melted ignition switch plug

[tivoklr]

I have a 97 valk which has been modified somewhat electrically (controls are aftermarket hd, tails, etc. nothing "core" modified though) and I was left stranded yesterday after stopping for fuel.

I was sorta lucky in the fact that I had my car and trailer in town, (I had hauled all 3 to Denver to leave the car/trailer to be worked on) so I was able to tow my bike 100 miles back home to figure this out.

Symptoms.
1. Absolutely no power to anything, lights, horn, gauges, etc. with key on and "run/off" switch on.
2. Battery good. Tested here at home.
3. Discovered today that starter relay plug is melted and the wire with the melted connector has melted jacket.
4. Starter will turn if connection jumped at starter relay with key on and "run/off" switch on or off. Won't run though.
5. Fuses look good.
6. Big fusable link looks good.
7. Shorted "run/off" switch. No change.

Now here is a weird part. Yesterday, after it didn't run, I let it sit, turned the key, and everything came on. I started it, and it ran for 5 seconds then all power off. It sat dead for a couple of hours and I loaded it on the trailer and brought it home. Last night, turned key, nothing. This morning, I go out, try key, POWER to everything. Tried starter and it turned over.

I tried it again 5 min later and I'm back to dead.

My next thought is where can I jump the "off/run" circuit nearest the battery/fusebox? Is there a way to bypass the starter relay and see if it'll allow power to the rest of the bike?

I am at your mercy.

[tivoklr]

I have power at the fusebox.

[Valkpilot]

You need to repair the starter relay plug, but the symptoms you're describing are often the result of a bad battery.  On the bench it will show adequate charge, but the starter load will immediately pull it to nothing.

[MP]

#1 and #2.  New battery, check and clean the starter relay.

Then, see if you still have a problem.  As above, probably not.

MP

[Michvalk]

Clean battery connections at both ends. Pay special attention to the ground where it attaches to the block. Loose or corroded connections will do this.

[tivoklr]

Checked starter relay and wiring per page 18-16 of the 97 gl1500 manual. All checked out good.
Checked ground strap, beautiful.
Disconnected Valk batt, used f250 battery/charging system, no love.
Got pissed off and started pulling on wires in the bundle of connectors between the battery box and the panel with the lock for the seat. Power returns. Fired bike up, runs fine.

I guess I will unplug/clean/replug/seal with dielectric grease and see what happens. Maybe while I'm in there I'll see something definitive that needs fixing. I don't like quirky/shorty crap...

Thoughts on which connector under there is the culprit? Remember, this is a complete power loss, usually if I have the kill switch set to "off" I still have the orange marker lights and tails, but not in this case.

[roboto65]

Thoughts on which connector under there is the culprit? Remember, this is a complete power loss, usually if I have the kill switch set to "off" I still have the orange marker lights and tails, but not in this case.

YEP this

Discovered today that starter relay plug is melted and the wire with the melted connector has melted jacket

[tivoklr]

OK, the starter relay plug is melted, but so is the plug that connects the ignition key switch to the harness. It's melted badly, and was so bad I couldn't get the connector apart without some "lovin"

I would post pics but I've gotta put everything back together. One positive is it mimics my symptoms exactly, no power to my marker lights or tails, and no power to these driving lights that always turn on with the key.

Seems like there's an awful lot of melting going on in one circuit here. What gives?

[John Schmidt]

Did you run the wire bundle inside the handlebars? I did on mine and the right side switch box pinched some wires where the top half of the switch box pressed them against the bar. Needless to say, I had a few shorting headaches after a while. I ended up cutting a piece out of the handlebar right above the hole where the cable bundle enters the bar. Now, lots of room and no pinching/shorting.

RJ has a reference to a subsitute for the start relay connector. I thought I had saved it but can't find it. Probably have it, just don't remember what I called it.

[Blackduck]

Do you have any aftermarket load on the electrics? IE: driving lights?
If you have extra load that is not relayed directly off the battery you could be overloading the original wiring.
Bad ground connections can do the same as the current tries to go to ground.
Have you ever seen trailer wiring with a ground fault where the side lights or turn signals go out when the brakes are applied? Thats the current using the other circuits to go to ground.
Cheers Steve

[tivoklr]

The original owner/builder did run driving lights, and they do turn on when the key is turned on, so maybe they are the culprit.

I am not running them now, and haven't for a year or more, so I can replace the connector at the relay with the gl wiring kit I've seen online and I wonder what I will be able to use to replace these:







The last image is of the connector to the wire loom, the ignition switch images look melty but the connector and wire look ok.

Makes sense too much current running through this circuit, maybe I fix both of these and track down the driving lights remove it from this circuit and add a relay.

I wonder if there are other connectors in this circuit?

Can I be so lucky?

[John Schmidt]

Look up Vintage Connections in California. He carries all of them that have been used on metrics since the mid-60's....bullet connectors, plus small pin and large pin square connectors such as in your pictures. Anything from 2 pins to 9 pins.

As for the driving lights, that's not a good idea to have them come on with the key. You need to rewire them totally separate from the headlight circuit and run off a switch that activates a relay, power them through the relay.

[John U.]

If the starter relay is fried, you can get a used replacement from Pinwall.
The same relay is used on a number of Hondas.

[R J]

This is the kit from an older GL that will work on the one 1/2 of your connection,
Fromm the looks of the other side, order one from the suggestion up above.

Hell for that matter order both ends from the guy in California.

If he doesn't have the one, here is that replacement I referred to..

PS:  it also has a bigger rubber boot.

You have to move the main power wire in the connector to match the Valk.




This one does not have the attached fuse plug...



This package replaces this unit...   I fried mine cause I let my grandson wire my driving lights and he did not use a relay.

He learned later in school and forgot to tell me he never used the relay.
Wanted to kick his you know what.     BUT, he learned to ask questions now.



I would say if the above 1/2 a plug on your bike is replaced with both ends here, your problem will be over.

[tivoklr]

Thanks for the info on the connector guy. I needed that.

I didn't build the bike, but I get to fix the bike. Hooray! Thankfully there are solid resources like this board to get good information.

I'll have to try to source both parts from him as I don't want to wait 10 days for that little wiring kit from Honda. You'd think they make each part as ordered...

Here's the end product, when it runs...



Now I've added my own personal touches, scratches on the saddlebags from dropping it off a trailer, etc... but I still love it.

[tivoklr]

I've decided to forgo replacing the melted 4 pin connector at the ignition switch with Posi-Lock Connectors. I'm going to fix the connector at the starter relay with the gl parts. The relay isn't melted, and still works.

Now it needs to stop snowing...

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

It might be worth your while to pull the fuse in the top of the relay (hope I'm remembering right?) and check it. Mine had corroded where the fuse blades push into the holder. Just the increased resistance of corroded connectors can cause the heating and melting you ran into. That doesn’t mean there isn’t another problem but the corrosion alone could have caused it all. Thanks for keeping us posted on your progress. As you get to the bottom of it we all learn from it.

[tivoklr]

I decided to only repair the ignition circuit wire that had melted in the 4 prong connector shown in the images above with a posi-lock, and added some liquid electrical tape on each end to seal it up.



Then a tape job on both the posi-lock and the original connector with the 3 remaining original wires to keep moisture out.



I was able to consistently reproduce the failure prior to completing the repair by squeezing and releasing pressure on the melted connector.

I checked the 30amp fuse on the relay and there was no corrosion. I cleaned it anyway with some contact cleaner, cleaned the pins on the slightly melted pink connector, and buttoned it back up. I'll be ordering the gl kit to fix this too, but it's not as bad as shown in R J's images.

Additionally, I removed the driving lights from the ignition circuit and ran a new wire back to the battery box (disconnected for now, will wire relay when I do the gl connector) from the weird switch that controls them (it is some sort of controller for the momentary switch that operates the driving lights).

Over the past 3 years, the bike would occasionally "blip" off then right back on as if someone had reached down and turned off the key, usually at 70mph on the freeway, and it seems as if this melted connection was the likely culprit. Fingers crossed...

[tivoklr]

250 miles and several passes later, including the one below, I'm feeling good about the fix at the ignition switch connector.

Will order gl part in a week along with some brake piston seals for my dragging caliper.