When using rear tire on front backward explained

[Warlock]

There was talk about this so I found out why. Explained here.
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2009/08/23/tires-directional-arrows-explained-by-avon-tyres/
David

[Sodbuster]

makes sense to me ....

[X Ring]

For some reason I keep hearing my voice echo from previous threads about this.   

Marty

[Warlock]

For some reason I keep hearing my voice echo from previous threads about this.   

Marty

Decided to post this to backup what you posted was true.
David

[X Ring]

Thanks David.   

Marty

[Red Diamond]

Good Info.

[Rio Wil]

Ya Know......I am beginning to think this almost qualifies for 'urban myth' status. By that I mean, it makes logical sense that a lap joint could un-peel if enough backward torque was applied for a sufficient length of time or sufficient number of times.  And if you ask a engineer you will get a engineering logical answer because of the nature of it just should "work that way".

But I ask this:

Has anyone ever seen a lap joint?
Has anyone ever seen a lap joint that was peeling?
Has anyone ever seen a lap joint that failed in ANY way?
Has anyone ever seen a lap joint fail on ANY tire....car or motorcycle.

I think that once the joint is vulcanized, it really  for all practical purposes ceases to be a joint and is a un-distinguishable part of the tire, ie, the tread, joint and plies are "as one".  (that sounds a bit Yodi-ish)

It is common to see tire alligator all over the roads, what failed, was it a joint or tread releasing from the plies/cords because of incomplete vulcanizing???

The reason I am beating this "dead horse", this just sounds like one of those things that "makes sense", but has no basis in real life or practicality.

Based on this, I'm gonna run my rear tire with the arrow....that's my story and I'm sticking to it....and if I could figure out why inserting a smiley face is not working for me, I would add one of them little critters!   

[Warlock]

Ya Know......I am beginning to think this almost qualifies for 'urban myth' status. By that I mean, it makes logical sense that a lap joint could un-peel if enough backward torque was applied for a sufficient length of time or sufficient number of times.  And if you ask a engineer you will get a engineering logical answer because of the nature of it just should "work that way".

But I ask this:

Has anyone ever seen a lap joint?
Has anyone ever seen a lap joint that was peeling?
Has anyone ever seen a lap joint that failed in ANY way?
Has anyone ever seen a lap joint fail on ANY tire....car or motorcycle.

I think that once the joint is vulcanized, it really  for all practical purposes ceases to be a joint and is a un-distinguishable part of the tire, ie, the tread, joint and plies are "as one".  (that sounds a bit Yodi-ish)

It is common to see tire alligator all over the roads, what failed, was it a joint or tread releasing from the plies/cords because of incomplete vulcanizing???

The reason I am beating this "dead horse", this just sounds like one of those things that "makes sense", but has no basis in real life or practicality.

Based on this, I'm gonna run my rear tire with the arrow....that's my story and I'm sticking to it....and if I could figure out why inserting a smiley face is not working for me, I would add one of them little critters!    

It's not a urban myth but fact from Avon. Now with that said I can't disagree with you. I think all the tire alligators on the road are from the re-threading of truck tires. I really want to mount mine with the arrow facing forward. I have time to think about it. I know that most braking is on the front, but think if I get on the front brake hard enough to unlease this belt I would think I'm in deep do-do already. I like the ideal of the water moving out and not in. I think Mark-T runs his this way also. Maybe he can chime in and let of know if he has had problems and maybe he has applied heavy braking and the tire was ok. Also what about the tires that doesn't have any directional arrows.  
David

[Rio Wil]

It's not a urban myth but fact from Avon.

I guess what I am looking for is some facts.......it seems like what we have so far, even from the Avon engineers, that its a logical foregone common sense  'opinion'.  So far, if there are any 'facts' about any issue with a lap joint  failure due to being run in reverse direction.....where are they, where is the proof?

Like you, I want to take advantage of the water dispersion capability  of properly facing grooves.  I will be spending the month of July in western Canada and Alaska and I hear it rains a bit there.....)

[Rio Wil]

Hey look what I found at Jake Wilson: check out the third asterisk.......NO JOINTS!!  Look at the sizes.....no 150-80 but they have a 140-80 that will keep the speedo m ore accurate......and......  my smiley faces are  working....thanks Willow



    * Dunlop D607 motorcycle tire tread pattern features wide, stable central blocks with large grooves for superb water drainage, and small grooves for optimal motorcycle tire wear.
    * Single-radius Dunlop motorcycle tire design maintains a consistent footprint at different lean angles for improved feel and progressive steering response.
    * The rear motorcycle tire combines Jointless Band construction with Dunlop motorcycle tire Carcass Tension Control System for enhanced cornering and wear performance, excellent high-speed stability and exceptional motorcycle tire compliance.
      Size: Speed Rating: Load Rating:
      120/90-18 T (118 mph) 65 (639 lbs)
      130/80R17 H (130 mph) 65 (639 lbs)
      140/80R17 H (130 mph) 69 (716 lbs)
      150/70HR17 H (130 mph) 69 (716 lbs)
      150/70VR17 V (149 mph) 69 (716 lbs)

[Willow]

   my smiley faces are  working....thanks Willow

 

[Warlock]

Hey look what I found at Jake Wilson: check out the third asterisk.......NO JOINTS!!  Look at the sizes.....no 150-80 but they have a 140-80 that will keep the speedo m ore accurate......and......  my smiley faces are  working....thanks Willow



