Judge Declares National Day Of Prayer Unconstitutional

[Robert]

No Comment

[X Ring]

A Link or more info would be nice.

Marty

[98valk]

A Link or more info would be nice.

Marty

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=141325

[Gryphon]

Unless prayer was mandatory and a specific religious affiliation was specified, I personally do not see how it would be considered unconstitutional.  The separation of Church and State was designed to eliminate the government from mandating participation in a designated sect.  (Read up on the history of the Anglican Church and King Henry VIII. )

Without mandatory participation, I don't see the violation.   

[fstsix]

The Problem with America is AMERICANS, in Mr Presidents Eyes!!!! 

[rainman]

Hey I am not going to say but one thing.  This country was found on and raised on the believe of God, faith, and prayer.  And everyone is trying to figure out what is going on.  This very statement  shows that this Great County has and is turning their backs on how this county was founded no matter what your religious believes are.

[Bobbo]

Hey I am not going to say but one thing.  This country was found on and raised on the believe of God, faith, and prayer.  And everyone is trying to figure out what is going on.  This very statement  shows that this Great County has and is turning their backs on how this county was founded no matter what your religious believes are.

Sorry, but I disagree.  This country was founded on the principal of freedom to follow the religion of your choice, along with freedom from government prosecution of speech.  The country hasn’t turned its back on these principals.  The only reason you may feel this way is due to increased difficulty to create laws that favor one belief system over another.  Our government was never intended to govern religious beliefs.  Remember, if you allow laws to be passed to help certain beliefs, you open the door to restrict other beliefs.  We should never go down this path.

[Chrisj CMA]

Athiests can cry all day long that the mention of God, prayer, faith, church, religion offends them........America needs to respectfully allow their opinion to be voiced, but then march on with saving this nation.  America was put together by men of Faith in Jehova God, with much prayer.  One of two things is going to happen.  Either we get back to being a Nation that respectfully can say we honor God.  That we be a nation of prayer, forgiveness, service, self sacrifice like we started to be.  Or we will continue on this Godless road of me first, there is no God, nothing matters besides what I can get for free until there is no more United States of America.........it will happen

[Chrisj CMA]

Hey I am not going to say but one thing.  This country was found on and raised on the believe of God, faith, and prayer.  And everyone is trying to figure out what is going on.  This very statement  shows that this Great County has and is turning their backs on how this county was founded no matter what your religious believes are.

Sorry, but I disagree.  This country was founded on the principal of freedom to follow the religion of your choice, along with freedom from government prosecution of speech.  The country hasn’t turned its back on these principals.  The only reason you may feel this way is due to increased difficulty to create laws that favor one belief system over another.  Our government was never intended to govern religious beliefs.  Remember, if you allow laws to be passed to help certain beliefs, you open the door to restrict other beliefs.  We should never go down this path.

The mistake in this judgement is the idea that the  National Day of prayer favors one belief over another.   As far as I know the government is not telling you what to pray, how to pray or in what faith to pray.  Just that that day will be recognized as a day of prayer.  The only problem is Athiests are offended.  the other 364 days are not days of prayer so they get the long stick here

[SANDMAN5]

  Our government was never intended to govern religious beliefs.  Remember, if you allow laws to be passed to help certain beliefs, you open the door to restrict other beliefs.  We should never go down this path.

But, ain't that exactly what they're doing?

[John Schmidt]

The only problem is Athiests are offended.  The other 364 days are not days of prayer so they get the long stick here
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Last I heard, the athiests also have their day of disdain. Believe it's April 1. So, if they don't want to observe a Day of Prayer, fine....just go to work and shut up about it. We have Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Just my view, don't really give a rip if anyone agrees or disagrees. Speaking for myself(and many others I would guess)....life's roads have not all been paved, and some of those "roads" I never could have successfully traveled on my own power.

[Bobbo]

Hey I am not going to say but one thing.  This country was found on and raised on the believe of God, faith, and prayer.  And everyone is trying to figure out what is going on.  This very statement  shows that this Great County has and is turning their backs on how this county was founded no matter what your religious believes are.

