Hang Tough Arizona...Will they cave to the pressure ? I hope not.

[Kidd]

I think we should just bus all the Hispanic   looking people back across the border and  the ones with the proper  papers can return .

Jon Stewart  of Comedy Central says Ariz is a Meth  State   , he may be right

That may be the most ignorant, inflamitory post I have seen on this board. I truly hope you are simply trying to start an argument, The thought that you might be serious is frightening.

What's frightening is being in your back yard when some gun toting illegal comes walking through and takes a drink out of your garden hose before he sees you and runs off.  I've got friends who live along South Mountain here in Phoenix who do not go out at night for just this reason.

Folks, if you've never been accosted in your back yard then you have no clue of which you speak.  I moved here from a suburb of Chicago called Harvey because of the drug wars there.  Prior to getting my parents out of that town I counted eight bullet holes in their garage and one in their back yard swing.  Had they been sitting on that swing they would have been shot.  One of the bullets went through the garage window, through the passenger side window of my dads car and logged in his dash.  Three or four years ago about five Harvey cops and one fire fighter were arrested for selling drugs from city vehicles.  This is no joke.  It's getting serious.

So tonight when you sit in your cozy back yard with your special lady be thankful that you can do so without fear of being shot.  Here in Arizona every night we hear about someone getting killed, run over, shot, or sliced up, babies killed in random or not so randon drive by shootings and there is always at least one illegal involved.  That is what we are tired of living with.  If you want to be a liberal then I suggest you fly down here, we'll take you out to the border and you can walk along the border at night.  When they come accross with their goods you can be as liberal as you want with your own life.

In Harvey I slept with a gun under my pillow for most of my adult life there and here in AZ I am fully permitted to carry.

It's ignorant stupid  people who criticize   how we feel and what we do about this problem , they live in areas where there's no problem   .
We don't have a serious  problem in Sedona  like in Phx  and Tucson  , but I read the paper every day and watch the news  , I know .
We should of done this 20 years ago  , god I hate  out gov , sometimes

[fudgie]

Good write up Des! 

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

Update ....A  copy / paste with follow-up on my original post.....



AP-Univision Poll: Immigration splits Americans
By ALAN FRAM, AP
2 hours ago

 
 WASHINGTON — Illegal immigrants are a boon, not a burden to the country, a resounding majority of Hispanics say, according to an Associated Press-Univision Poll that underscores sharp contrasts between the views of Hispanics and others. Most non-Hispanics say illegal immigrants are a drain on society.

In addition, most Hispanics condemn Arizona's strict new law targeting undocumented immigrants, while only 20 percent of non-Hispanics oppose it.

The survey also found some remarkably similar views between Hispanics and non-Hispanics on the complex, emotional issue of immigration, which has gained prominence this election year. About two-thirds of both groups consider illegal immigration a serious problem, only a quarter of each think the Arizona law will ease the state's troubles and the largest portion of both populations think current limits on legal immigration should be left alone.

Even so, much of the poll — which questioned 901 Hispanic adults and was compared to a separate survey of the general population — reads as if soundings were taken of two distinct worlds, an impression fortified by follow-up interviews.

"People are not coming to this country to do bad things, people are coming to make money for their families," said Javier Zurita, 43, a factory worker in Garfield, N.J., a U.S. citizen from Ecuador. "These people love this country, they've had sons and daughters in this country."

William Ryan, 38, a contractor from Elkridge, Md., sees things differently.

"It seems like every working illegal immigrant has four family members who don't work. And we're paying for all of them," said Ryan, who is white and non-Hispanic.

According to the poll, 74 percent of Hispanics said the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants mostly contribute to society. Just 35 percent of non-Hispanics agreed, with 60 percent saying illegal immigrants are largely a drain.

Some 67 percent of Hispanics said they oppose the Arizona statute. Just 20 percent of non-Hispanics oppose it, with 45 percent favoring it and 30 percent neutral. The law allows local police to demand citizenship papers from people they suspect of being here illegally and to detain them if they can't produce the documents.