    * Dunlop D607 motorcycle tire tread pattern features wide, stable central blocks with large grooves for superb water drainage, and small grooves for optimal motorcycle tire wear.
    * Single-radius Dunlop motorcycle tire design maintains a consistent footprint at different lean angles for improved feel and progressive steering response.
    * The rear motorcycle tire combines Jointless Band construction with Dunlop motorcycle tire Carcass Tension Control System for enhanced cornering and wear performance, excellent high-speed stability and exceptional motorcycle tire compliance.
      Size: Speed Rating: Load Rating:
      120/90-18 T (118 mph) 65 (639 lbs)
      130/80R17 H (130 mph) 65 (639 lbs)
      140/80R17 H (130 mph) 69 (716 lbs)
      150/70HR17 H (130 mph) 69 (716 lbs)
      150/70VR17 V (149 mph) 69 (716 lbs)

Good looking tire, but will still make the speedo read fast. 140/80/17 which is 80% height which puts at 25.83. Stock is 26.50. Will make the speedo read fast. But if it works who cares if you like the tire.
David

[Rio Wil]

Ah rats,..... I was also reading a bit about that tire and it seems to have a bad reputation for some reason in terms of cornering...

 

[Warlock]

Ah rats,..... I was also reading a bit about that tire and it seems to have a bad reputation for some reason in terms of cornering...

 

My tires are suppose to be here Tuesday. Still trying to make my mine up on mounting. Which tire are you running at present?
David

[Rio Wil]

Currently the front is a Metz 880 and the rear is a Falken 512.  Happy with the combination, the Falken has lasted for the equal of 3 rear m/c tires and if I can settle on a rear tire to mount up front, I should be good for maybe 20K on the front. I do intend to mount the front/rear tire with the rotation arrow for the advantage of better water control.

[X Ring]

Just so you know, Avon isn't the only company that says to run the rear tire backward when used as a front.  Metzler has that in its Tech notes. 

Like you, I want to take advantage of the water dispersion capability  of properly facing grooves.  I will be spending the month of July in western Canada and Alaska and I hear it rains a bit there.....)

Rio funny you should bring that up.  Here's a pic of the Metzler on the front of my 1100 ACE Tourer



And this is a pic of the rear Metzler.



As you can plainly see, the treads run opposite directions.  So if you're basing running a rear tire on the front so the tread does its job of water removal, then you'll need to run it backwards for that reason also.

Marty

[Rio Wil]

Marty.....I hate to  tell you this, but someone mounted one of your tires backwards AND it was probably the same person that stole one of your front fork tubes!!!! ??? ??? ???

Is the pic of the back tire taken from the rear of the bike or from underneath looking backward?  If I had another scotch I could probably decide that on my own....or is it maybe I had already had one too many....

I did find a Pirelli 150-70-17 Scorpion today that had pretty good looking tread pattern, they had a E3 in 150-80 I could compare it to side by side.  WOW,  the E3 is a much wider tire as well as half a inch taller , but the Pirelli had nice deep grooves.  I have not ever heard of anyone running a Scorpion so I don't know about longevity....



  

[X Ring]

Marty.....I hate to  tell you this, but someone mounted one of your tires backwards AND it was probably the same person that stole one of your front fork tubes!!!! ??? ??? ???

Is the pic of the back tire taken from the rear of the bike or from underneath looking backward?  If I had another scotch I could probably decide that on my own....or is it maybe I had already had one too many....

Both pics are looking toward the back of the bike.  Afa the front tire shot, that's an experimental mono fork.   

Marty

[Rio Wil]

experimental as from the factory or is it your creation. so.....is the fork tube square/oval/round with splines? that just looks un-nerving....

[X Ring]

It's really just the angle of the shot.  I wasn't exactly dead on and the camera was close to the tire
but it looks cool.   

Marty

[vanagon40]

I apologize in advance for beating this dead horse, but the guy I work for had a new Harley Road King Classic (about 2007) and the tread on the front tire was the opposite direction from the tread on the rear.  The tread on the front of his Road King also matched the tread direction of my front tire (a rear bias mounted backwards).

The original Valkyrie Dunlops were mounted with the tread pattern in front running the reverse direction of the rear tread pattern.

I am not convinced that mounting a rear tire on the front to run in the same direction as it would on the rear is the appropriate way to insure proper water dispersion.

[Rio Wil]

Marty....ya had me going, that is really an optical contusion...

Vanagon40....That is kinda interesting......are you saying that the two tires that turn the same direction have different water dispersion needs or characteristics.
So, what is the most effective method of water management, squirting it straight out to the sides, or forward and out to the side or rearward and out to the sides by the placement/direction of the grooves.

BTW....what make and size rear tire are you running on the front?

[X Ring]

Marty....ya had me going, that is really an optical contusion...

What!!!  You bruised your eyes???   

Marty

[vanagon40]

Rio Wil,

I’m not making any claim about water dispersion or any claim that I even have a clue about water dispersion.  But, it seems to me that the design engineers for either the motorcycle or the motorcycle tire have a reason for different tread patterns on the front and back.

It appears to me that it is very commonplace for the tread pattern for a front tire to be the opposite of the tread pattern for a rear tire.  Whether that is due to acceleration traction, breaking traction, water dispersion, or tread splice, I do not know.

If you think of the tread pattern as an arrow, the arrow is pointing up on the front tire when looking at the bike from the front, and the arrow is pointing up when looking at the rear tire from the rear.  Whether water dispersion is different for the front and back, or water dispersion is less important for the front, or something else, I don’t know.

I guess that only point I’m trying to make is that when someone says: “Gee, I’m not worried about the tread splice, I just want to make sure the tread is running in the ‘right’ direction . . . ,” I’m not sure the “right” direction is the same for the front and rear.

(FWIW, the “arrow” on a tractor tire also points up when viewed from the rear.)