Valkyrie Riders Cruiser Club
June 27, 2025, 12:49:01 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Ultimate Seats Link VRCC Store
Homepage : Photostash : JustPics : Shoptalk : Old Tech Archive : Classifieds : Contact Staff
News: If you're new to this message board, read THIS!
 
MarkT Exhaust
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: vote against this  (Read 3013 times)
98valk
Member
*****
Posts: 13464


South Jersey


« on: June 17, 2010, 05:26:23 AM »



http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-bill-gives-obama-kill-switch-to-shut-down-the-internet.html

they want the same censorship power like china has
Logged

1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C  10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp

"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
Chrisj CMA
Member
*****
Posts: 14769


Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 05:39:27 AM »

VOTE against this....against the pandering gun registration bill that witch Clinton is comitting us to and IMPEACH OBAMA fire Pelosi, Ried and all obamas Czars....get rid of anyone willing to do government business that is not in accordance with the United States Constitution.  Fire any government official that is anti military, pro illegal immigration or pro borrowing yet more $$ from China or whoever to bail anyone out from anything period.  Stop rediculous tax increases like the energy taxes obama is proposing at a time that he has unecessarily frozen gulf oil production.  ITS INSANE!

NOVEMBER things need to change.  IMPEACH OBAMA NOW
Logged
PAVALKER
Member
*****
Posts: 4435


Retired Navy 22YOS, 2014 Valkyrie , VRCC# 27213

Pittsburgh, Pa


« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 06:39:30 AM »

Oh yea... vote against this for sure.   If Al Gore wanted the president to have control over the internet when he invented it, he would have  created it that way....     Grin

Besides, Obama doesn't even have a censor switch for Biden yet.....     Wink
Logged

John                           
Bobbo
Member
*****
Posts: 2002

Saint Charles, MO


« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 07:17:58 AM »

The Internet, as it’s known today, was started long ago in the late 60’s by DARPA, a military research arm of the government.  The goal was to link military and educational computers over a common network for national defense and computer advancement.  The World Wide Web, which is an upper layer on the Internet came much later and was mostly for commercial use.
This bill appears to be designed to give specific power to the President to limit commercial use of the Internet in times of military emergency, such as a cyber attack.  This is no different than the power the President already has over the phone network, GPS system, and the interstate highway system, which can be shut down for exclusive government use as well.  Remember Bush’s grounding of all non-government flights after 9/11?  Same thing.
I’m guessing the same people that are screaming about defeating this bill would be the same people blaming the President for not protecting us during a major cyber attack!

Logged
Mickey Runie
Guest
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 08:45:09 AM »

I gotta tell ya, bobo, speaking for myself, I'd be much more worried about a plane landing on my head than a haji popping out of my computer to kill me.   So yeah.  I think the grounding of planes was a better move than the planning of shutting off my access to this forum in the event of haji wanting to invade my i-net line.

Just saying.
Logged
bm51
Member
*****
Posts: 16


« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 09:10:52 AM »

   VOTE against this....against the pandering gun registration bill that witch Clinton is comitting us to and IMPEACH OBAMA fire Pelosi, Ried and all obamas Czars....get rid of anyone willing to do government business that is not in accordance with the United States Constitution.  Fire any government official that is anti military, pro illegal immigration or pro borrowing yet more $$ from China or whoever to bail anyone out from anything period.  Stop rediculous tax increases like the energy taxes obama is proposing at a time that he has unecessarily frozen gulf oil production.  ITS INSANE!

NOVEMBER things need to change.  IMPEACH OBAMA NOW


Yea what he says.

We need to take back control of this goverment and get rid of career politicians both sides of the aisle. That is not what the founders of the constitution intended in the begining. Spend you time in service to your Country then get abck and live under the laws you passed.
Logged
Walküre
Member
*****
Posts: 1270


Nothing beats a 6-pack!

Oxford, Indiana


« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 10:29:59 AM »

I gotta tell ya, bobo, speaking for myself, I'd be much more worried about a plane landing on my head than a haji popping out of my computer to kill me.   So yeah.  I think the grounding of planes was a better move than the planning of shutting off my access to this forum in the event of haji wanting to invade my i-net line.

