bigvalkriefan
Member
Posts: 407
On the green monster
South Florida
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« on: March 24, 2009, 08:05:12 PM » |
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Hey guys, I'm in process of doing a de-smog and I picked up a real clean set of stock pipes, I have supertrapps on now and I'm tired of the noise.  With the trapps it was always running somewhat rich, even with 12 disks on each side. With it running rich now, what will happen with the stock pipes? Richer or leaner?  I bought the bike with them on so I don't know if the jets were changed for the trapps. Thanks in advance and I always look forward to checking out this site everyday, five or six times, to see whats going on.  Scott T |
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4
I know who wins in the end.
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Zorba
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 08:11:23 PM » |
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More back pressure with stock pipes should make it run even richer (a little), you can lean it out with a K&N air filter or by adjusting the air/fuel pilot screw or adding a "Dynojet stage one " kit, don't know why it runs rich with "Super Traps on unless you still have the stock air filter and bike isn't taking in enough air for those pipes?
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bigvalkriefan
Member
Posts: 407
On the green monster
South Florida
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 08:18:02 PM » |
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I really don't know whats in there. While it's apart for the de-smog I guess I need to take the carbs off and take a look, except I don't know what I'm looking at, jet wise. Is there any instructions for this?
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4
I know who wins in the end.
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DFragn
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 09:07:43 PM » |
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I really don't know whats in there. While it's apart for the de-smog I guess I need to take the carbs off and take a look, except I don't know what I'm looking at, jet wise. Is there any instructions for this?
Jet Needles:
They are just under the carb covers. Under the chrome carb cover is the real carb cover (black) with the needle spring. Under that is the diaphragm and in the center of that you use one of the cover screws screwed into the needle holder to remove the the diaphragm/needle holder. Once it has gently been removed hold the ABS body under the diaphragm and tug on the screw to remove the needle holder with the needle intact. Do this over a towel or something to avoid loosing a washer or the needle.
Stock needles will have a hefty head on it and one washer (that may stick to the bottom of the holder). More then 1 washer means someone added a washer to richen it up.
After market needles generally have no head and 5 notches for adjusting an "E" clip for needle height. If this is what you find and you go back to stock exhaust move the "E" clip to the second notch from the top. Then go out and run it and check your plug color.
Too dark then go back in and move the clips to the top notch.
Some aftermarket needles may be indistinguishable from stock based on my info here!
If you find stock needles in there I would check to see that your pilot screws are at 2.25 to 2.50 turns out. If the pilots are at 1.5 to 1.75 then that generally means someone changed out the slow jets from 35's to 38's. If you pull a jet you will be hard pressed to determine what size they are. They're not marked!
Hope this helps... |
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« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 09:10:53 PM by DFragn »
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bigvalkriefan
Member
Posts: 407
On the green monster
South Florida
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 03:29:40 AM » |
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Defragn,
It sounds like I don't have to remove the carb bank, is that right?
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4
I know who wins in the end.
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DFragn
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 05:02:10 AM » |
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That's right, no you don't.
Not to check the needles anyway.
Jet's, for some, can be done without removing the carb bank too. Both ways are a pain in the butt, but removing the bank for jets is more work and takes longer.
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Scott from FL, now in Maine
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 06:13:51 AM » |
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I have Supertrapps and love the sound. I am running with 11 discs on them and it doesn't run rich. I put on some stock pipes a while back while I redid the Supertrapp headers and it ran VERY rich then. I was so glad to get back to my Supertrapps. I have a K&N with the prefilter in. Good Luck to you and I hope you end up with the sound and ride you want.  |
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bigvalkriefan
Member
Posts: 407
On the green monster
South Florida
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 12:19:00 PM » |
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Can find a walk through anywhere, maybe in the old tech archives?
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Logged
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4
I know who wins in the end.
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98valk
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 03:41:48 PM » |
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The supertraps do not require a main jet change. So your in all likely hood still has the main jets. What was changed most likely was the needles or the stock needles have additional washer/s to raise the needle faster. That being said, why do u think the engine is running rich? are your plugs carboned up after running at 3/4 to WOT for at least five minutes and then shutting down, coasting to a stop and pulling the plugs? Unless the air box has been modified with the traps, I'm sure the main jets are stock and only the pilot jets and the needles have been adjusted from stock settings, which are easy to fix.  |
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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bigvalkriefan
Member
Posts: 407
On the green monster
South Florida
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2009, 05:17:41 AM » |
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CA you are correct, I checked the needles and the clips were all the way down. I reset them to the second slot per Defragn. I'm very glad to hear I may not have to change the jets. I will install the stock exhaust and do a plug check the way you describe. Can I just run the bike at a high RPM in the garage or does it have to have a load on it? I have never done a plug check the way you describe it. I would always check after normal riding. The plug color was a little dark but not carbon black. The reason I thought it was running rich was from the exhaust smell. It seemed to have a very rich smell, unburned gas. Others told me the same thing. Do you suppose the needles being set the way they were could cause that? Do I need to reset the screws, I'm sorry I forgot the name of them, to different turns out? Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it. Scott  |
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Logged
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4
I know who wins in the end.