Sorry, but I disagree.  This country was founded on the principal of freedom to follow the religion of your choice, along with freedom from government prosecution of speech.  The country hasn’t turned its back on these principals.  The only reason you may feel this way is due to increased difficulty to create laws that favor one belief system over another.  Our government was never intended to govern religious beliefs.  Remember, if you allow laws to be passed to help certain beliefs, you open the door to restrict other beliefs.  We should never go down this path.

The mistake in this judgement is the idea that the  National Day of prayer favors one belief over another.   As far as I know the government is not telling you what to pray, how to pray or in what faith to pray.  Just that that day will be recognized as a day of prayer.  The only problem is Athiests are offended.  the other 364 days are not days of prayer so they get the long stick here

The problem isn’t a simplistic one such as someone being offended, but a more complex one of silly “feel good” laws that add to the burgeoning law books already.   I don’t understand why anyone would push for more laws and special days when it has no net effect on anything.

[fstsix]

One Nation Under God.....Or One Nation Under (Man)..... Hummmmm....i think i trust God...

[Bobbo]

Unless prayer was mandatory and a specific religious affiliation was specified, I personally do not see how it would be considered unconstitutional.  The separation of Church and State was designed to eliminate the government from mandating participation in a designated sect.  (Read up on the history of the Anglican Church and King Henry VIII. )

Without mandatory participation, I don't see the violation.   

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”…

The beginning of the First Amendment is simple, direct and very broad, as are most of the Bill of Rights amendments.   Prayer is specific to religion, and creating a law that caters to prayer meets the broad definition in the above clause.  Similarly, the Second Amendment is broadly written to allow people to own and bear firearms.  Do you support the narrow definition that people can only own or bear firearms if part of a militia?

[12voltclothing]

Makes you wonder how long God is going to keep blessing our country.

We're doing everything possible as a nation to rid him from our life

[Bobbo]

Makes you wonder how long God is going to keep blessing our country.

We're doing everything possible as a nation to rid him from our life

Is that another slogan from the Westboro Baptist Church?

[Chrisj CMA]

Makes you wonder how long God is going to keep blessing our country.

We're doing everything possible as a nation to rid him from our life

Is that another slogan from the Westboro Baptist Church?

The westboro baptist church is a discrace.....its really not a church but one whacked out family.  If you want to take the actions of one family and say that national policy should be set around such behavior, then you are either being a jackass or just plain niave.  Its an insult to all Christians to puff your chest out and try to compare the statement above about being concerned that our Country is walking away from God (which MANY Christians of MANY Religions feel) to an ungodly whacko family that runs a looser of a church...Shame on you!

[Bobbo]

Makes you wonder how long God is going to keep blessing our country.

We're doing everything possible as a nation to rid him from our life

Is that another slogan from the Westboro Baptist Church?

The westboro baptist church is a discrace.....its really not a church but one whacked out family.  If you want to take the actions of one family and say that national policy should be set around such behavior, then you are either being a jackass or just plain niave.  Its an insult to all Christians to puff your chest out and try to compare the statement above about being concerned that our Country is walking away from God (which MANY Christians of MANY Religions feel) to an ungodly whacko family that runs a looser of a church...Shame on you!

I find it interesting that you believe you can distinguish a real church from a fake one…  That’s exactly the problem with people who think their personal beliefs are best for the whole country.  I would no more want to base laws on the WBC, as I would any religion.
How exactly does God bless a country, which is really just a collection of laws and land boundaries?  Does a country have a spirit that can ascend to Heaven to be judged?  Does God bestow gifts to some countries based on manmade laws, and bring wrath upon others?  These principals are exactly what the WBC is about.

[12voltclothing]

Never heard of the Westboro church. It's my thoughts I posted

Makes you wonder how long God is going to keep blessing our country.

We're doing everything possible as a nation to rid him from our life

Is that another slogan from the Westboro Baptist Church?

[fstsix]

Freedom is a Gift from God.... not Man......are you serious Bobbo= TROLL 

[John Schmidt]

These principals are exactly what the WBC is about.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Foolish statement, and hardly applicable. Re. God blesssing a country or its people, delve into 2 Chronicles a little....just for starters. As for my "religion" being considered best for all, no...just for me. Others are most welcome to believe...or disbelieve, as they wish.

As for the WBC, by their own admission they have found a "cash cow" and are playing it to the hilt. And, doing so under the auspices of the church which they feel garners them some credence, which would be laughable were it not so degrading to the denomination and disturbing to those in attendance at the funerals they suppose to disrupt.