Just saying.
EXACTLY what the design of this bill is for - keeping the plane from dropping on your head! Cyber attacks might be such things as crippling the air traffic controllers communications - imagine that plane falling out of the sky. Or, crippling the power grid throughout the country. Or crippling all satellite communications. The list goes on and on. Just because it hasn't been done, or on a large scale (hackers HAVE hurt the grid), doesn't mean it can't, or won't be done. Gut reaction says that this president is taking your freedoms away. People need to get over that. It just aint true. And believing it, DON'T make it true, either. When Obama DIDN'T take over the oil leak, people complained. When he DID try to make things right, the same people complained. Of course, there's a lot that would bitch if their ice cream was cold...

Read the bill...

R
Logged

2000 Valkyrie Standard
1999 Valkyrie Interstate
2000 HD Dyna Wide Glide FXDWG

Roger Phillips
Oxford, IN
VRCC #31978

Yeah, what she said...
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2010, 10:45:03 AM »

VOTE against this....against the pandering gun registration bill that witch Clinton is comitting us to and IMPEACH OBAMA fire Pelosi, Ried and all obamas Czars....get rid of anyone willing to do government business that is not in accordance with the United States Constitution.  Fire any government official that is anti military, pro illegal immigration or pro borrowing yet more $$ from China or whoever to bail anyone out from anything period.  Stop rediculous tax increases like the energy taxes obama is proposing at a time that he has unecessarily frozen gulf oil production.  ITS INSANE!

NOVEMBER things need to change.  IMPEACH OBAMA NOW

lol...Fire anyone who wants to borrow another $ ......soooo, you want the USA to default on it's bonds...great strategy there...the repubs put us under a mountain of debt and maxed out the credit cards - we're over limit.  Consequently, we HAVE to borrow the money. Impeach him!  lmao

And man, remember they wanna take our fishing poles away too!!!  Better stock up on fishing poles. 
Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
Big Rig
Member
*****
Posts: 2507


Woolwich NJ


« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2010, 11:00:26 AM »

VOTE against this....against the pandering gun registration bill that witch Clinton is comitting us to and IMPEACH OBAMA fire Pelosi, Ried and all obamas Czars....get rid of anyone willing to do government business that is not in accordance with the United States Constitution.  Fire any government official that is anti military, pro illegal immigration or pro borrowing yet more $$ from China or whoever to bail anyone out from anything period.  Stop rediculous tax increases like the energy taxes obama is proposing at a time that he has unecessarily frozen gulf oil production.  ITS INSANE!

NOVEMBER things need to change.  IMPEACH OBAMA NOW

lol...Fire anyone who wants to borrow another $ ......soooo, you want the USA to default on it's bonds...great strategy there...the repubs put us under a mountain of debt and maxed out the credit cards - we're over limit.  Consequently, we HAVE to borrow the money. Impeach him!  lmao

And man, remember they wanna take our fishing poles away too!!!  Better stock up on fishing poles. 

They sure are not planning on taking them away, but they are planning on taxing the use of them...do you fish??

check out the National Saltwater Angler Registry...this year it is free...next year it will be a national tax (fee I am sorry) on top of the state tax (I mean fee again) to fish...at to that any state that stocks fish charges a tax (fee) for those fish that you MIGHT catch...

Keep blaming Bush...that is it, we all buy it...
Logged
big turkey
Guest
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2010, 11:14:52 AM »

November , November, is what I'm waiting for.

Oh what a day that will be .

When Pelosi is no longer taking care of you and me.

Oh Happy Day when My Lord I see.

When Harry Reed will no longer be taking care of you and me.

Thank You Jesus more and more.

Guide our leaders to thy Celestial Shore.

And bring us hope anew.

Big Al
Logged
Mickey Runie
Guest
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2010, 12:17:03 PM »

I gotta tell ya, bobo, speaking for myself, I'd be much more worried about a plane landing on my head than a haji popping out of my computer to kill me.   So yeah.  I think the grounding of planes was a better move than the planning of shutting off my access to this forum in the event of haji wanting to invade my i-net line.

Just saying.
EXACTLY what the design of this bill is for - keeping the plane from dropping on your head! Cyber attacks might be such things as crippling the air traffic controllers communications - imagine that plane falling out of the sky. Or, crippling the power grid throughout the country. Or crippling all satellite communications. The list goes on and on. Just because it hasn't been done, or on a large scale (hackers HAVE hurt the grid), doesn't mean it can't, or won't be done. Gut reaction says that this president is taking your freedoms away. People need to get over that. It just aint true. And believing it, DON'T make it true, either. When Obama DIDN'T take over the oil leak, people complained. When he DID try to make things right, the same people complained. Of course, there's a lot that would bitch if their ice cream was cold...

