My AO Smith gas water heater died

[Jess from VA]

at 7-8 years old.

It could have been fixed rather than replaced, but a wait for parts (and hot water), and not all that much cheaper than to replace, and no new warranty.  And I want hot water today, not next week.

The American Standard that came with my house lasted some 30 years.  And this will be my third replacement since it died.  AO Smith is a top brand, but made in China.

Our city water is some of the cleanest in the nation, and not hard or full of minerals, but when I tried to drain it down while the plumbers are out getting the new one, the sediment clogged the drain hose up, repeatedly.

I live alone, and thought maybe going to a 30gal instead of a 40gal would be cost effective.  I use hot water to shower (4 minutes), shave, and maybe one load of laundry a week; that's it.  It takes so long for hot water to get to the kitchen (other side of the small house), my few dishes are clean before hot water can get there (I threw my dishwasher out when I bought this house).  But the 30s are so underused, the supply houses charge more for them than the 40s. 

Yesterday's shower was quite chilly, and as quick as I could do it.   

The same plumbing company, the same water heater (and it's all set up with gas line and exhaust piping all in place), and the cost is up exactly $1K from the last install in 2017.

If it's not one thing, it's another.   

 

[Chrisj CMA]

If it's not one thing, it's another.   tickedoff crazy2

Very true. I doubt it will ever change. lol

[Jess from VA]

And done.

Jim, my plumber, 6'4" 240, 62, former HS quarterback and US Marine and I hit it right off.  And he rides a Harley.

Funny as hell, and didn't mind me asking questions and showing me how plumbing works.

They don't sweat pipe joints anymore, they use some kind of hydraulic crimper with Orings. 

[crow]

Have you ever changed the anode rod?  Ever drain it every year ?  A0 Smith used to be top shelf, agreed.  But like so many American businesses,  profits before people rules.  Hence made in China.

[Jess from VA]

Have you ever changed the anode rod?  Ever drain it every year ? 

Never changed an anode rod.  I will drain it once a year from now on.   

The amount of crud that came out of that perfectly new looking water heater cannot be good for longevity. 

[vanagon40]

WOW, eerily familiar. We moved into our house in October 1992. The 50 gallon electric water heater looked like it was far from new. It lasted another 29 years and 4 months (it still heated the water, but the thermostat did not function allowing the water to overheat). During that time, I drained it once when I relocated it. It lasted through four kids from preschool through college.

In February 2021, I installed an AO Smith 50 gallon electric. It does have a 12 year warranty, but not sure what that covers.

[Jess from VA]

Bought my current home in 1990.

I didn't know you could get a 12 year warranty anymore.  Maybe only on electric?

[vanagon40]

EDIT from original post (I had the wrong model no.). The 12 year warranty covers the tank and parts. I paid $517 (plus tax with a $100 discount). Installed it myself. Here is what Google's AI found:

[vanagon40]

And you can get gas water heaters with 12 year warranties:

AO Smith at Lowes

"Provides peace of mind with a 12-year limited tank and parts guarantee and a 3-year limited labor warranty"

[Jess from VA]

Thanks for doing that research Van.

Both my new and former AO Smith gas water heaters came with 6 year warranties.  My longstanding plumbers (about a mile from my house) get them from a supply house, which I assume is cheaper than any Home Depot/Lowes.  I didn't ask, and he didn't offer any longer warranty, for extra money.  I'm assuming the "$517 (plus tax with a $100 discount)" was for the extra warranty, as that would be a heck of a good price for the whole water heater. 

My default setting is to never pay for extra warranty on anything.  And I can't remember ever actually getting any coverage on any warranty on anything (though I may have).  Although since both my two former heaters died at around 7-8 years a 12-year would probably have been a good investment.

I could probably install my own heaters, but with natural gas having the potential to asphyxiate me or blow my house up, and with all the lugging around of new and old to dump (alone), I pay it done for my old back and peace of mind.  And my upstairs bed sits right over the basement water heater.   

[Jersey mike]

Jess, from reading your initial post on your water heater, how clogged it was and how little it’s used, that may be part of the issue. The standing water isn’t getting stirred enough.

If I remember correctly the city water intake is supposed to go down about 3/4 of the way and kinda make a semi circular curve near the bottom to stir up the water in the tank and to keep most sediments from just collecting at the bottom.

I don’t know what your actual water usage is for a single guy but you can’t be anywhere near the minimum water usage for your water company. It may sound like a waster of money but it may be worth it to once a week to just let the hot water run wide open for 3-4 minutes. If you have a tub in the shower with the spout to fill the tub I’d say that would be the best soirce for higher volume and no screens or small openings for water flow and sediments to get trapped. Do it after your shower while the flame is still burning to heat what was used during the shower.