"If I go to the convenience store for a gallon of milk, I don't carry those kinds of things," said Martin Ortiz, 37, a U.S.-born citizen and maintenance worker from San Diego. "I just slap on a pair of shorts. And a police officer notices me? Why should I get detained?"

Countering that viewpoint was Michael Doucet, 25, a technician from Houston who is white and non-Hispanic. He wants existing laws enforced and backs the new Arizona statute.

"Illegals are illegal," said Doucet. "It's not a problem with discrimination, it's not a problem with whites hating Hispanics, it is what it is. Most illegals are Hispanic."

Underlining the divergent reactions to the Arizona law, seven in 10 Hispanics hope their states don't enact similar statutes, more than double the non-Hispanics who feel that way.

Nearly nine in 10 Hispanics said a way should be found to help illegal immigrants already in this country become citizens, an idea that wins support from just over half of non-Hispanics. Some 62 percent of non-Hispanics — compared with just 24 percent of Hispanics — think being in the U.S. illegally should be considered a serious crime.

By 73 percent to 46 percent, more Hispanics than others said police crackdowns on illegal immigrants are likely to target Hispanics unfairly. About three quarters of Hispanics said they would consider it a big problem if Arizona police questioned a Hispanic who turned out to be here legally, more than double the non-Hispanics who said so.

"It's not one of these things where the Left would have you believe the Gestapo will be out there stomping down doors," said John Wagner, 60, a manager with the Department of Homeland Security from Las Cruces, N.M.

But Jackie Gallegos, 18, a high school student from El Paso, Texas, said she resented intrusions the Arizona law would allow.

"People are living here, working here, why shouldn't they have rights?" she said.

While both groups agree that illegal immigration is a serious problem, 83 percent of non-Hispanics think the federal government should be doing more about it, while 52 percent of Hispanics voice that view.

Hispanics trust Democrats more than Republicans to handle immigration, while it's the other way around for non-Hispanics. Still, only 45 percent of Hispanics approve of how President Barack Obama is dealing with the issue — one of the few national issues where they rate his performance relatively poorly.

In other findings:

_ Almost nine in 10 Hispanics say illegal immigrants take jobs Americans don't want, compared with six in 10 non-Hispanics.

_ More than a quarter of Hispanics say they would not have had documentation proving their status had they been stopped by police the day they answered the poll, about double the rate for non-Hispanics.

_ Most Hispanics say only the federal government should enforce immigration laws, while a majority of non-Hispanics want local police involved.

The AP-Univision Poll was conducted from May 7-12 by GfK Roper Public Affairs & Media. It involved landline and cell phone interviews with 901 Hispanic adults and had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 5.3 percentage points.

The findings were compared to a separate poll of 1,002 people from the general population, also by GfK Roper. It involved cell and landline interviews conducted from May 7-11, and had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.3 percentage points.

[Oss]

I always thought that a state should have a right to control its borders as long as it does
not impede Interstate Commerce (the commerce clause), Arizona is within its constitutional rights to protect itself along the international border.  This right predates the constitution and goes back to the time of the French and Indian wars

The State militia's under the 2nd amendment have a right to be armed and do what needs to be done especially if the Federal government is either unwilling or unable to enforce the borders  Its commander in chief is the governor and he is a true patriot in my book.

 I wish Arizona good luck in this fight. They are not seeking succession they are seeking survival



 - BE STRONG AND OF GOOD COURAGE - Arizona  you are not alone

[Gunslinger]

I still fail to see how this can logically be seen as an issue?

I carry identification 99% of the time. Any time I am stopped by a police officer I expect to be required to show that identification. Is this not normal in most states for most citizens?

It has been my understanding from the beginning that this law was proposed to require law enforcement agencies to ENFORCE laws that are already on the books (Am I incorrect?)

[MP]

The problem, Gunslinger, is that you do not understand. 

