brake bleeder?

[upjeeper]

I'm thinking about picking up a brake bleeder in the near future. in anticipate doing my bike, truck, other cars, etc (i'm an engineer by day, but like to tinker by night). can you guys/gals please give me some feedback on what you've seen that's worked well?

a local shop has a mityvac on the shelf or i was thinking about going with a motive bleeder. the problem with a motive is you have to have all the different adapters that go over the master cylinder and i think the mityvac ones connect at the bleed nipple

[Joe Hummer]

I have a mityvac and that thing is the BOMB.  the only thing you have to pay attention to is the fluid level in the reservoir. 

The tubing that come with it will fit over the bleeder valve.  Holds tight enough. 

Joe

[BuzzKill]

I bought a little kit from the auto store when I did mine a while back.  Worked minimally.  It was very hard to get all the air out.  Part may be that I drained all the fluid out and probably let alot of air in.  It was some nasty stuff when I bought it.

Anyway I finally got the front done and went to do the rear the next day.  Nothing was helping.  Went to a neighbor and he said only thing he has that might work was a syringe.  It was a medium size one, and the tube fit perfect on it.  That thing worked GREAT!  I would suck out alot of air and fluid, then just squirt it back into the reservoir and repeat.  Alot cheaper and worked pretty well for me at least.  My 2 cents.  Keep the change. 

[Wildman]

I'm an engineer also.

I use a large plastic syringe.
The syringe I have is part of set-up to measure small amounts of oil for gas premix.
It's cheaper and does the job faster than anything else.
Fill the syringe. Hold it outlet up with a short piece of silicone tubing on the end. Expell all air from the syringe and tubing. Silone tubing works well because its flexible and you can see any air bubbles
You force the brake fluid in at the bleader.
This forces the air up into the resevior.
Follow this by one squeese on the brake lever to get any tiny bubels at the bleader out and you are done.
Making air go up is much easier than trying to make bubbels go down through the brake lines.

I've been doing this for years, nothing else comes close for speed, ease and brake function.

[Momz]

I also bought a MiteyVac and I think I would have been better off getting "Speed Bleeders" instead.

[Kamisue]

for the bike it's only speed bleeders for me.  I have a mityvac - never gonna use it again.  It took longer to read the directions on install for the speed  bleeders and install that it did to bleed the front brakes.

[vanagon40]

I'm still not convinced that the 2 person method of loosen, pump, tighten, release, repeat . . . is not the simplest and fastest.  Of course it takes two people.

I installed the speed bleeders on my bike so I could change the fluid myself, but with any of my cars or trucks, I just ask my wife or one of the kids to help for 15 minutes.

I remember the instructions from an old Triumph Spitfire shop manual:  "You will need a friend, a clear hose, and an empty jam jar . . . ."

[hubcapsc]

I use a large plastic syringe.

You force the brake fluid in at the bleader.
This forces the air up into the resevior.

I use speed bleeders, I can do it alone without too much hassle and I think my brakes work good.

But I've always liked the idea of pumping it in at the bleeder... I have a question:

As you're pumping in the new, the reservoir gets full (several times maybe?)... how do you deal with that without
making a mess?

-Mike

[Larry]

I use a large plastic syringe.

You force the brake fluid in at the bleader.
This forces the air up into the resevior.

I use speed bleeders, I can do it alone without too much hassle and I think my brakes work good.

But I've always liked the idea of pumping it in at the bleeder... I have a question:

As you're pumping in the new, the reservoir gets full (several times maybe?)... how do you deal with that without
making a mess?

-Mike

Hi Mike, dug this out my archives:
"Reverse Bleeding Your Brakes
Here is a fast and easy method of removing air from your brake lines.
The following materials are needed:
1. An extra master cylinder cover.
2. One metal threaded vacuum type nipple (available at most Auto parts stores)
3. Clear plastic tubing to fit the above nipple and oil can.
4. A new clean 1 quart or larger pump type oil can.
5. Fresh supply of brake fluid.
6. Bucket or similar catch container for the old fluid.
Drill and thread the spare master cylinder cover. Install the metal vacuum nipple. Make sure it is leak free. Put the clear plastic tube on this nipple long enough to reach your catch container (Away from your paint). Temporarily install the new "modified" master cylinder cover on your bike. This is your overflow or drain.
Take your (clean)1 quart pump type oil can and fill with fresh brake fluid. (Always use fresh fluid. Miss-Stored or older fluid can absorb water.) Put another length of clear plastic tubing on the end of the oil can nozzle and clamp air tight.
Pump until most of the air is out of the tube (This is why it's clear) For us south westerners clear swamp cooler line works great for this. Run the line from your pump or oil can direct to the bleeder fitting. It is critical that there are no air leaks between the pump and bleeder fitting. Pump until no air is visible in the line coming out of the top of the master cylinder. You want the old fluid to drain into the catch container, this will also flush your system of any contaminants at the same time. Dispose of the old fluid responsibly. Honda can't even bleed'em this good! You will be amazed at the responsiveness of your brakes and clutch.
Again, Keep the brake fluid OFF your paint. Brake fluid tends to make great paint remover.
Jim Lantz (AlbqJim) "

[D.Tater]

I'm still not convinced that the 2 person method of loosen, pump, tighten, release, repeat . . . is not the simplest and fastest.  Of course it takes two people.

"You will need a friend, a clear hose, and an empty jam jar . . . ."

Agree: I saved my money for beer. I did the brakes and clutch in no time. I had my 17 year son help me.