I’ve heard of this issue many times, people with large families and a bigger water usage get more life out of their water heaters than those who run smaller households.

[h13man]

Just replaced my AO Smith after 32 yrs. Where I live we have extreme sulfur content, 8 ft. ground water table and a lot of nasty farm chemicals. The 1st. thing I done when I installed it in 93' was take the anode rod out. Common practice by all the country folk in my area. Anode rod works for chlorinated city water pretty well but not in our water environment. If you have a rotten egg smell, the magnesium rod is more than likely causing it do to chemical reaction. Think "firework" components/smell. We also run 60,000 grain water softener to be able to get good potable water for cooking and bathing etc. I wouldn't live w/o softener regardless the water source.
I went with a Rheem from Menards and the rod is gone from it too and yes I know it voids the warranty but I do all my own home repairs for the most part. Warranty work is at best skeptical with all hoops to pass thru when one does their own work. Meh.

[scooperhsd]

In my younger years (when I could still move an empty water heater tank by myself), I moved and replaced electric water heaters with no issues. Heck, I even put timers on them.

Natural gas -  while I appreciate Natural gas (especially over propane), I leave to the pro's to handle. They soldered the replacement in with copper pipes. I really appreciated the gas water heater when we were without power, but city water was still going (and so was the gas water heater). That shower was REALLY appreciated

[cookiedough]

yah, any new appliance nowadays lucky get 15 years out of them anymore regardless of what it is.  I had one of those 2 brands 40 gallon gas water heater and after 24 years or so it started leaking am sure tank got corroded on bottom.  Was going to get another tanked water heater but splurged got a tankless water heater is ok takes up NO floor space on the backwall in basement but the thing do not like is it takes 3 minutes of running cold water to make it hot some 30 ft away upstairs to take a shower.  The kitchen line right above it takes 20 seconds or so to heat up not bad, but also bad thing cannot take a hot shower and do laundry same time will not keep up with hot water needed.  Am sure it saves on electricity, but at what  cost will see has now worked some 10 years hope to get 10 more years outta it for the price?

I got just last week a new AC unit to replace my tried and true still running 1994 2 ton AC unit.  WOW,  the new ones are so super quiet barely hear it run vs. the old clunky AC unit.  The installer said will not get 32 years out of this unit or any new AC until hope for 20 years and expect 15 years useful life cost 5100 vs in 1994 cost me 1500 bucks for new AC unit.    Can tell you for a fact at over 3x's the cost and probably half the life expectancy of a new AC unit the few bucks saved per month on electricity is not worth it.

All new tanked water heaters was also told ONLY last thru the 10-12 year warranty highly doubt will get over 15 years out of a new tanked water heater made in past 10 years.  The tank is so thin they will leak like my 1993 one did after 15 years not lasting 30 years as the older ones made in 1990s and earlier.  My parents house had and still had when sold house few years ago an old limed up 1970s tanked water heater installed when I was a kid, still running ok, but am sure a family of 4 vs. 1-2 would probably not last much longer...

[vanagon40]

. . .  I'm assuming the "$517 (plus tax with a $100 discount)" was for the extra warranty, as that would be a heck of a good price for the whole water heater.  . . .

Nope, that was the out the door price on the water heater in February, 2021 (from Lowe's). The $100 discount was likely for signing up for their credit card.

[Oss]

hope I am not jinxing myself but try a whole house water filter

not expensive had plumber install with bypass

Very inexpensive filters 5 micron screen out sediment and chlorine that we change every 60-90 days as the flow of water gets a bit slower

Had it for 40 yrs now since we bought the house, was 1st thing I did after closing

It is a good idea to drain the tank every year though for sure

we have a better filter for kitchen for instant hot and cold drinking water

Best of luck Jess

[scooperhsd]

yah, any new appliance nowadays lucky get 15 years out of them anymore regardless of what it is.  I had one of those 2 brands 40 gallon gas water heater and after 24 years or so it started leaking am sure tank got corroded on bottom.  Was going to get another tanked water heater but splurged got a tankless water heater is ok takes up NO floor space on the backwall in basement but the thing do not like is it takes 3 minutes of running cold water to make it hot some 30 ft away upstairs to take a shower.  The kitchen line right above it takes 20 seconds or so to heat up not bad, but also bad thing cannot take a hot shower and do laundry same time will not keep up with hot water needed.  Am sure it saves on electricity, but at what  cost will see has now worked some 10 years hope to get 10 more years outta it for the price?

I got just last week a new AC unit to replace my tried and true still running 1994 2 ton AC unit.  WOW,  the new ones are so super quiet barely hear it run vs. the old clunky AC unit.  The installer said will not get 32 years out of this unit or any new AC until hope for 20 years and expect 15 years useful life cost 5100 vs in 1994 cost me 1500 bucks for new AC unit.    Can tell you for a fact at over 3x's the cost and probably half the life expectancy of a new AC unit the few bucks saved per month on electricity is not worth it.