Read the bill...

R

So, what you're saying is that those planes are being flown by.......the i-net? 

Those BASTIDS!!

Lord help me if those cyber criminals ever shut the power off permanently.   I gots ta have my icecream freezing cold, and can't do it without the darn power.

Why heck, Obama, you can have all my freedoms.   Please, just keep my icecream cold.
Logged
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2010, 12:49:20 PM »

Doody, you must have missed the fishing crisis! The usual suspects here were firing on all cylinders for several days about how Obama was going to outlaw fishing! It was hilarious!

And yes, why would you not blame the people who put us in this position? Bush and his cronies absolutely crippled our country with their policies - cut taxes on the rich (his base) and then sell our country to the Chinese and Japan thru borrowing without regard to the budget??  And then you whine when Obama comes into office and doesn't miraculously make it all better for you?

You need to get a grip on reality a bit.  Two wars fought on borrowed money (but kept off budget)? Bush and the repubs...The bank bailouts? Bush ...the auto company "bailouts"? Bush ...  Bridges to nowhere? Bush ...  The deepest recession in US history? Bush....Putting the world on the verge of a global financial collapse? Bush ...doubling our national debt during his term? Bush 

Who has to pay the bills + interest - we all do.  And you want to blame Obama?? lmao
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 12:59:26 PM by Scanner » Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
Big Rig
Member
*****
Posts: 2507


Woolwich NJ


« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2010, 01:22:24 PM »

When all this went down, who was running the house and senate? Hmmm??

I must still be miss informed...as for the wars...your boy Clinton F'd that all up before it even happened...I would imagine if those planes flew into Seattle, you would not have approved of this situation either...I say leave no stone unturned...let god sort it out.

I would like your thoughts on the LEO in Seattle that punched that girl...do you think it was justified?





Logged
Chrisj CMA
Member
*****
Posts: 14769


Crestview (Panhandle) Florida


« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2010, 01:37:56 PM »

You cant argue with the Koolaid drinkers.  I made a statement based on my opinion, observations and personal feelings and I stand by it!.  Yes there was debt before "president" obama got in. ( thats a whole other story ) He doubled down on it and made it far worse.  His administration is more corrupt than we could ever have guessed even knowing he was comming from Chicago.  He has done a handful of things that if Bush did them they would have been talking impeachment.  This Crew in Washington is criminal, immoral, unethical and unAmerican besides being inept and unprofessional at all they do.  They need to go
Logged
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2010, 01:38:21 PM »

When all this went down, who was running the house and senate? Hmmm??

I must still be miss informed...as for the wars...your boy Clinton F'd that all up before it even happened...I would imagine if those planes flew into Seattle, you would not have approved of this situation either...I say leave no stone unturned...let god sort it out.

I would like your thoughts on the LEO in Seattle that punched that girl...do you think it was justified?


Uh, the repubs had total control from the start of Bushes term till 2006.  We invaded Iraq in '93.   If the planes hit Seattle I would not have invaded and occupied a country that had nothing to do with it just because we could, and it was easier than actually going after those behind 9/11.  After all, 15 of the nineteen were Saudi, and Bush might not get to hold hands with the sheik as they strolled the gardens if we did that.

As for the punch by the LEO, I believe he was in the right.  
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 04:17:43 PM by Scanner » Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2010, 01:44:39 PM »

You cant argue with the Koolaid drinkers.  I made a statement based on my opinion, observations and personal feelings and I stand by it!.  Yes there was debt before "president" obama got in. ( thats a whole other story ) He doubled down on it and made it far worse.  His administration is more corrupt than we could ever have guessed even knowing he was comming from Chicago.  He has done a handful of things that if Bush did them they would have been talking impeachment.  This Crew in Washington is criminal, immoral, unethical and unAmerican besides being inept and unprofessional at all they do.  They need to go

He doubled down on it? hmmm, since he's only had one budget in office, can you name 3 things he spent all that money on that "doubled down" on our debt?  You might wanna look for some facts here...

And by the way, can you name one thing Obama has done that is impeachable - out of "the handful of things that if Bush did them they would have been talking impeachment".  

