Petition against Nobamacare bill (FWIW)

[Ratdog]

Found this link in my inbox a little while ago.  Allows you to read "about"... and, if you choose to... electronically sign the petition.  I took the liberty of adding "nospam" into the middle of my email address to cramp the style of any "auto add harvesting" nonsense.  

http://www.novemberiscoming.com/

[fstsix]

Thanks Ratdog, i will shoot it out via Email. my inbox is stuffed with anti Slavery petitions been passing them along. signed and sent 

[Jeff K]

I'm in

[Six Guns]

Done.   

[Ratdog]

 

 Now, let me get this straight... We're trying to pass a health care plan: written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who also hasn't read it (and who smokes), with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, with all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and the whole thing to be financed by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong????   

      

And... we're supposed to trust them, afterall, they have OUR best interests in the forefront of their collective minds while they half-assed fulfill their part-time job on our behalf while raping the General fund to pad their own lives.  C'mon people... surely we're not that stupid !!!  (to allow this bovine defication to continue)

[fstsix]

And Think? over 90% of his cabinet has never had a REAL JOB!!! but he will tell us how to get busy  how about the 15000 IRS jobs being created, that should put no fear in the American public, considering that the head of the IRS has to have a professional do his TAXES. and you need a Lawyer to understand the tax code, Not to mention the 16 amendment was never Radified by all the states, Hey sounds like the health care passage hummm? 2700 pages  Jimi Hendix says it all!!! http://www.ihatethemedia.com/obama-cabinet-has-less-real-world-experience-than-any-administration-in-history

[therapist]

Hmmm...guess I'm on the wrong side of this issue.  As someone who deals with the current health care cluster----, as a consumer and as a provider, it really does need an overhaul.  Then add that I am retiring this June and am not happy about how much of my money will be used up by ridiculously high co-pays and such, I feel any change is going to be better than what we have.  My wife will be retiring next year and we will have a 2/3 year gap before we both get Medicare.  That means one of our pension checks each month will be used just to keep the insurance we have.

Just to give you a real life example of how crazy things are currently, I can give someone a diagnosis and the managed care gatekeepers will call and challenge my diagnosis and recommendations for treatment.  These are folks 1000 miles away who have never met the client, have lesser credentials and probably have never done actual therapy.  It's nuts!

[solo1]

Ron.  I believe that all on this board want change in health care, just not this @#$%^& governemt take over change.  Good ideas came out but they were ignored.

As far as insurance companies second guessing the provider, the government is going to improve on that?  Bovine excrement as Ratdog says.

The present Congress and Administration is trying to head the US toward socialism and away from our Constitution of the United States. I won't say any more.

They will not listen as their minds (benefit of a doubt) are made up.

wayne

[R J]

10-04 what solo1 aka Wayne says.

[therapist]

From an article today on Yahoo, "Is Socialized Medicine Bad for Your Wealth"-

http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/109122/is-socialized-medicine-bad-for-your-wealth;_ylt=ApnBZHCSkMbHNrC9iXPt7DhO7sMF;_ylu=X3oDMTE5dTUxdHExBHBvcwMyBHNlYwN3ZWVrZW5kRWRpdGlvbgRzbGsDdW5jbGVzYW1zbWVk?.html?mod=family-love_money

"Yes, maybe the critics are right, and the current bill doesn't do anywhere near enough to rein in exploding health-care costs. But, of course, neither did the status quo. It's hard to argue that the bill will make a good situation bad, or even a bad situation worse. Maybe it will do nothing to fix a disastrous situation. But sooner or later that's going to have to be fixed anyway. Make of it what you will, but advanced countries with more direct government control over health-care costs have clearly done a much better job of controlling those costs."

[Red Diamond]

 

 Now, let me get this straight... We're trying to pass a health care plan: written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts
And... we're supposed to trust them, afterall, they have OUR best interests in the forefront of their collective minds while they half-assed fulfill their part-time job on our behalf while raping the General fund to pad their own lives.  C'mon people... surely we're not that stupid !!!   (to allow this bovine defication to continue)
[/quote]

Apparently, all these people complaining about Obamacare are doing quite well financially. Never pay for insurance coverage (its free to them), never have to ante up co-pays that you can't afford on retirement pay, never retired from a company that declared bankruptcy and cancelled your medical care plan, been laid off, or had to look for a job for a year or two as some are doing now. I guess in general all's well on the horizon for them. Oh, and I guess people really are that stupid, George Jr. was elected a total of what? 2 times. Com'on Man.