All new tanked water heaters was also told ONLY last thru the 10-12 year warranty highly doubt will get over 15 years out of a new tanked water heater made in past 10 years.  The tank is so thin they will leak like my 1993 one did after 15 years not lasting 30 years as the older ones made in 1990s and earlier.  My parents house had and still had when sold house few years ago an old limed up 1970s tanked water heater installed when I was a kid, still running ok, but am sure a family of 4 vs. 1-2 would probably not last much longer...

You put in an electric tankless ? I wouldn't. Gas units (both propane and natural gas) can more easily cover 2 or 3 loads at a time - we're talking the 200KBTU units. Also - (and something to keep in mind especially in colder climates (northern US, Canada)) - they work by elevating the water temperature a set amount - so where the ground water is colder - you're not going to get as much hot water at a given output temperature.  IOW - quantity, temp rise - pick one.

There are for sure situations where a tankless is great. There are also situations where they are not so great and a tank type is better.

If you want a "forever" water heater, look for a Marathon - electric tank, but the tank is guaranteed not to rust through (it's something that doesn't rust inside the tank).

[Hook#3287]

My house, just like everyone else in the area with deep drilled water wells, has very high iron.

A water softener is pretty much standard procedure.

My first upright 40-50 gallon heater lasted 7 years. Guts rotted out.

I replaced it with a instant on tankless and that lasted about 25 years till the electronics crapped out.

On my second instant on wall mounted unit.

Takes some time for the hot water to reach the farthest faucet, but once it gets there, never runs out.

As long as you have water , electric and gas , that is.

Now, well pumps?  That's another story.

[Jess from VA]

In my Ankara Turkey USAF tour, we all lived downtown on the economy (the only small on-base dorm was for jr enlisted who they wanted to keep an eye on  ).

The whole city ran on natural gas tankless "flash heaters" that hung on a wall.

Man you had to be careful with that thing.  If you got the sequence of start-up wrong, you could have a small explosion and burn off all the hair on your head.    

"Nice sunburn major.

Those gol dang flash heaters are dangerous I tell you."   

[carolinarider09]

Having lived in homes with "tanked" hot water heaters (both natural gas and electric) I had experience with them just based on the 30 or so years of use.  Yes I had to replace at least one but I forget the cost.

When I decided to build my last house (the home I was to retire to when I retired from my position with V. C. Summer Nuclear) I did a couple of things.  

First, I found "Holmes on Homes".  I think it was on ETV but not sure.  He covered lots of stuff that was (at least so far) good ideas that I used when building the house.  

Second, I took the course at the Midlands Technical College that would (if I put in the required "working" time)allow me to get a "Contractors License".  The instructor was experienced and covered lots of good things.  I learned a lot.

Some of the things I learned on Holmes on Homes were..

Use screws for instead of nails for the floor joist "thing".
Do not run copper piping for water, use Plex tubing.
Have all the water (both hot and cold) travel through a "manifold".  
And use a "Tankless" hot water heater.  

So, I built the house using those specs.  I was really happy with the natural gas fueled tankless hot water heater.  It's a Rinnai.  It does its job.  

The manifold is an excellent idea since now you don't have go under the sink or behind the washing machine to turn off the water to that device.

The Plex ("knock on wood") has worked well.

Oh, we did have "contractors" install the drywall but we painted it.

Also, based on Holmes suggestions I also installed a water filter.  The filter has a bypass valve but it's under the house so, not that easy to get to. But it is there in case the filter container fails.  

I know, this a long post and not totally relevant to Jess's original post.  But, since others has added some additional information I thought I would share my experiences.  

Construction was started in 2008 and I we got the final inspection and approval for occupancy in the spring of 2012.

One final comment.  As part of the process we had to have an "inspection".   The inspector found two issues.  One had to do with the height the stairs leading to the upstairs living area.  The distance between steps was a little off and he required me to redo it.  I should have bulked and fought that but, it was not hard to re-build the stairs.

The other issue had to do with the three windows in the upstairs bedrooms.  Two windows were found to be not large enough to allow fire fighters to enter.  However, each bedroom had one window that was large enough for a fire fighter to enter.  So, I was told the two smaller windows would have be replaced with a window that meet the specs.  I should have fought that "requirement" but did not.  I had the two windows in each bedroom replaced with a single window.  That did change, in my opinion, the strength of the wall but.....  

And yes, you cannot (well you could but....) have the tankless setup so that you can circulate the hot water so, you would not have to wait as long for hot water to arrive.  