Me thinks you listen to too much talk radio Chris.....
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 01:46:17 PM by Scanner » Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
fstsix
Guest
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2010, 01:57:26 PM »

Ohboy...oh boy........................I wonder what is in this link Hummmm...http://www.heritage.org/Multimedia/Video/2010/06/Riedl-FNC-6-4-10
Logged
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2010, 02:09:02 PM »

Well I can't tell ya since it won't run on my PC, but I can guess considering the sources. 2funny

Try this one:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

You'll see that when bush and the repubs came in office the debt was 56.4 % of GDP

After they were done it was 83.4 % of GDP

This one is national debt by year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
Notice that in '81 when Reagan came in the debt began a huge spike that continues. Much of that is interest on the debt they incurred.

Gee, maybe cutting taxes and then spending like money was going out of style isn't the solution to every problem we face?

Try this one too..http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushabdullahhands.htm
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 02:16:06 PM by Scanner » Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
Sludge
Member
*****
Posts: 793


Toilet Attendant

Roaring River, NC


« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2010, 02:17:30 PM »

Wow, I can agree with Scanner on something.  We both agree the cop was in the right.

Now as for the debt.  I hate the Bush debt as much as anyone but ya need to keep everything in perspective.  Here is a nice little history lesson of the debt and where its going.

The National Debt Road Trippowered by Aeva
Logged

"We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?"
Gen. John W. Vessey, USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the assault on Granada
fstsix
Guest
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2010, 02:23:41 PM »

Well I can't tell ya since it won't run on my PC, but I can guess considering the sources. 2funny

Try this one:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

You'll see that when bush and the repubs came in office the debt was 56.4 % of GDP

After they were done it was 83.4 % of GDP

This one is national debt by year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
Notice that in '81 when Reagan came in the debt began a huge spike that continues. Much of that is interest on the debt they incurred.

Gee, maybe cutting taxes and then spending like money was going out of style isn't the solution to every problem we face?

Try this one too..http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushabdullahhands.htm

Sorry step daddy ......I guess i have do a CNN again like i always do LOL!!! got a block on your PC eh...LOL! 2funny Yeah Right !
Logged
junior
Member
*****
Posts: 1427


new hampshire


« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2010, 03:31:36 PM »

VOTE against this....against the pandering gun registration bill that witch Clinton is comitting us to and IMPEACH OBAMA fire Pelosi, Ried and all obamas Czars....get rid of anyone willing to do government business that is not in accordance with the United States Constitution.  Fire any government official that is anti military, pro illegal immigration or pro borrowing yet more $$ from China or whoever to bail anyone out from anything period.  Stop rediculous tax increases like the energy taxes obama is proposing at a time that he has unecessarily frozen gulf oil production.  ITS INSANE!

NOVEMBER things need to change.  IMPEACH OBAMA NOW

you my friend are now on the no fly list.....................and dam you cant even buy a water pistol  2funny
Logged

stormrider
Member
*****
Posts: 1147


Kinsey, AL


« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2010, 03:53:29 PM »

VOTE against this....against the pandering gun registration bill that witch Clinton is comitting us to and IMPEACH OBAMA fire Pelosi, Ried and all obamas Czars....get rid of anyone willing to do government business that is not in accordance with the United States Constitution.  Fire any government official that is anti military, pro illegal immigration or pro borrowing yet more $$ from China or whoever to bail anyone out from anything period.  Stop rediculous tax increases like the energy taxes obama is proposing at a time that he has unecessarily frozen gulf oil production.  ITS INSANE!

NOVEMBER things need to change.  IMPEACH OBAMA NOW



lol...Fire anyone who wants to borrow another $ ......soooo, you want the USA to default on it's bonds...great strategy there...the repubs put us under a mountain of debt and maxed out the credit cards - we're over limit.  Consequently, we HAVE to borrow the money. Impeach him!  lmao

And man, remember they wanna take our fishing poles away too!!!  Better stock up on fishing poles. 

Yep, fire em all. And so what if our government defaults? Tell me Scanner, what will happen if they default?
Logged

Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2010, 04:31:33 PM »

Sludge, sorry, cause I know you like to throw this around all the time, but it's completely bogus.  Start with Bushes contribution to the debt. Your cartoon says he added 2,989 billion to the debt. That's actually close to half the damage he and the repubs did.  Bush added 4.97 Trillion to the debt. And the added cost of his Iraq adventure will end up being a couple more trillion in GI benefits and healthcare when the bill comes in.