[John Schmidt]

Re. 99 Red Diamond's post...been there, done that some years ago. Now retired and have a decent healthcare program along with Medicare....which isn't free by the way. It costs over $100/mo for each of us...me and my wife, along with the monthly premium. Do we need a change??? That's a rather stupid question when you think about it. When I retired and went on Medicare, my insurance co. portion of the bills went down by over 80%, but my premium went up. When asked to qualify that, I recieved no answer. For me, the big thing is the gov't. control being more invasive in our personal lives, and this bill only increases it. If you think otherwise, then listen up.

Know the TRUTH about the Government Health Care Bill H.R.3200 - Key Points	powered by Aeva

[JimL]

The present Congress and Administration is trying to head the US toward socialism and away from our Constitution of the United States. I won't say any more.

They will not listen as their minds (benefit of a doubt) are made up.

wayne

Very well said Wayne.

Therapist we all agree with you that the health care system needs reform, I have committed many hours to thinking about the points you just brought up.  We both agree that under the status quo, it will be impossible to maintain adequate health care during our retirement years unless one is independently wealthy.  Costs simply have to come down.

Where we possibly may disagree is how to accomplish this.  It is absolutely impossible to do it without some government intervention...however that intervention has to be very limited.  I think we have well established examples on how similar problems have been solved in the past.

Humble Observation #1:

Over 100 years ago a similar problem existed when the free market failed to protect the public from big business.  These companies were Standard Oil and Carnegie Steel.  Government intervention was necessary, but this intervention was limited to the Sherman Antitrust law which we all studied in elementary school.  The government did not establish a de facto takeover of the oil and steel industry to solve the problem, it wasn't appropriate neither was it necessary.

This same pattern can be used to solve much of the problem we have today.  Despite what many are saying, tort reform will go a long way to containing costs.  In know this first hand from talking to surgeons in my family and other acquaintances....it is ridiculous the number of unnecessary procedures that are currently performed in order to protect oneself in the event of a frivolous lawsuit that could end their career.  Regardless of how unpopular this statement is, there is one political party that receives a significant portion of their political contributions from trial lawyers that benefit from the lack of tort reform....and this party has historically (and will continue to) resist tort reform.

Tort reform coupled with reducing the monopolies insurance companies have by allowing competition across state lines is an excellent start.  Once these steps have been accomplished, only then will be be able to truly know what assistance is needed to help others who don't have coverage.

Humble Observation #2:

Regardless of how many people have health coverage in this country, there is one thing that won't change....the number of people paying the bill.  If the government awards 30 million people free health care, someone will be paying for it.  There are 4 possibilities...

(1) It will either be added to the tab of the folks currently paying for it
(2) We will fund it with debt from the Chinese government and hand the IOU to our children
(3) Taxes will go up for everyone except the 50% that currently pay nothing
(4) All of the above

I have noticed something during my observation of this debate...and it breaks out a lot like this:

If you are going to be receiving health care benefits at the expense of others...it is a good proposition.  If you are the one that is going to be taxed even more to pay for this entitlement....it is not a good proposition.

I am clearly in favor of trying "Humble Opinion #1" before the government sticks its greedy, incompetent and corrupt hand further into my pocket.

[Ratdog]

Apparently, all these people complaining about Obamacare are doing quite well financially. Never pay for insurance coverage (its free to them), never have to ante up co-pays that you can't afford on retirement pay, never retired from a company that declared bankruptcy and cancelled your medical care plan, been laid off, or had to look for a job for a year or two as some are doing now. I guess in general all's well on the horizon for them. Oh, and I guess people really are that stupid, George Jr. was elected a total of what? 2 times. Com'on Man.

Sorry, your assumption couldn't be further from the truth for me.  I was laid off Dec. 31st.  As a result, have no health insurance. I've been laid off a number of times in my life and have had to live off of what I'd saved up while trying to start again.  I could go on, but, it's not going to happen. 

Back when Pres. Reagan did his across the board cuts, I was one of the ones who got laid off as a result.  Inspite of that, I agreed 100% with the need for our Federal Govt. to hack off a big chunk of itself.  I still believe that to be the first big step in puting our country back on the mend.

