that’s the case I might as well go for the new pump too.

From what I can tell by banging on the tank, only the bottom 1/3 has water in it.

It stands about 4’ overall. There’s a section at the bottom, like a built in stand where the water inlet is, then it breaks down to 3 equal sections above that.

Appreciate the input, thanks and keep it coming if anyone else wants to chime in as well.

[Cracker Jack]

Jersey, in no way can the bladder in the tank affect or contribute to the problems/symptoms you are describing. The bladder simply provides an interface between the water and air in the tank to keep the air in the tank to prevent the pump from short cycling. A damaged bladder, or NO bladder would allow the trapped air to be absorbed by the water and escape. The result would cause the pump cycle to become shorter over time and periodically the air would need to be replaced to prevent short cycling of the pump.

In my opinion, you have a pump problem. Most likely, either the impeller blades are worn or corroded away by corrosion or abrasion if the water contains sand or other grit. The other likely cause would be pump internal leakage because of a worn-out impeller creating excessive clearances. Either one or both would cause your symptoms. The fact that you have water leakage at the pump shaft is likely from a bad shaft seal and would explain the bubbles because of the pump pulling air while running.