Nice cartoon though.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 04:33:49 PM by Scanner » Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2010, 04:51:55 PM »

"Tell me Scanner, what will happen if they default?" Well Stormrider, you're gonna really need that fishing pole to eat if that happens.  Basically, the world economy collapses.  If the nations who own us, primarily Asian, call in their debt and we default...no international trade,  super-high interest rates and raging inflation everywhere.  Maybe we give them more of our physical assets - land, harbors, weapons...I mean more than we already are. Anybody's guess...
Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
fstsix
Guest
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2010, 05:24:02 PM »

2011 may be something your on to Step daddy...Better cash in those profits on your stock , Like the Airlines are doing, knowing whats coming down the pike  Wink...............................................................................
Are the Bush Tax Cuts Working?

President Bush has signed into law three tax bills in the past three years; these tax cuts amounted to $1.3 trillion in 2001, $96 billion in 2002, and $330 billion in 2003. Democratic opponents criticized the tax cuts (particularly the first one in 2001) as fiscally irresponsible and weighted primarily toward the wealthy, while Republican supporters claimed that the tax cuts would stimulate economic growth and return money to taxpayers across the board.
Major Provisions of the Tax Cuts

The 2001 Economic Growth and Recovery Tax Act, by far the largest of the three tax cuts, was intended to provide tax relief to individuals, families and businesses, thereby stimulating economic growth enough to recover from the recession (which ended in November 2001). Some provisions of that bill include the following:1

    * Rebate checks were sent to taxpayers in the amount of $300 per individual and $600 per married couple.
    * Personal income tax rates dropped from 39.6, 36, 31, and 28 percent to 35, 33, 28, and 25 percent, respectively.
    * The child tax credit increased from $500 to $600 (effective 2001), and will increase to $1,000 by 2010.
    * The standard deduction for married couples increased to equal twice that of single taxpayers.
    * The estate tax would be repealed in 2010.
    * Contribution limits for various tax-favored savings accounts (for retirement, education, etc.) were increased.

The Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 accelerated many of those provisions and cut tax rates on dividends and capital gains-small-business equipment write-off amounts were also increased:2

    * Effective 2003-2008, the maximum tax rate on qualified dividends will be 15 percent (formerly, dividends were taxed at the same levels as ordinary income).
    * The rate on long-term capital gains from sales after May 6, 2003, dropped from 20 percent to 15 percent.
    * Many small businesses can instantly deduct 100 percent of most new and used business assets (up to $100,000).

How Has the Economy Changed Since the Tax Cuts?

GDP Growth

After the recession in 2001 and the first round of tax cuts, economic growth speeded up and is expected to pickup even faster in 2004:3

    * The real annual GDP growth rate increased from 0.3 percent in 2001 to 2.5 percent in 2002.
    * In the third quarter of 2003, GDP grew at a 7.2 percent annual rate.
    * Forecasters are expecting GDP to grow by 4.6 percent in 2004, the highest in 20 years.
    * 2003 and 2004 economic growth levels surpassed Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates by 150 basis combined, resulting in $300 billion of additional growth, which is roughly $2,500 per household.

Employment, Jobs, and Productivity4

Though job creation was slow immediately following the recession and during the first stages of the recovery, it had increased dramatically by late 2002 and 2003.

    * 1.4 million jobs were added in the nine months after August 2003 (the 2003 tax cuts were signed into law in late May 2003).
    * The unemployment rate remained steady at 5.6 percent in May 2004, well below its peak of 6.3 percent a year ago.
    * The Treasury Department estimates that without the tax relief, as many as 1.5 million more Americans would be out of work right now, and the unemployment rate would be well over 7 percent.

The job growth statistics are particularly noteworthy because of greater-than-expected increases in productivity levels-high rates of productivity tend to mean less employment:

    * Productivity grew at a 4.6-percent annual rate in the first quarter of 2004, continuing the trend of large gains in productivity since 2001 due to investments in equipment and technology.
    * Higher productivity increases incomes and keeps inflation in check.

Furthermore, unemployment claims are at their lowest since the 2001 recession. The high rates of job growth matched with high rates of productivity point to the overall strength of the economy.

Investment, Spending and Inflation5

Consumer spending is on the rise, as is business investment. Economists credit the tax cuts for some of this growth-taxpayers' disposable income rose after receiving their rebates and businesses increased their inventory to meet increased demand.

