Torque spec missing?

[Quince]

I found the torque for timing belt tension roller/idler bolts, for the cover bolts (25Nm and 12Nm) but I couldn't find a recommended torque for the Ignition Pulse Generators bolts. Anybody knows where they spell those out, or should I go by torque by size? They are M6x1 bolts.
Thanks

[-mike-]

Page 1-13 in the shop manual.
Standard torque values by size for all bolts.

Best,
-mike-

[WintrSol]

Also, those bolts get 'liquid sealant', so Loc-Tite. I'd use one of the weaker ones, like green or purple, maybe blue, but not red or you'll never get them off again.

[Quince]

I used 12Nm and feels good. They did have the red loctite when I took them out and I bet it was 25 years old. Didn't feel any flex taking them out, just a clean snap and some resistance all the way out so I used the same loctite. That is the worst place to have a screw flying around. Old belts didn't have the correct tension anymore and maybe that's why I feel engine is running better now, but could be also the new spark plugs. Old spark plugs looked good, so did the tensioner roller springs (I even measure deflection) but since I had new ones, I changed them anyway. Only things left would be to change air filter and find a place to get new tires. Any tire brand/model recommendations anyone?
Thank you

[98valk]

I used 12Nm and feels good. They did have the red loctite when I took them out and I bet it was 25 years old. Didn't feel any flex taking them out, just a clean snap and some resistance all the way out so I used the same loctite. That is the worst place to have a screw flying around. Old belts didn't have the correct tension anymore and maybe that's why I feel engine is running better now, but could be also the new spark plugs. Old spark plugs looked good, so did the tensioner roller springs (I even measure deflection) but since I had new ones, I changed them anyway. Only things left would be to change air filter and find a place to get new tires. Any tire brand/model recommendations anyone?
Thank you

https://powersports.honda.com/pro-honda-oils/service-and-maintenance/hondalock

Hondalock colors are not the same as auto store lock tite colors

the red u see is high temp medium strength same as used on their brake bolts/screws

""Hondalock 1 – Low-strength, blue-colored threadlock for frequently-removed and low-torque fasteners.

Prevents wear and corrosion.

Resists vibration, moisture and most chemicals.

Hondalock 2 – Orange-colored threadlock for medium-torque fasteners.

Hondalock 2HT – Red-colored threadlock for medium-torque fasteners in high-temperature applications.

Hondalock 3 – High-strength, green-colored threadlock for semipermanent and high-torque fasteners.

Hondalock 1
Part Number: 08713-0001

Hondalock 2
Part Number: 08713-0002

Hondalock 2HT
Part Number: 08713-0004

Hondalock 3
Part Number: 08713-0003""

[WintrSol]

I did not know that about the Honda colors. But, if you look at the Loc-Tite package, there should be a bolt diameter recommendation, and red Loc-Tite is for larger than 6mm, as I recall. They certainly won't come loose, though.

[Pluggy]

At a major defense contractor, there was a class on fasteners and threadlockers.  It was developed by a Senior Process Engineer.  Portions of it can apply to motorcycles.

Fastener threads should be cleaned and a only a small amount of threadlocker is needed.  

The color of "Loctite" to use is determined by fastener size.  For motorcycles fasteners, medium-strengh Loctite Blue would be the choice.  In the fine print Honda tells us threadlocker = blue.  Loctite Red is for large fasteners.  Using Red on motorcycles may require heat to remove.  

Loctite Green is a wicking liquid, added to assembled fasteners.  Green is "stronger" than Blue, and not used often.  There is probably no reason for a motorcycle owner to buy this.  

Greases and anti-seize material are only used when specified in the work instructions.  Fasteners need some friction to work and using these slippery materials may cause fasteners to "back out" during vibration.  To seal moisture out of assembled threads, low-strength Loctite Purple is a better choice.

[Hook#3287]

At a major defense contractor, there was a class on fasteners and threadlockers.  It was developed by a Senior Process Engineer.  Portions of it can apply to motorcycles.

Fastener threads should be cleaned and a only a small amount of threadlocker is needed.  