The only issue we had with that was the laundry room is the furtherest location from the hot water heater, so the washing machine rarely got real hot water for washing clothes.  So, I installed a cross connect for the sink in the laundry room and connected the washing machine hot water to it.  Now, to get real hot water for the washing machine, you run the laundry room sink hot water for about a minute or so and there you are.

Oh, one more cool thing about the tankless hot ware heater.  You can set your water temperature so you don't have to fiddle with the valves in the shower.  And there are two controllers for the tankless hot water heater.  One in the kitchen and one in the master bathroom.  Just push a button and you're in control.  

Again, I know a long post but my intent was to show the rational and reason that I would never use a tanked hot water heater again.  And to show you that I did have so experience that lead to my selection.  

[scooperhsd]

I have used PEX (loved it - easy for a DIY installation), however I have not (to date) used the manifolds - I used 3/4 inch mainlines and 1/2 inch to fixtures.

I do have some experiance with tankless water heaters, but I used an electric unit in the kitchen (to get hot water faster). It was a pretty high amp (I think 50 AMPs ?) and that only did 1 gallon per minute. It also had a thermostat and as the hot water from the tank finally got to it (something like 1.5 minutes), it would ramp down.

As for the laundry - we had a sink right next to the washer and dryer, I used that to get hot to the washer before starting the wash cycle.

I also put insulation on the hot water lines.

Our water heater in that house was a 40 gallon electric (the alternative would have been propane, which wasn't there when we moved in - all electric house as built).

That house was also on a well. I had a sediment filter before the tank and 2 standard sized filters (to get 8 GPM out) post expansion tank. Public water got to the cul-d-sac before we left, but we stayed on the well (our water was good and plentiful). Some neighbors did change to public, but their wells did not have the same quality output as mine, so I understand why they did. I would have needed to bury 120+ feet of pipe to bring the public to the house.

I might consider changing to a tankless when the current tank needs replacement again, but if it requires electric power, I'll need to get that circuit on the transfer switch as well

[carolinarider09]

I might consider changing to a tankless when the current tank needs replacement again, but if it requires electric power, I'll need to get that circuit on the transfer switch as well

I did not mention the my Rinnai is a "natural gas" fueled water heater. 

Also, not a big deal but just a deal, were we were connected to the "Town's" water supply, the water pressure was well above 80 PSI at the house.  I was use to it being much lower (40 PSI at our last home) so I installed a pressure reducing valve/device/thing on the water feed to the house (yard water supplies not affected).  It reduces the pressure to about 60 PSI which I can live with. 

[scooperhsd]

I might consider changing to a tankless when the current tank needs replacement again, but if it requires electric power, I'll need to get that circuit on the transfer switch as well

I did not mention the my Rinnai is a "natural gas" fueled water heater. 

Also, not a big deal but just a deal, were we were connected to the "Town's" water supply, the water pressure was well above 80 PSI at the house.  I was use to it being much lower (40 PSI at our last home) so I installed a pressure reducing valve/device/thing on the water feed to the house (yard water supplies not affected).  It reduces the pressure to about 60 PSI which I can live with. 

The Rinnai might heat with NG, but it requires 120V AC for the electronics / ignitor / possible internal heater to prevent it from freezing.

There has been a pressure reducing thing on my MIL's KC house since before we got here - the area is KNOWN for high pressure / high limestone content, so yes, I installed a water softener as well.

[carolinarider09]

I might consider changing to a tankless when the current tank needs replacement again, but if it requires electric power, I'll need to get that circuit on the transfer switch as well

I did not mention the my Rinnai is a "natural gas" fueled water heater. 

Also, not a big deal but just a deal, were we were connected to the "Town's" water supply, the water pressure was well above 80 PSI at the house.  I was use to it being much lower (40 PSI at our last home) so I installed a pressure reducing valve/device/thing on the water feed to the house (yard water supplies not affected).  It reduces the pressure to about 60 PSI which I can live with. 

The Rinnai might heat with NG, but it requires 120V AC for the electronics / ignitor / possible internal heater to prevent it from freezing.

There has been a pressure reducing thing on my MIL's KC house since before we got here - the area is KNOWN for high pressure / high limestone content, so yes, I installed a water softener as well.

Yes you are correct the Rinnai uses natural gas for heating the water but requires 120 VAC for its electronics. 

[h13man]

My new propane 40 gal. Rheem doesn't require electricity and doesn't use a pilot light either thus stand alone operation electronic operation. I had a the 120V ran for hook up but wasn't needed.
On a note I use coarse SS debri filter before the bladder and a whole house with 30 micron wound string filter at main shut off before the water softener. Took a small pebble in the bladder that caused a bladder leak thus the SS filter which has caught a couple pebbles since in the past 10 yrs.

[Jess from VA]

Fascinating  
 

What is gas water and why do you need to heat it?

To light gas farts.