    * Consumers' real disposable income has increased by more than 10 percent during the first 13 quarters of the Bush administration, compared to only 7 percent during the same period of the first Clinton administration.
    * Business investment increased at a 5.8-percent annual rate in the first quarter of 2004.

Though inflationary pressures have risen recently in response to increased business and consumer spending, inflation is low by historical standards:

    * The personal consumption expenditure index (the Fed's preferred inflation gauge) rose by 1 percent for an annual 3 percent inflation rate, but when volatile food and energy prices are removed from the index, the inflation rate is only 1.7 percent annually.
    * However, personal income growth is growing as well, so inflationary pressure is easier for the average worker to bear.

Dividend Payouts

A study on dividend payouts before and after the 2003 tax cut for all Standard & Poor's 500 companies showed a highly positive response to the tax cut:6

    * Annual dividends paid by S&P 500 companies rose from $146 billion to $172 billion, an increase of $26 billion.
    * In addition, special dividends of $7 billion have been paid, raising the total first-year dividend increase to $33 billion.
    * Thus, dividends increased 18 percent without special dividends and 23 percent with special dividends.
    * About 22 companies that did not previously pay dividends have initiated regular dividends.
    * Equity values rose more than $2 trillion after the tax cut.
    * Since 2003, nearly 19 companies have instituted a dividend payment for the first time, and almost 9 per­cent more companies paid out dividends after the tax cut than before the tax cut.
    * Dividends payments to taxpayers increased from an average of $410 in the second quarter of 2003 to $518 in the third quarter of 2005.
    * The overall payout of dividends in 2005 was over 36.5 percent higher than the payout before the 2003 tax cut and dividend income increased by a similar margin after the 2003 cut, from $750 to $1,000.

The large and positive response to the dividend tax cut, which is scheduled to expire at the end of 2008, suggests that Congress should make it permanent. 

Capital Gains7

    * In 1993, 14.5 million Americans claimed capital gains income, by 2003, the number had grown to 21.9 million Americans -- a 51 percent increase -- and the percent of all taxpayers report­ing capital gains income increased from 12.6 per­cent to 16.8 percent, respectively.
    * Taxpayers claimed an average of $12,283 in capital gains income in 2003, and shareholder wealth increased by more than $5 trillion.

The Bush Tax Cuts Are Working

The three Bush tax cuts have offered tax relief to every American taxpayer and businesses as well. Individuals and families kept more of their own income and tended to spend it or invest it, which led to impressive economic growth. Tax relief also lowered the cost of capital, making it easier for businesses to expand, increase profits, and hire more workers. Nearly all economic indicators show that we have recovered from the 2001 recession and are in a period of economic expansion.

Unfortunately, many of the Bush tax cut provisions have "sunset clauses" and will expire soon. Nearly all elements of the 2001 Economic Growth and Recovery Tax Act will expire in 2011 if legislators do not make them permanent. If that doesn't happen, taxpayers will face the largest tax increase in the nation's history.

That tax increase raises three legitimate concerns:8

    * Higher taxes encourage additional spending; there is no fixed relationship between taxes and spending, but history suggests that tax increases almost surely have the effect of loosening the reins on government spending.
    * Higher tax rates hurt competitiveness and growth ; all tax increases cause economic harm because they encourage bigger government but some types of tax increases do more economic damage than others, specifically, higher marginal tax rates on work, saving, and investment reduce incentives to engage in productive behavior.
    * The tax rates/tax revenue downward spiral ; if the Bush tax cuts are not extended and the economy is hit by a sizeable increase in marginal tax rates, economic performance will falter, and this translates into fewer jobs, lower incomes, and diminished profits, and that means less money for the government to tax.

Even though, H.R. 4297 is a step in the right direction and the tax cuts have spurred investment, job creation, and economic growth, repealing any part of them would be damaging to American taxpayers on an individual level and to the economy as a whole. Even if Congress allows a tax cut to expire in 2011, investors will respond by locking up their money in short-term projects rather than long-term ones. The U.S. economy is strong, but could become stronger if the Bush tax cuts are made permanent.