The color of "Loctite" to use is determined by fastener size.  For motorcycles fasteners, medium-strengh Loctite Blue would be the choice.  In the fine print Honda tells us threadlocker = blue.  Loctite Red is for large fasteners.  Using Red on motorcycles may require heat to remove.  

Loctite Green is a wicking liquid, added to assembled fasteners.  Green is "stronger" than Blue, and not used often.  There is probably no reason for a motorcycle owner to buy this.  

Greases and anti-seize material are only used when specified in the work instructions.  Fasteners need some friction to work and using these slippery materials may cause fasteners to "back out" during vibration.  To seal moisture out of assembled threads, low-strength Loctite Purple is a better choice.

Good info, thanks.

Makes me think I may be over using anti-seize.  I don't use it a lot on my bikes, but on my 4 wheeled vehicles, I may have to re-think use.

I use it every time I take the rear wheels off my dually 1 ton, especially the hub & wheel contact and  also on the lug nuts.

But, never experienced any issues.

Old school mech told me years ago to use anti-seize sparingly, very light coating is all you need and usually one coat will last forever.

I may need to follow his advice.   But if you ever had to remove the rear wheels on a dually, sometimes they don't want to come off.  I've used sludge hammers & bottle jacks.

Anti-seize fixed that.

[Pluggy]

Hook, that hub and wheel on a Ford can stick together really well.  The anti-seize compound would help there as it is not a fasten⁶er.  

Think about fasteners..... A nut and bolt with polished friction-free threads would tighten up and then untighten itself.  It takes some friction between the nut and bolt to keep it fastened.  That reduced friction is why the experts say to clean wheel studs and nuts, but don't use greases or compounds.  You can Google it.

If owners feel good about putting that anti-seize on truck wheel hardware, they are free to do so.  I never had a problem by not adding that material.

[Hook#3287]

Hook, that hub and wheel contact area on a Ford is about 3 inches in diameter and those parts can stick together really well.  The anti-seize compound would help there as it is not a fastener.  

Think about fasteners..... A nut and bolt with polished friction-free threads would tighten up and then untighten itself.  It takes some friction between the nut and bolt to keep it fastened.  That reduced friction is why the experts say to clean wheel studs and nuts, but don't use greases or compounds.  You can Google it.

If owners feel good about putting that anti-seize on truck wheel hardware, they are free to do so.  I never had a problem by not adding that material.

Yeah, Pluggy, I get it.

I never used anti-seize on bike parts that require friction, i.e. calipers, rotors, axels bolts & nuts,  etc.  I have used it on parts that hold non essential parts like chrome covers, fenders, etc.

Bought a Tourer that was neglected and had a lot of metal electrolysis and corrosion, I used it in several areas on that bike.

Used it on my truck lug nuts only because I envisioned being on the side of the road trying to get a tire off. 

On my dually, the hub and the wheel areas that contact the hub, and each other, get some each time.

Think I'll get some "Blue" honda or lock-tite and use that, but not on the truck.

[WintrSol]

Anti-seize reduces the amount of torque required to reach the required tension on a bolt or screw, so if you tighten to the rated 'dry' torque, you will over-torque the bolt. This is why Honda specifies which parts to use it on, and the rest stay 'dry'.

Wheel lugs/studs can fail if it is used on the threads, as you may exceed the tensile strength of the steel, so just clean the threads. I use it on wheels in other areas, like where the wheel is supported by a collar or boss, and maybe on the taper that fits into the wheel, but not on the threads.

[h13man]

Over the years green, red or blue usage, I always used a heat source to remove if possible after a inspection if it was used. Blue is easily removed with a good heat gun if needed and could be used with the other two variants but acetylene/propane torch is good stand bye depending on the "project". Often heard folk using Loctite on the exhaust nuts though its been awhile.  
I use a pliable blue Permatex in place of blue Honda. The thicker old brown variety as most have grown up with for decades, I still use it for coolant related gasket surfaces still.

Plus 10% torque using anti seize but on a smooth Valk, use your judgement especially on the fine threads of the caliper mounting bolts.