Do we need a change/reform of a few systems?  Absolutely !!!  Let's start with taking ALL of the pork being set aside by the politicians (to be spent on ONLY politicians) and put it back into the General fund, make these PART TIME employees of the people (US) to feed from the same "systems" we do... stop this bovine defication business of allowing THEM to GIVE THEMSELVES full retirement after less than a decade's worth of PART TIME WORK.  We need to hold THEM accountable for the lack of productivity.  These parasites view our tax dollars as an opportunity to "empire build" and seek to bind us into servitude to THEM.  Before we can see ANY "change"... this bastardized attitude of theirs needs a SEVERE adjustment and a reality check slapped across their faces.  When they fully understand what the problems are (because THEY are not exempted from their own "choices")... you can bet we (The People) will begin to see these PART TIME employees (of ours) become effectual and productive. 

[therapist]

Do we need a change/reform of a few systems?  Absolutely !!!  Let's start with taking ALL of the pork being set aside by the politicians (to be spent on ONLY politicians) and put it back into the General fund, make these PART TIME employees of the people (US) to feed from the same "systems" we do... stop this bovine defication business of allowing THEM to GIVE THEMSELVES full retirement after less than a decade's worth of PART TIME WORK.  We need to hold THEM accountable for the lack of productivity.  These parasites view our tax dollars as an opportunity to "empire build" and seek to bind us into servitude to THEM.  Before we can see ANY "change"... this bastardized attitude of theirs needs a SEVERE adjustment and a reality check slapped across their faces.  When they fully understand what the problems are (because THEY are not exempted from their own "choices")... you can bet we (The People) will begin to see these PART TIME employees (of ours) become effectual and productive. 

Now, that I totally agree with...if this country was a company it would be ridiculously management/administrative heavy.  Yes, they are so cut off from real world problems the rest of us face, it is impossible for them to have true understanding/empathy.


 

[Doc Moose]

Cost containment - Gawd what a can of worms!

All I can say is that it is a multifaceted problem to which there is no one solution that is going to do the job.  And cost containment has been attempted time and time before by the Feds - the pigs are guarding the feed!  And the "guy hiding behind the tree" that they are trying to tax doesn't exist!
("We won't tax you, we won't tax me, we'll tax the guy hiding behind the tree!")

Seen this too many times before, so I'm copping out of giving a solution.

Until there is a reasonable group of individuals in Congress attempting realistic change for the betterment of the whole, you have no chance of getting a realistic reform.  The guy behind the tree is very elusive.

I agree wholeheartedly with therapists last post.

[solo1]

I also agree with Ron's post!

We need changes like that. However, who would make the changes?  Congress would.  Now why would they want to spoil a good thing (for them).  The Constitution envisoned a turnover of good citizens in the Federal government, elected to bring new ideas and keep our Republic viable, not the present lifetime careers that we have voted then into.

What makes it worse, is that seniority of members entitle them to powerful committees, and therefore, we, again the voters, like our elected officials to have power to do the things that we want. perpetuating the lifetime terms with all the rank and privileges. 

Now we have a situation whereby the Democratic Congress and the President are going to pass by hook or crook legislation that will affect us forever as a nation. !/6 of our economy with NO, I repeat, NO input from the Minority party and certainly no respect for the majority of our citizens.

When we talk about draining the swamp when we are up to our arses in alligators and no means to drain the swamp, what's left?

I am afraid to say what James Madison allayed to in his 46th Federalist Paper.

I am afraid for America 

Wayne

[fstsix]

Health care reform? America has the best health care in the world. My son has VA military ins, i could tell you some stories on that GOV health care program, My wife is disabled and on Medicare and still waiting for here plan B for coverage, both of these are Government run programs and are just a sample of what is to come!! GOD help us. NOW how about the REAL problem INSURANCE reform!!! Out of state competition, it will never HAPPEN!! ALL of these Parasites in congress have been paid in full from them always have. Now we will just have one more PUBLIC UTILITY like our Electric or Gas bill now it will just be (Health tax utility) isn't it nice to only have 1 electric co to buy from no competition!!! looks like the INURANCE CO's have won again, lets not blame the Health care and Professionals for what the lawyers have done to this system, Oh yeah MR O is a lawyer imagine that!! all i can say is 11-10. sorry guys just cant help but think what is really in that bill that will be shoveled on top of us and our children. This is WAY more than a Health care bill? don't kid yourselves. all the views i agree with here watch for Amnesty next, and Now Acorn has just started getting funds again.