It is perfectly OK to ask us white Americans for ID, but to ask a dark skinned person for ID is profiling, racist, unconstitutional, and just totally against all that America stands for.

MP

[Spirited-6]

 is perfectly OK to ask us white Americans for ID, but to ask a dark skinned person for ID is profiling, racist, unconstitutional, and just totally against all that America stands for.

AND WHY IS THAT OK ? 

[MP]

I said it tongue in cheek.  I do NOT think it is OK.  My point, why is it OK to ask a white person, but not a colored person the same thing?   The statements are all ones opponents have used.

MP

[Gunslinger]

The problem, Gunslinger, is that you do not understand. 

It is perfectly OK to ask us white Americans for ID, but to ask a dark skinned person for ID is profiling, racist, unconstitutional, and just totally against all that America stands for.

MP

I'm so sorry! You are correct, I really am an idiot. I will try and drink more Kool-Aid in the future, why should I think that equality meant that everyone should be treated equally?

[Hoser]

Slinger, I know MP personally, he is agreeing with you. As do I.   hoser

[Clark]

Slinger, I know MP personally, he is agreeing with you. As do I.   hoser

  I'm thinkin this country is not exdempt from a another civil war.....someday

[G-Man]

An Illinois school just stopped their girls basketball team from going to AZ for a tournament, citing it was for the girls "safety".  They said it was not because of the new law.  But later in the same statement, they talked about AZ's values and ethics.

Safety my arse.  It was all political.

I say Inzane in AZ next year!  Thanks, Joe.

MP

This story is VERY SAD.  These girls worked their asses off and the school finally has a team that took 26 years to make it.  The girls had several fundraisers and had scheduled more in order to raise money for the trip.  They are a great group and these are the people who should be admired, not punished.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT THAT THIS IS POLITICAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last night on FOX, they showed 4 or 5 clips of Eric Holder denouncing the law, then showed a clip dated AFTER where he admitts to not ever reading the 10 page law.  It comes from the top.  Obama cried that if you take your kids for ice cream in AZ you will be stopped and asked for your papers.  The phuking President of the United States of America is spreading lies, polarizing it's citizens, punishing good people for the action of illegal people, and half of this country is STILL with this guy.......

It is true....YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.  Even if it's glaring them in the face, the stupidity is just overwhelming that they can't see past it.  Heaven help us all.

[MP]

Gunslinger,

As Hoser said, I am agreeing with you.  I said it tongue in cheek.  I thought it was so far out there, it would be understood.  I posted a 2nd time saying it was tongue in cheek, you must have missed that one.

That is the biggest problem with forums like this.  No tone of voice, no infliction, no facial expressions.

It was my fault for not saying it was tongue in cheek.  It was meant to be sarcastic, meaning how come us white dudes get asked for ID all the time, and it is OK, but if you are a minority, it is racist, etc. to ask the same thing.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, my bad.

MP

[Jeff K]

I said it tongue in cheek.  I do NOT think it is OK.  My point, why is it OK to ask a white person, but not a colored person the same thing?   The statements are all ones opponents have used.

MP

Because that might lead to showing ID before you can vote!

[RoadKill]

Gunslinger,

As Hoser said, I am agreeing with you.  I said it tongue in cheek.  I thought it was so far out there, it would be understood.  I posted a 2nd time saying it was tongue in cheek, you must have missed that one.

That is the biggest problem with forums like this.  No tone of voice, no infliction, no facial expressions.

It was my fault for not saying it was tongue in cheek.  It was meant to be sarcastic, meaning how come us white dudes get asked for ID all the time, and it is OK, but if you are a minority, it is racist, etc. to ask the same thing.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, my bad.

MP

ROFLMAO ! He "Got IT" ! GunSlinger was just returning the sarcasm.

     "I'm so sorry! You are correct, I really am an idiot. I will try and drink more Kool-Aid in the future, why should I think that equality meant that everyone should be treated equally?"
 
     He's had enough Kool-Aid already and I doubt he puts much effort into drinking more in the future...LOL !   

