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Author Topic: Adjusting forksprings  (Read 2358 times)
Heinno
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Posts: 171



« on: April 09, 2010, 12:08:00 AM »

Hi All

I find the forksprings on my bike (98) to be really firm. Is there a way to adjust them so they have a little more "give" without installing other ones or progressives?

I like a cushy ride - LOL!

Let me know - thanks!
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Dennis Klinefelt
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Posts: 28


« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 03:04:42 AM »

The forks are not adjustable...other than changing springs...i know that Progressive springs are stiffer than stock...have you always had the bike.??..I think adding to much fork oil would would stiffen thigs up as well.....hope this helps...
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DFragn
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 04:02:47 AM »

Actually there are 2 internal methods that can provide a modicum of adjustment.

1.) Fork fluid - effects air quantity in the tubes. Air compresses, fluid does not.

2.) Dampener rod nuts - Under the fork caps.

a.) Are you the original owner? If not, it could be hard to know if anything previously has been done. Removing 1 to 2 ounces of fluid equally from each tube with soften them up. OEM fork levels are 5.3 (R) & 5.6(L) ounces. This measurement from the top is done with the forks Fully Compressed and all internal components removed except for the compression dampener in the right leg. You need a special tool to remove the rebound dampener in the left leg.

b.) The lock nut under the fork caps. OEM position is all the way down to the bottom of the threads [softest position]. Raising the nut to about 13 threads from the top will stiffen the suspension [by additional compression]. I wouldn't advise raising the nut any more then 13 threads from the top though. The dampener rods need to remain secure in the fork caps. Total thread count is about 25 or 30.

Note: Fluid adjustments and/or dampener rod nut adjustments must be matched side to side or your likely to create handling issues with the front end pulling to either side and causing the bikes ride position to come out of plumb and create unnatural front tire wear.

Get the service manual !!!
Member Dag from Norway offers a free copy in .pdf format on his site. It can be found by searching the tech archives.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 04:21:05 AM by DFragn » Logged
sandy
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Posts: 5383


Mesa, AZ.


« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 10:12:26 AM »

Another way to adjust cushiness would be to lighten up the fork oil. You could mix 5W with 10W fork oil. Or use 5W by itself. 10W is what Honda calls for. I use 15W with Progressive springs.
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Heinno
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Posts: 171



« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 10:29:51 AM »

Actually there are 2 internal methods that can provide a modicum of adjustment....

Great information, thanks!! - Heinno
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Ricky-D
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Posts: 5031


South Carolina midlands


« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 11:43:46 AM »

Quote
Note: Fluid adjustments and/or dampener rod nut adjustments must be matched side to side or your likely to create handling issues with the front end pulling to either side and causing the bikes ride position to come out of plumb and create unnatural front tire wear.

That is not a correct statement!

***
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
Gryphon Rider
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Posts: 5227


2000 Tourer

Calgary, Alberta


« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 12:17:57 PM »

Quote
Note: Fluid adjustments and/or dampener rod nut adjustments must be matched side to side or your likely to create handling issues with the front end pulling to either side and causing the bikes ride position to come out of plumb and create unnatural front tire wear.

That is not a correct statement!

***

Yeah, I don't buy it either.  With compression damping in one fork and rebound damping in the other, our motorcycles would be all over the road if that were true.
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Larry
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Posts: 263


Northeastern BC, Canada


« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 12:59:33 PM »

Easiest is to just take a bit of fluid out of each. I changed over to progressives a couple years ago and added a wee bit via a large syringe I got at a vet supply/tack shop place to firm up my ride a bit. You could start by removing 2 or 3 cc's worth from each side and try that. If you need more cushion take out a few more, just don't take out too much. I would think there is a point where it starts to work against you.  Wink  See the service manual for procedure if your unsure of what your doing. Don't worry about replacing the cap o ring, it should be fine.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 01:03:25 PM by Larry » Logged

To Ride or Not To Ride? RIDE of course!!!
DFragn
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 01:16:33 PM »

Quote
Note: Fluid adjustments and/or dampener rod nut adjustments must be matched side to side or your likely to create handling issues with the front end pulling to either side and causing the bikes ride position to come out of plumb and create unnatural front tire wear.

That is not a correct statement!

***

Yeah, I don't buy it either.  With compression damping in one fork and rebound damping in the other, our motorcycles would be all over the road if that were true.

What's not understood?

Fluid levels are as I stated above. If you make an adjustment [generally subtract fluid) to those levels it seems inherently reasonable that any increase or reduction of fluid should be equal side-to-side. THAT leaves the OEM level at the OEM fluid level variance between the two legs intact.

Pull your service manual out. Inclusive to the fluid levels are the dampener rod lock-nut positions. OEM both nuts are bottomed out. Again, if you make an adjustment to these they should be by the same increment leg-to-leg.
The OEM fluid level varience is slightly more then .25". Sooo, maintain that OEM variance when "adjusting" [+ -] the ride via fluid reduction or dampener rod nut changes.