Moreover, according to the Congressional Budget Office's "Budget and Economic Outlook for 2006":9

    * Before the 2003 cut was enacted capital-gains tax liabilities were estimated to be $60 billion 2004 and $65 billion in 2005, for a two-year total of $125 billion.
    * But after the cut, liabilities were lowered to $46 billion in 2004 and $52 billion in 2005, for a two-year total of $98 billion.
    * Actual liabilities from capital-gains taxes were $71 billion in 2004 and $80 billion in 2005, for a two-year total of $151 billion.
    * Instead of costing the government $27 billion in revenues, the tax cuts actually earned the government $26 billion extra.

The Heritage Foundation also found that overall payout of dividends in 2005 was over 36.5 percent higher than the payout before the 2003 tax cut, and dividend income increased by a similar margin after the 2003 cut, from $750 to $1,000.10  Taxpayers also claimed an average of $12,283 in capital gains income in 2003, and shareholder wealth increased by more than $5 trillion.

In May 2006, President Bush signed the Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 (H.R. 4297) into law which extend the current tax cuts.  His signing assures that millions of taxpayers and millions more workers and business owners will enjoy low tax rates on capital gains and dividends and a potentially stronger economy through 2010.  Overall, extending JGTRRA's preferential rate structure on capital gains and dividend income will have small -- but positive -- effects on both gross domestic product (GDP) and employment. Personal consumption and business fixed investment are also likely to post modest gains as a result of H.R.4297 because it is only a temporary extension of an expiring provision.11

    * H.R. 4297's capital gains and dividend provisions are likely to influence economic activity by increasing personal disposable income by lowering federal tax payments and reducing the cost of capital to businesses by raising the value of U.S. equities.
    * Most immediately, H.R. 4297's capital gains and dividend provisions will lower income tax payments; extending JGTRRA's rate structure on capital gains and dividend income will reduce federal tax revenues by a total of some $18 billion in fiscal years 2009 and 2010 and over $50 billion between fiscal years 2008 and 2016.
    * This will likely boost personal consumption and business fixed investments over the medium term; this effect is also likely to be largest for the extension of JGTRRA's preferential tax rates on capital gains realizations.

Conclusion: Make the Bush Tax Cuts Permanent

In January 2006, the White House economic team began the push to make the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent because the tax policy program has been shown to help the United States economy to thrive, with steady job creation and strong economic growth.

If the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 are allowed to expire, millions of working families will see their economic prospects dim, their job opportunities diminish and economic uncertainty rise. Moreover, taxes will rise dramatically for most taxpayers. Between now and January 1, 2011:12

    * Tax rates will rise substantially in each tax bracket, some by 450 basis points and low-income taxpayers will see the 10-percent tax bracket disappear, and they will have to pay taxes at the 15-percent rate.
    * Married taxpayers will see the marriage penalty return and taxpayers with children will lose 50 percent of their child tax credits.
    * Taxes on dividends and capital gains will increase beginning on January 1, 2009 and federal death taxes will come back to life in 2011, after fading down to nothing in 2010.

However, if Congress makes the tax cuts permanent, the major economic benefits begin in 2011. According to the Center for Data Analysis at the Heritage Foundation:13

    * Significant economic gains will occur throughout the period from 2006-2014, particularly after 2008.
    * For example, making certain that taxes on investment remain low will add about 285,000 jobs per year in fiscal years 2008 and 2009.
    * In those two years alone, lower taxes on capital gains and dividends mean an additional $70 billion in economic output and an additional $110 billion in disposable income for households.
    * On average, total employment will rise by 1,087,000 jobs per year, and after inflation, annual GDP will be over $111 billion higher.
    * Personal savings will grow by $163 billion per year, on average, after inflation.
    * After-tax household income will grow by an annual average of $274 billion per year, after inflation.