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DFragn
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2009, 06:52:54 AM » |
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CA you are correct, I checked the needles and the clips were all the way down. I reset them to the second slot per Defragn. I'm very glad to hear I may not have to change the jets. I will install the stock exhaust and do a plug check the way you describe. Can I just run the bike at a high RPM in the garage or does it have to have a load on it? I have never done a plug check the way you describe it. I would always check after normal riding. The plug color was a little dark but not carbon black. The reason I thought it was running rich was from the exhaust smell. It seemed to have a very rich smell, unburned gas. Others told me the same thing. Do you suppose the needles being set the way they were could cause that? Do I need to reset the screws, I'm sorry I forgot the name of them, to different turns out? Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it. Scott
With the Supertraps still in place you may now be running lean. The 3rd notch from the top may be more appropriate until you change out the exhaust. Run it and read your plugs with each adjustment. A tinge of tan color is good. Bleach white - Too Lean-
If it's running well, it may not be neccesary to check the pilot screws until you do install a stock exhaust system. |
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« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 06:54:57 AM by DFragn »
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98valk
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2009, 07:41:59 AM » |
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http://factorypro.com/ click on "product support tech" then "motorcycle tunning tech" then "CV carb tunning" then "low rpm tunning" this will help u in understanding the three circuits of the carbs. idle to 1/8 throttle = pilot jets, 1/4 to 3/4 = needles, 3/4 to WOT = main jets. Each over lap each other and the pilot jet does effect the main at high rpm throttle changes. Cruising down the HWY your only about 1/8 throttle. NEVER run any engine at high rpms under ZERO LOAD. Plug testing is always done under load. for idle testing and transtition into the needles I use a colortune, http://www.autoexpertproducts.com/colortune-14mm.htm the gastester has been rated excellent.
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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bigvalkriefan
Member
Posts: 407
On the green monster
South Florida
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2009, 09:44:40 AM » |
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Defragn and CA thank you for your wisdom. I am installing the stock exhaust now so if you think I need to check the pilot screws let me know. I read about a special tool for that, I saw one on ebay and it was going for some crazy price, is this something I need? Can I make one? Thanks again guys!! Scott
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Logged
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.....say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
Isaiah 35:4
I know who wins in the end.
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DFragn
Guest
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2009, 02:16:53 PM » |
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If your not the original owner it would be best to check the pilot screws (air/fuel mixture screws) when you install OEM pipes. Yes you need a special "D" socket. Check Motion Pro's web site. they have them. And then order a (set) thumb screw (socket driver) from Harbor Freight. That's the least expensive way to go as opposed to $100.00+ for the mega tool.
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Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005
Member
Posts: 13830
American by Birth, Southern by the Grace of God.
Beautiful east Tennessee ( GOD'S Country )
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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2009, 02:34:31 PM » |
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Hey guys, I'm in process of doing a de-smog and I picked up a real clean set of stock pipes, I have supertrapps on now and I'm tired of the noise. With the trapps it was always running somewhat rich, even with 12 disks on each side. With it running rich now, what will happen with the stock pipes? Richer or leaner? I bought the bike with them on so I don't know if the jets were changed for the trapps. Thanks in advance and I always look forward to checking out this site everyday, five or six times, to see whats going on. Scott T Interested in a trade ...Your Super Trapps for a nice set of stockers with the piggies cut and their little eyes drilled out ? |
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 I've seen alot of people that thought they were cool , but then again Lord I've seen alot of fools. |
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98valk
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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 06:08:37 PM » |
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See if u can track down this honda tool. it has a flexible spring head. been using it for yrs. 07MMA-MT3010B WRENCH PILOT SCREW one place to buy, I org received mine from directline http://speedsupplies.com/parts/honda-07MMA-MT3010B.htm looks like out of stock now. here's a pic http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2981320480053727880fylVQR |
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Logged
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1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed
1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other."
John Adams 10/11/1798
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