And, what's with "That's an incorrect statement" above from Ricky-D. If it is incorrect, why bother to post without offering what you believe to be a true statement?

BTW I ain't sellin' it. It's free.

Also, if my rememberer is working well enough. 1 oz. of fork fluid equates to approx. .75" in a fork leg. This is relative to the tube taper and whether or not all components remain. If done by the manual that's with the right leg compression dampener installed and the left one void of all components and both tubes fully compressed.

If you guy's can offer something more then a baseless opinion. I'm all ears. If I'm wrong, back your claim up and I'll admit I made a mistake.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 01:54:50 PM by DFragn » Logged
Gryphon Rider
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Posts: 5227


2000 Tourer

Calgary, Alberta


« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2010, 02:57:54 PM »

If you guy's can offer something more then a baseless opinion. I'm all ears. If I'm wrong, back your claim up and I'll admit I made a mistake.

It's the "front end pulling to either side and causing the bikes ride position to come out of plumb and create unnatural front tire wear" part of it I disagree with.  The left and right lower fork tubes work as a unit with the axle.  I think was wrong earlier in saying that rebound and compression damping are in different sides of the fork, but rather, it seems that rebound and compression damping are in the right side.  That being said, having the damping only on one side means that when you hit a bump or jam on your brakes, the right fork tube will offer more resistance than the left fork tube, and if the left inner fork / axle / right inner fork assembly was not as structurally solid as it is, the front wheel would be constantly flexing off of vertical.  This is not the case.
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98valk
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Posts: 13460


South Jersey


« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2010, 06:12:04 PM »

Hi All

I find the forksprings on my bike (98) to be really firm. Is there a way to adjust them so they have a little more "give" without installing other ones or progressives?

I like a cushy ride - LOL!

Let me know - thanks!


good site to peruse
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

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DFragn
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2010, 06:24:30 PM »

If you guy's can offer something more then a baseless opinion. I'm all ears. If I'm wrong, back your claim up and I'll admit I made a mistake.


It's the "front end pulling to either side and causing the bikes ride position to come out of plumb and create unnatural front tire wear" part of it I disagree with.  The left and right lower fork tubes work as a unit with the axle.  I think was wrong earlier in saying that rebound and compression damping are in different sides of the fork, but rather, it seems that rebound and compression damping are in the right side.  That being said, having the damping only on one side means that when you hit a bump or jam on your brakes, the right fork tube will offer more resistance than the left fork tube, and if the left inner fork / axle / right inner fork assembly was not as structurally solid as it is, the front wheel would be constantly flexing off of vertical.  This is not the case.


Thank you for being more specific as to which part of my statement you disagreed with.

I disagree with you.
The right side dampener meters fluid transition on compression and rebound. Give the right dampener rod a pull and a push, you'll see. The left tube works in unison by utilizing the rebound rod assembly [spring] that also dampens. Honda's got this system working in unison with about  a .25 oz. fluid variant! Or Showa did. The only other things that can alter this system is a.) a variance with lock-nut heights between both dampener rods to fork caps. b.) a variance in the variable fluid quantities. c.) an improperly aligned front axle effecting the left lower leg. Or way too little fluid or too much.

Now, if the fluid variance % is slightly off,  i.e. a quarter ounce, I doubt any of us would notice. How many of us have had slight seal leaks? Not hard to loose 1/2 ounce in one leg. My point was; if you alter the systems response via fluid/air ratios you need to keep them identical in removing or adding to existing OEM levels and that's with regard to no fluid loss due to leaking seals. That suggests if you take 1.5 oz. from the left take the same from the right. Same with the dampener lock-nut heights, match the changes. That's a justified recommendation.

I can vouch to handling issues caused by removing 4 ounces from the right and 2 from the left. I did it by mistake. See my thread: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,14595.0.html . Under normal riding the weaker/spongier right fork pulled the bike to the left so I was forced to counter-steer to the right to pull it back left to run straight. Thus handling issues and abnormal tire wear. Was I all over the road with a 2 oz. discrepancy? Only if I took my hands off the grips. Was it difficult to ride - No! Annoying yes. And that's with a heavy variance of 2 oz's.

Your right though, under braking load or bumps it wanted to go right because I'm not computerized and fast enough to predict what bump is going to take me right. No one I ride with saw it, but I could feel it as I corrected. It wasn't death defying...Yes, while braking it wanted to go right. The only observations made by my fellow riders was that I was always cantered to the left.

My recommendation stands in my mind - duplicate fluid level changes equally based on Honda's L&R quantities and keep any dampener rod nut adjustments equal also.  Or you will experience handling and abnormal tire wear. I can't be any clearer.

Dampener rod adjustments are internal in our Valks. If you want to make adjustments. Sport bike's and others are external. No difference really other then access and no indicator indexes.

You could experiment on your ride and you'll understand what I mean.
I've already experimented [unintentionally] on mine.l I've been there, 6 ways to Sunday...




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