   1. "What the Tax Cut Compromise Means to You," Associated Press, May 26, 2001.
   2. Bill Bischoff, "What the Bush Tax Cut Means to You," SmartMoney.com, May 27, 2003.
   3. Daniel Clifton, "ASA Letter to Make Capital Gains and Dividend Tax Cuts Permanent," American Shareholders Association, July 13, 2005.
   4. "A Jobless, Sluggish Economic Recovery? The Facts Say Otherwise," Republican Policy Committee, June 4, 2004.
   5. Ibid.
   6. Stephen Moore and Phil Kerpen, "Show Me the Money! Dividend Payouts after the Bush Tax Cuts," Cato Institute, October 12, 2004. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2478
   7. Rea S. Hederman, Jr. and William W. Beach, "Make the Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Rates Permanent to Keep the Economy Growing," Heritage Foundation, February 16, 2006. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1914.cfm
   8. Daniel J. Mitchell, Ph.D., "The President's Tax Agenda: Pro-Growth Measures Jeopardized by Excessive Spending and Misguided Focus on Deficit," Heritage Foundation, February 7, 2006; http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm992.cfm
   9. Congressional Budget Office, "The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2006 to 2015," CBO, January 2005. http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=6060&sequence=0
  10. Rea S. Hederman, Jr. and William W. Beach, "Make the Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Rates Permanent to Keep the Economy Growing," Heritage Foundation, February 16, 2006. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1914.cfm
  11. Tracy L. Foertsch, "A Victory for Taxpayers and the Economy," Heritage Foundation, May 17, 2006. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1082.cfm
  12. William W. Beach and Rea S. Hederman, Jr., "Make the Bush Tax Cuts Permanent," Heritage Foundation, January 5, 2006. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm956.cfm
  13. Ibid.

Logged
Scanner
Member
*****
Posts: 512


Tacoma, WA


« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2010, 06:48:57 PM »

Cool fishstix, at least when you cut and paste entire Heritage Foundation pamphlets and Republican Policy Committee press releases you include the footnotes...

But then, after all the wonderfulness in that glorious propaganda , they doubled the National debt.  Amazing ain't it.
Logged

Reality - it's nice here, come visit sometime!
fstsix
Guest
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2010, 03:41:29 AM »

Cool fishstix, at least when you cut and paste entire Heritage Foundation pamphlets and Republican Policy Committee press releases you include the footnotes...

But then, after all the wonderfulness in that glorious propaganda , they doubled the National debt.  Amazing ain't it.
just trying to help a friend make some money on his Capitol before your tax goes through the roof  Grin remember i did not vote for McCain, i couldn't pull the trigger, nor my wife or my son, If we are not gonna stop the party in power now, and the so Called Republican President that did not have the spine to stop the first Failed stimulus we are all screwed, you should do the same as i am doing, The spending is out of control.....But my point on that post was Taxation is gonna hurt you and me, Think of it this way; If i would have voted for McCain and this was on his watch the Conservative party would have been finished, meaning for those of us that knew McCain was a liberal and a FDR lover, we had no choice but to sit back and let the Dem's give a shot, now that America has woke up and the Arlen Specter's that were posing as Conservative's have been ousted, and the TEA American conservatives have sent shock waves through the political arena, one would hope that both partys should know that the incumbents are in serious trouble to just keep pounding our national dept into the ground. well....getting on the Bike goin to Laconia..i will complain at ya later Smiley
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 04:59:25 AM by fstsix » Logged
x
Member
*****
Posts: 873

0


« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2010, 07:20:22 AM »



Once again, a marginally informed person decides to try and raise a stink by creating an incorrect oversimplification of a much more complex subject... but then again, CA, complex may be beyond you.
 
The bill addresses cyber attack... viruses, and other elements that could seriously damage internet communications... it is a fact that the Chinese are well into cyber warfare.
 
I laugh... you condemn this president because he's not 'tough' enough on terror, and when a trial balloon is floated to try and do something to make the internet more secure, the yahoos all come racing out of their padded rooms to complain.

Suggestion, CA:  Read what the bill is intended to accomplish before posting this rubbish.
Logged
fudgie
Member
*****
Posts: 10613


Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.

Huntington Indiana


WWW
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2010, 07:29:18 AM »

I agree with SE on this.
Logged



Now you're in the world of the wolves...
And we welcome all you sheep...

VRCC-#7196
VRCCDS-#0175
DTR
PGR
stormrider
Member
*****
Posts: 1147


Kinsey, AL


« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2010, 08:57:36 PM »

"Tell me Scanner, what will happen if they default?" Well Stormrider, you're gonna really need that fishing pole to eat if that happens.  Basically, the world economy collapses.  If the nations who own us, primarily Asian, call in their debt and we default...no international trade,  super-high interest rates and raging inflation everywhere.  Maybe we give them more of our physical assets - land, harbors, weapons...I mean more than we already are. Anybody's guess...

It's coming whether we default or not.
Logged

Freedom will ultimately cost more than we care to pay but will be worth every drop of blood to those who follow and cherrish it.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: