Talk about WTF?.......

[QOTFU]

An illegal immigrant was convicted Tuesday in a crash that killed three people, including a 3-year-old boy inside an ice cream shop.

Jurors found Francis Hernandez, 25, of Guatemala guilty of vehicular homicide and other charges.

Prosecutors said Hernandez was driving an SUV at twice the speed limit when it crashed into a pickup truck, which in turn crashed into an ice cream store in the east Denver suburb of Aurora in September 2008.

The case sparked calls for immigration reform after Hernandez avoided deportation despite a dozen prior arrests in Colorado. Authorities said he used 12 aliases and two dates of birth to slip under the radar of immigration officials.

Killed in the crash were Marten Kudlis, who was inside the shop with his mother; Patricia Guntharp, 49, who was driving the truck; and her passenger Debra Serecky, 52.

Prosecutors said Hernandez ran a red light and was going more than 80 mph in a 40-mph zone when Guntharp turned left in front of him.

Defense lawyers argued that Hernandez's cousin was driving the SUV and that police ignored a witness report that there were two people in the vehicle. The cousin was later killed in a shooting.

The defense also said Guntharp shared the blame for the crash because an autopsy report showed she had methamphetamine in her system.

Prosecutors said Hernandez's DNA was on the driver-side air bag, and there was no evidence Guntharp was driving badly.

[fstsix]

Just had a Sad flashback to 1992 when i read this, My Daughter was in High school and i received a phone call from her at school early morning, She was in tears really upset, She had just drove into the school parking lot about 50 yards away from what could have been her, She ran over to this wreck on the corner of her school and was horrified when she seen body parts in trees and the fence around the school, come to find out one on the boys killed was her old boyfriend, This was National News back then and they showed her crying hugging one of her friends on TV, she told me she just went through that intersection seconds before, AND it's ALL The Immigration Officers Fault was the outcry of the locals. Left Cal in that summer and Refused to EVER give the Government of CAL a DIME again for not protecting the American citizens.                                                                                  s→Border Patrol (u.s.)
5 Killed as Truck Fleeing Border Agents Crashes
Accident: Vehicle with 13 immigrants plows into a car and hits students. High-speed chase is criticized.
June 03, 1992|SEBASTIAN ROTELLA and PATRICK J. McDONNELL, TIMES STAFF WRITERS

TEMECULA, Calif. — A Stolen Chevrolet Suburban fleeing Border Patrol agents crashed at high speed into a passing car outside a high school Tuesday, killing four students and a father driving his son to school and injuring the 13 occupants of the camper.

The accident occurred just after 7:30 a.m. as horrified students arrived for classes at Temecula Valley High School. Wreckage and bodies were strewn across a busy intersection in this fast-growing, semirural community in southern Riverside County, renewing controversy over Border Patrol policy on high-speed chases.


The stolen Suburban carrying 13 suspected illegal immigrants ran a red light and smashed into an Acura Legend with such force that it tore the smaller vehicle in half, killing the father, his son and a teen-age friend, authorities said.

"There was metal and glass and rubber and people . . . all went up in the sky," said Jason Boles, a driver who witnessed the crash. "There was notebook paper all over the place so I knew there were kids involved. And I could see the dad in the front seat of the Acura with his suit on, and he was dead."

The careening truck also struck and killed two students walking on the sidewalk: a brother and sister whose mother, a reporter, learned of their deaths as she was covering the accident for her newspaper.

"The kids were on the sidewalk just where they were supposed to be and they got killed," said Riverside County Sheriff's Investigator Henry Sawicki.

Four of the suspected illegal immigrants suffered serious injuries when the truck overturned. The driver--a suspected smuggler from Mexico--and eight other passengers were treated for minor injuries, then turned over to police for questioning. The driver is a juvenile and his name was not released.

The accident revived arguments about Border Patrol chases in cities near Southern California freeway immigration checkpoints.

After Tuesday's tragedy, some angry Temecula residents and officials questioned why immigration agents pursued suspects into a residential area near a school.

The high-speed chase began after the Suburban left northbound Interstate 15, drove on surface roads around a Border Patrol freeway checkpoint near here, and returned to the freeway. A Border Patrol vehicle began to chase the Suburban, which left the freeway again and sped into the town.
The Border Patrol stopped the chase a mile before the Crash they just kept speeding away!

[czuch]

Arizona's new shiny law, you know, the one that mirrors FEDERAL POLICY isnt enough.

[sandy]

Arizona's new shiny law, you know, the one that mirrors FEDERAL POLICY isnt enough.

It's amazing how our new law (SB1070) mimics federal law but the Feds don't have the money or manpower to enforce it. AZ makes a law giving local cops the right to ask about status and now we're being called racists and whole states are boycotting AZ as a destination. Why is nobody boycotting the Feds: like stop paying taxes if we're not getting proper protection from illegals. NOTE: I never said Mexicans.

[fudgie]

How about they start letting the Minute Men really help out. See if they can really run the border under hails of gunfire.  I know I would be shot if I was tresspassing. 

[John Schmidt]

Any business caught hiring an illegal: automatic $10,000 fine and six months jail...mandatory. That would make a big difference in a short time.

[Jack]

3 yrs ago, a co-worker on his motorcycle was rear-ended by an illegal resident who imediately ran away leaving Larry lying in the street.  The car was traced and had changed hands a number of times in the past couple of years.  However, none had gone thru the trouble of having the title recorded.  As a result, all the police know is that witnesses told them a young hispanic was seen leaving the scene.  Larry no longer rides due to his family's wishes.

[ChromeDome]

Any business caught hiring an illegal: automatic $10,000 fine and six months jail...mandatory. That would make a big difference in a short time.

That's the problem .... the penalty is not sever enough to stop hiring illegals .... maybe it should $100,000 per illegal. Could then use the money as extra funds for the Border Patrol.

[wdvalk]

I agree with John,make illegals more illegal!

[fudgie]

I agree with John,make illegals more illegal!

Now thats not very pc. Undocumented americans is what they want to be called. 

[Daniel Meyer]

Any business caught hiring an illegal: automatic $10,000 fine and six months jail...mandatory. That would make a big difference in a short time.

That's the problem .... the penalty is not sever enough to stop hiring illegals .... maybe it should $100,000 per illegal. Could then use the money as extra funds for the Border Patrol.

Devil's advocate here...as a business...HOW do you determine immigration status?

[fudgie]

Any business caught hiring an illegal: automatic $10,000 fine and six months jail...mandatory. That would make a big difference in a short time.

That's the problem .... the penalty is not sever enough to stop hiring illegals .... maybe it should $100,000 per illegal. Could then use the money as extra funds for the Border Patrol.

Devil's advocate here...as a business...HOW do you determine immigration status?

Back ground check? Most do it already for its workers. I need to show ID, SSN, and my State Certs. All which could be checked. Not sure, good Q.

[Serk]

Devil's advocate here...as a business...HOW do you determine immigration status?

With E-Verify...

http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1185221678150.shtm

Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's something... And yeah, if a person checks out there, you hire 'em, and they turn out to be illegal, having run 'em through E-Verify should be a defense to prosecution... (Which I realize opens up some big loopholes, but it's at least SOMETHING.)

[LandElephant]

Daniel,

There is a form that all employees are suppose to use called the I-9 which reguires all employees to provide proof that they are either citizens USA or have the right to work in the United States.  All employees.

But here is the kicker.  If the DOL finds that they are filled out incorrectly it is just a $50 fine per individual.  There is no national database that employers can check to verify SSN's, DLs, and so forth and the entire responsibility is placed on the individual employer.

Do you think that Day laborers fill this document out?  Imagine the expense that it would take.

Here a question for everybody.  Can you tell the difference between a fake Drivers Licience and a real one?  SSN card?  Student ID?  That is what employers are suppose to be able to do when an employee hires on.

Imagine the cost to managing that as a small business.  But thats a document that has been around for years.  Imigration Reform is the same as Gun Control.  Start enforcing existing laws instead of adding new ones.  Might surprised how these issues would all of a sudden become more manageable.


I;ll use this example.  I worked a project in 2003 where I had ten employees show up to work for a sub contractor.  In reviewing the I-9 I saw a pattern that didn't seem right.  Looking further the DL of a 10 had the same address and OMG the same document number.  Then I looked and they had used 2 different SSN's for 10 employees.  The subcontractor didn't even blink when I mentioned that to them.  That night 10 illegals were heading home.  No work, no money, no stay.

That is what AZ has introduced with higher fines.

OFF my soap box.

Charlie
Land Elephant

[Daniel Meyer]

Devil's advocate here...as a business...HOW do you determine immigration status?

With E-Verify...

http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1185221678150.shtm

Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's something... And yeah, if a person checks out there, you hire 'em, and they turn out to be illegal, having run 'em through E-Verify should be a defense to prosecution... (Which I realize opens up some big loopholes, but it's at least SOMETHING.)

Well, that's as close as anything I've seen to something that might work. The problem with the I-9 is that if it's filled out completely, as an employer the only authority I have to question its contents is to view the supporting documents...IE I can check the DL#/ID or SS card. Can I spot a fake? Maybe...but once again, there are no ready tools for me to verify that. Also many states issue DL's/id's regardless of immigration status if other qualifications are met. This means that an illegal may have a valid id.

Locally, Farmer's Branch (a city) passed tough immigration laws. One provision was a landlord could not rent to an illegal immigrant. Problem is, there is no way for a landlord to verify immigration status. By law, ONLY the Federal government has the authority or right to determine a person's immigration status...and they don't give you a way to check on somebody else. Their local judges struck it down for that reason...IE the landlords could NOT be burdened with what is exclusively a federal determination...and then the federal courts struck it down for the same reason.

Results? Millions in legal fees and no change whatsoever in illegal immigration...

AZ is going to have the same problem.

So, as an employer, I can get the I-9 filled out. Check the ID or DL and the SS card, and maybe even get a hit from the link above...but all that may prove is that the guy is good at getting documents.

I don't know the answers...but we haven't even asked all the right questions yet.