[ataDude #62]

...

It is true....YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.  Even if it's glaring them in the face, the stupidity is just overwhelming that they can't see past it.  Heaven help us all.[/size]

Unfortunately, I do not believe that it's stupidity... which implies they are not aware of the consequences to their actions and words.  It is being done on purpose, and for a well thought-out reason... more voters.   Period. 

[Clark]

...

It is true....YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.  Even if it's glaring them in the face, the stupidity is just overwhelming that they can't see past it.  Heaven help us all.[/size]

Unfortunately, I do not believe that it's stupidity... which implies they are not aware of the consequences to their actions and words.  It is being done on purpose, and for a well thought-out reason... more voters.   Period. 

  DANG.. Where's Scanner and chickenman when we need some words of WIT

[Jeff K]

...

It is true....YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.  Even if it's glaring them in the face, the stupidity is just overwhelming that they can't see past it.  Heaven help us all.[/size]

Unfortunately, I do not believe that it's stupidity... which implies they are not aware of the consequences to their actions and words.  It is being done on purpose, and for a well thought-out reason... more voters.   Period. 

  DANG.. Where's Scanner and chickenman when we need some words of WIT

He's over on the "union" thread.

[fstsix]

And The Real Problem is.................Why is it that all these Harvard scholars CANT READ!!!!!! and the Main Man Mr President is a Constitutional Professor ? Oh Wait that's right.....depends on what the meaning of  IS..IS WHAT A JOKE these Parasites ARE!!!!     

Eric Holder Admits He Hasn't Read Arizona Immigration Bill	powered by Aeva

[QOTFU]

Sounds like a good reason to try to visit Arizona this year as a tourist.  Support them.

MP

Sounds like a good time for a Valk meet-up ride!

[firea100]

You folks in Az. hang tuff! Go getum Sherriff Joe!! Larry in Est China Mi. 

[big turkey]

No show Obama is no help.

Military is the only way to inforce the borders.

Politicians and big business better get out of the way.

If'n you need help on that Border I have some vacation.

Ever heard of the Tennessee Volunteers, Davy Crockett and the like.

Holler have Mini 14 wiht scope willing to travel.

I'll barrow or steal whatever else I need to defend America.

A Big Al

The Alamo - Davy Crockett Playing Violin	powered by Aeva

[Cruzen]

......And as soon as the law of concealed carry goes into affect, you can bet your LEGAL ARSES I wll be packing! I already carry openly now but not all the time.
INZANE 11 ARIZONA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring your firearms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe we can have a VALKYRIE RIDERS SHOOT OFF COMPETITION!!!! LMAO!! Just a thought!!!....

I spend at least one hour per month practicing shooting left handed.  Those who are normally left handed already have an advantage. 

[big turkey]

Keep them guns oiled and your powder dry we may need ya'll before it's over .

The Mexicans are mad and they may need a little reminder on how Tennesseeans can

kick their everloving asses. I mean arses.

Don't budge an inch Arizona.

we need you to take a stand.

Big Al

[asfltdncr]

Keep them guns oiled and your powder dry we may need ya'll before it's over .

The Mexicans are mad and they may need a little reminder on how Tennesseeans can

kick their everloving asses. I mean arses.

Don't budge an inch Arizona.

we need you to take a stand.

Big Al

You're going to be pretty busy this summer.You still got to shut down all those muslim terrorist  taining camps operating throughout the U.S. that Faux Noise enlightnened so many of you.
Amen-Pass the Bottle.

[asfltdncr]

DID YOU KNOW...that the people of California were so far ahead of the rest of the country in the attempt to stop illegal immigration?  It was called Prop 187 or SOS (save our state).  And there were states that either boycotted California, or threatened to do so.  Prop 187 was voted in by the people but not upheld by the courts.  A lot has happened since 1994 and now the illegal immigration problem has spread to other parts of the country, especially Texas and Arizona.  California has a pretty good fence now forcing the problem east.  I recall some or much of Texas fought the building of a fence along the border.  Said it would change the "color" or their communities.
You see, ya just didn't give a shi.. when it was affecting Californians.
Hold on to your hats (and jobs), now the illegal immigration issue has spread to your communities.
By the way, I'm predicting that Arizona's chest-puffing effort will be shot down very soon much like it did in California.