[SANDMAN5]

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”…

So then they can't make a law that says we CAN'T have a National Day of Prayer, right?

[stormrider]

Hey I am not going to say but one thing.  This country was found on and raised on the believe of God, faith, and prayer.  And everyone is trying to figure out what is going on.  This very statement  shows that this Great County has and is turning their backs on how this county was founded no matter what your religious believes are.

Sorry, but I disagree.  This country was founded on the principal of freedom to follow the religion of your choice, along with freedom from government prosecution of speech.  The country hasn’t turned its back on these principals.  The only reason you may feel this way is due to increased difficulty to create laws that favor one belief system over another.  Our government was never intended to govern religious beliefs.  Remember, if you allow laws to be passed to help certain beliefs, you open the door to restrict other beliefs.  We should never go down this path.

The mistake in this judgement is the idea that the  National Day of prayer favors one belief over another.   As far as I know the government is not telling you what to pray, how to pray or in what faith to pray.  Just that that day will be recognized as a day of prayer.  The only problem is Athiests are offended.  the other 364 days are not days of prayer so they get the long stick here

The problem isn’t a simplistic one such as someone being offended, but a more complex one of silly “feel good” laws that add to the burgeoning law books already.   I don’t understand why anyone would push for more laws and special days when it has no net effect on anything.

Kinda like your statement?

[hueco]

 So,if I decide to pray today or every day is that unconstitutional?

[Chrisj CMA]

So,if I decide to pray today or every day is that unconstitutional?

Only if its at school or in a government building.  Things are going to change

[fstsix]

Good point unless you are MUSLIM then it's OK........that would be discrimination.

[Robert]

Bobbo first nice to see you back even though as usual you are on the other side of the argument. The Bible says iron sharpens iron so its kinda good and stimulating when you bring up all the counter points even though some are really out there. And yes just sometimes to poke the bee hive and stir things up. So with that said I want to post this and the link to the accompanying article. It will come at things from a solid standpoint and express quite a bit how I feel. The only other point I wll make is thisJoh 3:16  "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17  "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18  "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19  "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20  "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Joh 3:21  "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
This is true love, all that practice hate in the name of God are false life does enough of that normally and He knows we need encouragement and help not condemnation. God is fully able to execute His own judgments without our help.Jesus with the supreme power to do anything up to and including destroy the world did not issue a reviling word. This does not mean we dont stand up to the hypocrisy that is sweeping across America now, and if you really wanted a free country then you would want the Christians to be in power. why because men in power unless they have the love of God in their heart will mow you down like a scalped lawn. Serving their own lusts and desires and not caring about the consequences of their actions. Kinda like now. But You will see.
As Ronald Reagan reminded us in 1988: “The First Continental Congress made its first act a prayer — the beginning of a great tradition. We have then, a lesson from the founders of our land, those giants of soul and intellect who¹s courageous pledge of life and fortune and sacred honor, and whose ‘firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,’ have ever guided and inspired Americans and all who would fan freedom’s mighty flames and live in ‘freedom’s holy light.’ That lesson is clear: That in the winning of freedom and in the living of life, the first step is prayer.” Reagan was ever so right to guide us toward an understanding that the Founders of this country nearly to a man were steeped in religion — and that of the Protestant, Christian variety, at that. Even the ones against organized religion believed in a God, one that put us here and gave us certain rights as espoused in the Declaration of Independence from Britain.
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/04/08/what-are-we-if-not-a-christian-nation/

[Robert]

So,if I decide to pray today or every day is that unconstitutional?

Unfortunately that is exactly what is happening especially in our military and schools plus if you start to piece together the assault on our faith you will see a disturbing picture. School prayer gone replaced by sex ed, school will no longer let church groups rent space but all others its ok. The city of Palm Beach no longer will let church buy and zone property to start churches, Whore house no problem Church, NOT. Its not one thing its the multitude of laws that have passed that make a full on assault. Piece by piece they take away the country as we know it. If you dont stand for something you will fall for anything. If you value your Faith at all or even your freedom then you will understand that its time to stop the tide of events that are happening now.

[Bobbo]

So,if I decide to pray today or every day is that unconstitutional?