A long time ago I took some clear hose, whatever size fits over the nipple, and drilled a hole in the lid of a short plastic bottle,(pedialyte bottle for those who had kids) also drilled a small vent hole (1/8").

Using the standard pump, release, tighten, release sequence it makes for an easy job.

I asked my mechanic buddy about they Mighty Vac and he said he did not like them, he said they normally suck air from around the nipple more than the suck in fluid.

I have used the old standard procedure on all my cars with success.

I did read somewhere that cars with ABS should not be reverse bleed, the possibility of pushing trash into the ABS module, or just reverse flow can cause problems. 

That is why when I change brake pads on my cars, I release the bleeder nipple before I push the pistons in to make room for the new pads. The fluid exits the bleeder rather that going backwards through the ABS module.

[Rocketman]

I asked my mechanic buddy about they Mighty Vac and he said he did not like them, he said they normally suck air from around the nipple more than the suck in fluid.

OK, since we're on the topic:
How DO you stop air from coming around the nipple or around the threads?  That was quite annoying, and made it more difficult than using the standard old method.  If someone has a trick, then I'll use it.  Otherwise, I'm out the money and back to the old way.

[hubcapsc]

But I've always liked the idea of pumping it in at the bleeder... I have a question:

As you're pumping in the new, the reservoir gets full (several times maybe?)... how do you deal with that without
making a mess?

-Mike

1. An extra master cylinder cover.

Drill and thread the spare master cylinder cover. Install the metal vacuum nipple. Make sure it is leak free. Put the clear plastic tube on this nipple long enough to reach your catch container (Away from your paint).

That sounds like it would work... hmm... I have my old pitted master cylinder covers...

-Mike

[Sodbuster]

I asked my mechanic buddy about they Mighty Vac and he said he did not like them, he said they normally suck air from around the nipple more than the suck in fluid.

OK, since we're on the topic:
How DO you stop air from coming around the nipple or around the threads?  That was quite annoying, and made it more difficult than using the standard old method.  If someone has a trick, then I'll use it.  Otherwise, I'm out the money and back to the old way.

I ended up using a small hose clamp to seal it off better ....

[Ricky-D]

While bleeding the brakes using the old "tried and true" method there is no real chance of introducing air back into the caliper since there is no negative pressure introduced into the system.

The easiest way to fill new fluid into the system is to siphon all the old out of the master cylinder reservoir and refill with new. Then proceed to bleed the brakes keeping the reservoir full so as to not let yourself pump air into the purged system.

Those speed bleeders work fine, but only if there is no air in the system to begin with. With air present the speed bleeders are useless.

A vacuum pump on the bleeder is a workable way to replace the fluid but you have to watch very carefully avoiding introducing air into the system. In any case you need to put new fluid in the reservoir as the first operation.

I thing the worse choice is to reverse bleed the system since the most amount of crud and contaminant will be residing in the caliper and it would be foolish to bring it back up into the master cylinder and lines.

***

[vanagon40]

Those speed bleeders work fine, but only if there is no air in the system to begin with. With air present the speed bleeders are useless.

Why would that be?  My understanding is that the speed bleeder simply incorporates a check valve into the bleeder, eliminating the need to manually close the bleeder during the release stoke of the brake pedal (or lever).

[Ricky-D]

Those speed bleeders work fine, but only if there is no air in the system to begin with. With air present the speed bleeders are useless.

Why would that be?  My understanding is that the speed bleeder simply incorporates a check valve into the bleeder, eliminating the need to manually close the bleeder during the release stoke of the brake pedal (or lever).

It's difficult to over ride the spring pressure in the speed bleeder when air is present in the system.

The air compresses with not enough pressure to bypass the bleeder system. 

If you need the exact figures I am sure there will be some to come to dispute what I say and offer a more complete analysis.

***

[Rocketman]

OK, since we're on the topic:
How DO you stop air from coming around the nipple or around the threads?  That was quite annoying, and made it more difficult than using the standard old method.  If someone has a trick, then I'll use it.  Otherwise, I'm out the money and back to the old way.

I ended up using a small hose clamp to seal it off better ....

That's a good start, but I tried sealing it better, and got the impression that I was pulling air from around the threads.  Maybe I just wasn't getting as good of a seal as I thought I was.

Mark

[MP]

Speed bleeders do not work with air.  As stated above, do not open right.  Work great for bleeding though.

MP

[vanagon40]

It's difficult to over ride the spring pressure in the speed bleeder when air is present in the system.

The air compresses with not enough pressure to bypass the bleeder system. 

If you need the exact figures I am sure there will be some to come to dispute what I say and offer a more complete analysis.

***

Okay, that makes sense.  I have no experience with the speed bleeders with air in the system.  I do not need exact figures.

[hubcapsc]

It's difficult to over ride the spring pressure in the speed bleeder when air is present in the system.

The air compresses with not enough pressure to bypass the bleeder system. 

If you need the exact figures I am sure there will be some to come to dispute what I say and offer a more complete analysis.

***

Okay, that makes sense.  I have no experience with the speed bleeders with air in the system.  I do not need exact figures.

I have a syringe that I use, in conjunction with speed bleeders... If you start with nothing, as in when you've taken the calipers off,
and fill up the master cylinder and start pumping the lever, nothing happens, at least not quick enough that I ever noticed anything happening.

This is where the syringe comes in - I replace the speed bleeder with the tip of the syringe and pump a couple of times until something
shows up... put back in the speed bleeder, and start bleeding...

-Mike