[RoadKill]

 QUOTE........ "Amen-Pass the Bottle." 

Nice to see you're comin' around to my way of thinkin'! 

"Prop 187 was voted in by the people but not upheld by the courts."  That sums up the whole freakin problem!  Now pass the bottle back asfltdncr.We,the people must enforce what's right our damn selves! What are we paying the Gov't for anyhow?

[asfltdncr]

QUOTE........ "Amen-Pass the Bottle." 

Nice to see you're comin' around to my way of thinkin'! 

"Prop 187 was voted in by the people but not upheld by the courts."  That sums up the whole freakin problem!  Now pass the bottle back asfltdncr.We,the people must enforce what's right our damn selves! What are we paying the Gov't for anyhow?

Times are more severe now but the people of California tried to mitigate the illegal problems a long time ago so I'm not sure why some of the members responding to this thread suggesting sending them to California.  They are having the same problems that Arizona and Texas are, just worse (accepting the violence that has crossed ecently).

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I started this thread on May 12 ....This just in May18


Immigrant crossings into Arizona on the rise
By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ, AP
1 hour ago

 
 NOGALES, Mexico — The migrants walk for days through miles of mesquite scrub, running low on food and sometimes water, paying armed drug thug "guides" and dodging U.S. law enforcement officers along the way. And still they keep coming. The latest figures show that Arizona, which is about to put into effect the nation's toughest immigration law, also is the only border state where illegal crossings are on the rise.

While tightened security and daunting fences in Texas and California have made Arizona a busy crossing corridor for years, migrant smugglers now are finding new ways through the state's treacherous deserts.

Carmen Gonzalez, 27, recalled seven days and six nights of walking with her husband in the desert and being accosted by Mexican thugs with AK-47s, who demanded $100 bribes before abandoning them.

"It was so hard and so ugly," Gonzalez said at a shelter in this Mexican border town, where she, her husband and her brother were staying after being deported from Arizona. "I won't try again because we went through too much suffering in the desert."

New U.S. Border Patrol statistics show arrests on the Arizona border were up 6 percent — by about 10,000 — from October to April, even as apprehension of illegals dropped 9 percent overall. The agency uses arrests to gauge the flow of migrants; there are no precise figures on the number of illegal crossings.

Statistics from the Mexican side also show a rise in illegal crossings through Arizona.

Grupo Beta, a Mexican government-sponsored group that aids migrants, helped 5,279 people from January to April in the area across the border from Douglas, Ariz., compared to 3,767 in the same period last year, said agent Carlos Oasaya.

That's the same area where Arizona rancher Robert Krentz was fatally shot in March as he surveyed his property in an all-terrain vehicle. Authorities suspect an illegal immigrant who was headed back to Mexico and worked as a scout for drug smugglers.

The killing helped fuel the emotion around the Arizona law, which will empower police to question and arrest anyone they suspect is in the country illegally. It takes effect in July.

Immigration is likely to be at the top of the agenda Wednesday when Mexican President Felipe Calderon visits Washington and attends a state dinner at the White House. Calderon has condemned Arizona's law; President Barack Obama has called it "misguided" and promised to begin tackling an immigration overhaul.

Supporters of the Arizona law said Tuesday that the growth in arrests at the border didn't spur its passing.

Instead, it was a series of factors, including the discovery of a growing numbers of immigrant safe houses and a rise in crime by illegal immigrants who have injured and killed police officers, said state Rep. John Kavanagh.

In the 1990s, increased enforcement and corrugated metal and chain-link fences dramatically cut illegal border crossings in California and Texas.