Only if its at school or in a government building.  Things are going to change

You are well within your Constitutional Rights to pray in school, government buildings, or any other place you wish.  The Bill of Rights restricts government action, not the people’s actions.  Since public schools and government buildings are an extension of the government, any person in authority in these institutions cannot organize prayer, or promote any religious activity.  It’s a pretty basic concept, if you step back and look at it.

[Chrisj CMA]

So,if I decide to pray today or every day is that unconstitutional?

Only if its at school or in a government building.  Things are going to change

You are well within your Constitutional Rights to pray in school, government buildings, or any other place you wish.  The Bill of Rights restricts government action, not the people’s actions.  Since public schools and government buildings are an extension of the government, any person in authority in these institutions cannot organize prayer, or promote any religious activity.  It’s a pretty basic concept, if you step back and look at it.

The basic concept is that Christians (vast majority) has let Athiests (vast MINORITY) dictate rules based on their athiest sensitivities (and lately Muslims too).  I hear more and more about kids getting in trouble for having a Bible at school or praying at school, yet we have to pay for special foot washing tubs at some schools????????..........its becoming not just taboo for the official persons in authority......and if we let the snowball grow there will be someday idiots outside your house with recording devises trying to catch the few people that still pray to God  doing it out loud so they can say its offending someone.  The basic principle needs to be America is and always needs to remain a country that honors God.......and respects people that believes differently but when in America you should expect to hear about God, see things about God, and feel that we are a God fearing, God blessing society.  If thats not you, then so be it, thats your right!....however, if its too offensive to be around it at all, instead of getting rid of God from now on.........Maybe we should have the attitude if you cant stand a country that loves God, then find a new country.  If we dont turn it around, this whole argument will be moot because there wont be a United States of America much longer.

[Robert]

So,if I decide to pray today or every day is that unconstitutional?

Only if its at school or in a government building.  Things are going to change

You are well within your Constitutional Rights to pray in school, government buildings, or any other place you wish.  The Bill of Rights restricts government action, not the people’s actions.  Since public schools and government buildings are an extension of the government, any person in authority in these institutions cannot organize prayer, or promote any religious activity.  It’s a pretty basic concept, if you step back and look at it.

The basic concept is that Christians (vast majority) has let Athiests (vast MINORITY) dictate rules based on their athiest sensitivities (and lately Muslims too).  I hear more and more about kids getting in trouble for having a Bible at school or praying at school, yet we have to pay for special foot washing tubs at some schools????????..........its becoming not just taboo for the official persons in authority......and if we let the snowball grow there will be someday idiots outside your house with recording devises trying to catch the few people that still pray to God  doing it out loud so they can say its offending someone.  The basic principle needs to be America is and always needs to remain a country that honors God.......and respects people that believes differently but when in America you should expect to hear about God, see things about God, and feel that we are a God fearing, God blessing society.  If thats not you, then so be it, thats your right!....however, if its too offensive to be around it at all, instead of getting rid of God from now on.........Maybe we should have the attitude if you cant stand a country that loves God, then find a new country.  If we dont turn it around, this whole argument will be moot because there wont be a United States of America much longer.

I agree with Chris and its well said look I have a problem when a cross out in the desert on public land has to be taken down because some atheist wants to say it offends him and the court actually may back him up. What a load of bs. Obviously this atheist group has no respect for anyone's rights or wishes and used this important monument in the middle of the desert honoring some war dead to make a point over caring enough about the people that put this up. this is not the preservation of rights or a endorsement by government it is a vindictive way to manipulate the system to endorse a personal point. How about if someone dies on the side of the road and you as the family puts a cross there local government will pull that up and put a drive safety sign. That is a affront to me and personally offends me which the court ruled in favor of trampling on my personal rights. As for prayer in school its taken a real different turn than what you have said and maybe that is why you think its ok. They also had a day in school that the teacher taught about Mohamed and the students had to participate. How is this right?
http://www.donttearmedown.com/
If the court rules this should come down I really think we have to seriously think about changing things. 