Overall, illegal immigration through those two states, New Mexico and Arizona has declined from nearly 1.2 million in 2005 to 541,000 last year, according to the Border Patrol. In Arizona, illegal crossings fell from 578,000 in 2005 to nearly 250,000 last year — before the recent rise.

Immigration experts have long predicted the decline in crossings would reverse as the U.S. economy recovers.

"The fact is that as long as there remains an economic disparity between the U.S. and Mexico and other Latin American countries, enforcement and sanctions and any other measure won't stop the flow of migrants," said Charles Pope, interim director of the Trans-Border Institute at the University of San Diego.

Despite the recent spike in illegal crossings into Arizona, entering the state illegally is getting tougher.

U.S. Border Patrol drones scan for drug and migrant smugglers in the desert. Twelve-foot steel walls now separate the crossings through Nogales, south of Tucson, and Agua Prieta across from Douglas.

The desert around the hamlet of Sasabe, a smuggling way-station of a few dozen houses, is a drug trafficking corridor used by the Sinaloa cartel. Migrants and Mexican officials say heavily armed drug traffickers have been demanding fees since at least 2007 to allow migrants to pass.

Gonzalo Altamirano, a 19-year-old mechanic from the southern Mexican state of Oaxaca, jumped over a fence into Arizona from Agua Prieta. He surrendered to authorities after waiting two days for a van that never arrived.

It was Altamirano's second time crossing illegally into the United States — he lived and worked in Oklahoma for nine months in 2007 before getting so homesick he returned to Mexico. He intends to try again.

"I'm poor and will always look for a way to cross," he said. "Even if they add more security or whatever."

[big turkey]

Marty Robbins - Ballad of the Alamo	powered by Aeva

[big turkey]

Down there in Talledega there is a big track they try to lick.

I went around that thing a flying it looked pretty quick.

Looked over at the driver as he kissed the wall a bit.

It's sure a good thing Al you got your Big Iron on your Hip.

Almost did not fit into that car we,,,,,,,, risked.

But I had to carry that Big Iron On My Hip.

Race Drivers, Movie Stars, and cars that sometimes flip.

Only 178 was all he could get , cause Al had a big iron on his hip.


Ole Al may be a dandy , Rides a Valk like a Flash,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and he's pretty quick.

With a Big Iron on his hip.

Marty Robbins - Big Iron	powered by Aeva

[valkmc]

According to my brother who works for a security company paid by the feds, they are no going non-stop returning these individuals to Mexico, not to mention all of the South and Central American countries. He used to work 4 10's but in the last few weeks he has been working 6 12s. He made a very good salary prior to all the overtime.

He has mentioned the last two times I spoke with him that he is a little concerned about safety. He drives the bus, wears a vest and carries a 9, the other officers on the bus have m 1s I believe but he says they transport some pretty bad a$$ guys and they will do anything to stay. One good thing about him is he will kick a$$ first and ask questions later, thats why the company likes him. Still it is not the safest thing to be doing.

[asfltdncr]

The violence in Mexico might be attributed to the spike in illegal crossings.  Mexicans are scared for their families.  If we spent the money that we currently spend "fighting the war on drugs" in enforcing our border and port security, we would have been a lot better off.
Our government has spent well in excess of 10 billion dollars on reefer alone and now it appears that it will be legalized in the near future.  It's a good cash crop with tax dollars that could be dripping off of it and without the country's paranoia, we could actually be growing hemp once again (w/o thc).  Hemp has more uses than baking powder.
There are many issues that just won't be touched by either party.  We'll see if this administration is any different than those before it and will tackle the immigration and border security problem.

You ought to see the amount of resources being spent on our borders in the north.  It seemed like the manpower doubled when Bush finally through a bunch of money at border security.  Some of those resources should be used on our southern border.
 

[sugerbear]

i wonder how much they would charge to send em the other way

"Mexican thugs with AK-47s"

i mean there already there and know the country pretty well.

[asfltdncr]

Toooo funny who in their right mind would want a contract anyway with Bankrupt California, the check would bounce Or would that be a IOU they are still handing out LOL!!!   I left in 1992 after the riots i went to a small town called Colorado Springs CO and just that summer alone, in just that little town DMV In The springs reported 20.000 California Drivers license were surrendered that summer, not counting ever other city and every other State in America, besides only 35% of the residence in CA pay taxes anyway  pointless LOL!!! http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/The-aerospace-exodus-from-California-92804739.html

Are you still in the "Springs".I was stationed there during my stint in the Army.Lived in Manitou and Green Mountain Falls.Looked again at retirement and it was fun to see the changes.We used to race cars up and down Nevada (old downtown main boulevard?) and now it looks like a pretty trendy location.Great Victorians(Wood St.?).Question marks relate to memory.Sorry to see development up to, or within Garden of the Gods.Town appeared to be laid out a little funky or we just couldn't get a handle on it.You're probably thinking, "thank God for that".I am pretty sure that there would have been room for both of us.When I was young and ....well...I spent a 4th of July weekend in the hardrock hotel in Castle Rock.The, they would take us "jailbirds" across the street to the diner (I ate there again when I visited) twice a day.The town felt like Mayberry then.I guess Castle Rock became a bedroom community for Denver's wealthier.I haven't checked since the market fell but homes were on the same pricing tier as Southern Cal coastal communities.I suspect if you are still there, you probably have nice rides up the 24 and to Cripple Creek and down to Canon City, amongst so many other beautiful rides.I felt comfortable there becasue of my military but couldn't convince the wife.If you're still there, hope it doesn't change to become what you ran away from in California.Huge Evangelical community so I assume that fits you very well.
Stay safe Fstsix and watch out for those snow storms that come from God knows where in a New York minute.

[Mickey Runie]

Are you still in the "Springs".I was stationed there during my stint in the Army.Lived in Manitou and Green Mountain Falls.Looked again at retirement and it was fun to see the changes.We used to race cars up and down Nevada (old downtown main boulevard?) and now it looks like a pretty trendy location.Great Victorians(Wood St.?).Question marks relate to memory.Sorry to see development up to, or within Garden of the Gods.Town appeared to be laid out a little funky or we just couldn't get a handle on it.You're probably thinking, "thank God for that".I am pretty sure that there would have been room for both of us.When I was young and ....well...I spent a 4th of July weekend in the hardrock hotel in Castle Rock.The, they would take us "jailbirds" across the street to the diner (I ate there again when I visited) twice a day.The town felt like Mayberry then.I guess Castle Rock became a bedroom community for Denver's wealthier.I haven't checked since the market fell but homes were on the same pricing tier as Southern Cal coastal communities.I suspect if you are still there, you probably have nice rides up the 24 and to Cripple Creek and down to Canon City, amongst so many other beautiful rides.I felt comfortable there becasue of my military but couldn't convince the wife.If you're still there, hope it doesn't change to become what you ran away from in California.Huge Evangelical community so I assume that fits you very well.
Stay safe Fstsix and watch out for those snow storms that come from God knows where in a New York minute.

THE VERY NERVE OF SOME PEOPLE!  You talk about Colorado Springs - and don't even mention the 7 Falls attraction?   

If anyone ever visits Colorado Springs, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND a visit to that particular place.   An evening visit to 7 Falls is included in my vision of what Heaven must really be like!   IMO it is truly a spectacular spot to see.   


I've never ridden a bike there, but plan on changing that oversight someday. - there, it's motorcyle related.

[czuch]

Tucson chiming in here.
I went Bow hunting last year with a friend. We were in the way back and I went as "rifle" man.
I was virtually security as he was legally "Bow Hunting."
It reminded me of earlier days. Armed to the teeth and on the lookout. The only difference was I was wheezing cause that was 28 years and 40 lbs ago. Still lotsa fun. We saw 4 groupos de travelleros.
Stayed low and went undetected. That took 3 days and we lost interest. They were all armed and didnt look like they wanted to talk.
I'm lovin the "new law" that reflects the FEDERAL law that wont be enforced.
2010/2012/2013

[czuch]

And another thing;
InZane AZ would be a riot!  We have a "Tail-o-the Dragon" here too. Its from Safford to Show Low.

[big turkey]

I vote we Zane In in Showlow, Az. sounds like a cool place.

Do you have a Hooter's rest. there?

If so it's a go.

Big Al

[fstsix]

Toooo funny who in their right mind would want a contract anyway with Bankrupt California, the check would bounce Or would that be a IOU they are still handing out LOL!!!   I left in 1992 after the riots i went to a small town called Colorado Springs CO and just that summer alone, in just that little town DMV In The springs reported 20.000 California Drivers license were surrendered that summer, not counting ever other city and every other State in America, besides only 35% of the residence in CA pay taxes anyway  pointless LOL!!! http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/The-aerospace-exodus-from-California-92804739.html

Are you still in the "Springs".I was stationed there during my stint in the Army.Lived in Manitou and Green Mountain Falls.Looked again at retirement and it was fun to see the changes.We used to race cars up and down Nevada (old downtown main boulevard?) and now it looks like a pretty trendy location.Great Victorians(Wood St.?).Question marks relate to memory.Sorry to see development up to, or within Garden of the Gods.Town appeared to be laid out a little funky or we just couldn't get a handle on it.You're probably thinking, "thank God for that".I am pretty sure that there would have been room for both of us.When I was young and ....well...I spent a 4th of July weekend in the hardrock hotel in Castle Rock.The, they would take us "jailbirds" across the street to the diner (I ate there again when I visited) twice a day.The town felt like Mayberry then.I guess Castle Rock became a bedroom community for Denver's wealthier.I haven't checked since the market fell but homes were on the same pricing tier as Southern Cal coastal communities.I suspect if you are still there, you probably have nice rides up the 24 and to Cripple Creek and down to Canon City, amongst so many other beautiful rides.I felt comfortable there becasue of my military but couldn't convince the wife.If you're still there, hope it doesn't change to become what you ran away from in California.Huge Evangelical community so I assume that fits you very well.
Stay safe Fstsix and watch out for those snow storms that come from God knows where in a New York minute.

I live in Rhode Island now, i was in the Springs back in 92-94 only 2 years, I relocated with 3 family's in 02, they are still there, Woodland park now few miles up the mountain, they have horses, I bought some property in Briergate the north end of Academy blvd by Vickers street, Did a lot a work in Castle rock, and a lot of mountain biking in Garden of the Gods, My favorite place was Blackforest before Castle Rock. ya know speaking of storms, from what i have been told more people have been struck by lightning on the Golf coarse there than any other place, the storms where violent and would come from nowhere, i did see temp's very from sunny to snow in may before, Also if ya all get up to 11 mile reservoir lake up  hwy 24 look for a picture of the State record Ice fishing winners in 1994 in Dave's bait shop 2 long haired boy's holding all fingers full of trout with a big smile LOL, Had some great times there and still look at my friends and their property on my wife's facebook, Also when i first moved there i rented a house temporary off Nevada st, Washington st in the old town, it was like Mayberry and i did get in some races on Nevada st with a stop light every block it was always a race to the next Red light LOL!  I do miss all my family in So Cal, i still have a rental property in Cypress, my family helps  me with with the tenants., The problem is i have been in New England for 16 years, i left once went down South for a few years but came back up i really feel at home here like i have never felt anywhere else. Speaking of great riding i am a couple hundred miles from Americade Lake George NY some of the most beautiful roads in the country i will be going that way in a couple of weeks if can Silence my bike down a little just got some Samson baffles today for the Viking pipes and need to put more rap around them trying to find some Stainless steel wool may have to order off the Net, bike is getting too loud for the 10 hr days, maybe just like everybody just getting old LOL . Ride safe.