[Robert]

WASHINGTON -- A San Francisco campus conflict between religious devotion and human sexuality will now give Justice John Paul Stevens a final opportunity to apply the First Amendment in the 21st century.
"Religious groups have a very important purpose in ensuring that members abide by their moral code," said Luke Goodrich, of the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, a conservative group that says it supports freedom of religious expression. "Groups can't survive if the government can force them to take unwanted members."
Just in case you think that Christianity isn't under fire including by the government

[Bobbo]

The basic concept is that Christians (vast majority) has let Athiests (vast MINORITY) dictate rules based on their athiest sensitivities (and lately Muslims too).  I hear more and more about kids getting in trouble for having a Bible at school or praying at school, yet we have to pay for special foot washing tubs at some schools????????..........its becoming not just taboo for the official persons in authority......and if we let the snowball grow there will be someday idiots outside your house with recording devises trying to catch the few people that still pray to God  doing it out loud so they can say its offending someone.  The basic principle needs to be America is and always needs to remain a country that honors God.......and respects people that believes differently but when in America you should expect to hear about God, see things about God, and feel that we are a God fearing, God blessing society.  If thats not you, then so be it, thats your right!....however, if its too offensive to be around it at all, instead of getting rid of God from now on.........Maybe we should have the attitude if you cant stand a country that loves God, then find a new country.  If we dont turn it around, this whole argument will be moot because there wont be a United States of America much longer.

This has never been about someone’s sensitivities, but rather constitutional law.  The US is a representative republic, not a democracy, so the majority will never dominate the laws.  This is to protect the minority from oppression.  When Christians become a minority, you will appreciate this!  There’s nothing wrong with having God in the USA, as long as it is not a part of government or laws.  As far as a new country, if you disagree with the First Amendment, there are many Middle Eastern countries that embrace incorporating God and religious based laws into their government.  Perhaps you would be happier there.

[Chrisj CMA]

Bobo you crack me up.....you can spin a subject tighter and more backwards than the media..........lol

See what you cannot see is that God is in everything already.  He is intrigal to the fabric of this nation, Christians are just for the aknowledgement of this and Athiests are for the denial of this.  The argument will never cease, its just time for Christians to step it up, we been hangin back sleeping on the job too long

[3fan4life]

Athiests can cry all day long that the mention of God, prayer, faith, church, religion offends them........

MATTHEW 24   v9  Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

v10 And then many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.


ATHEISTS ARE DOING GOD'S "WORK" AND THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW IT.

[fstsix]

Been doing a lot of thinking....about American polls,and America being more on the Conservative side,, If you would have ask me how many times in the last 50 years, how many conservative activist rallied out in the streets i would say it was unheard of with the exception of (Republican Martin Luther King) Well the conservatives were considered the Silent Majority always afraid of being out of line just standing back watching the Jane Fonda's of the World always pushing their point! Well The SILENT MAJORITY ARE NO LONGER SILENT!!!

Martin Luther King Explains the Tea Party Movement	powered by Aeva

Martin Luther King was a God fearing man.

[Hellcat]

What is the purpose of a National Day of Prayer? The Constitution gives us the right to pray to any God we want, any day we want.

What's the point of having a government mandated day of prayer then?

[Chrisj CMA]

What is the purpose of a National Day of Prayer? The Constitution gives us the right to pray to any God we want, any day we want.

What's the point of having a government mandated day of prayer then?

The purpose is clear and simple ....PRAYER.....the bigger question is not should we have it....WE ALREADY DO...the bigger question is what is gained by deeming it unconstitutional????????  Theres always a motive and a back story, the rest of the story, the hidden agenda.....you cant give an inch they will take a mile

[Robert]

A republic is a type of government where the citizens choose the leaders of their country [1]  and the people (or at least a part of its people)[2]  have an impact on its government.[3][4]  The word "republic" is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair".
Yes I do agree with you and the people that started this Republic were Christians and therefore the modern day politicians and all are subversives of this Republic. Trying and changing the original basis that this great Country was founded on. Not on English law but laws from the Bible and as much established to be a God fearing country with morals and ideas from the Bible not taken from modern Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Serk]

Treaty of Tripoli... Ratified by unanimous vote by the US Senate on June 7th, 1797, signed by president John Adams... (I.E. A whole lot of those fellows who were the founders were still involved and voted to ratify this treaty) included the following passage:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Take that however you will... I have my opinion on what it means, as I'm sure you will have your own. Nothing I say will change your opinion on it, and nothing you say will change mine, just putting that little fact out there for consideration...