What is FAST?

[Momz]

This question goes out to all the real Tech gurus out there.
How do you define what is a fast motorcycle?

Is it defined in quarter mile times?
Is defined as maximum torque?
Do you define calculated HP as your criteria?
Does roll-on acceleration have any bearing on your definition?
How about: power to  weight ratios versus torque to HP ratios?
 
These questions are a result of a disscussion with a fellow member about fast motorcycles (especially Valks versus HDs). Two years ago I test rode a HD with a Stage III kit on it. Yes it was fast (for a Harley) but, it seemed to suck up fuel like there was no tomorrow. It also seemed to run quite hot considering it was a cool day, which started me thinking about how long would that motor last.
The very first time I rode my GL1100 I was literaly "blown away" by the quality of the power and the acceleration. This was compared to my DOHC 750 Supersport with a Wiseco 835 big bore kit. Things really got out of hand when I bought my first Valk and I started to make small modifications and the resultant subtle changes in the (perchieved) power delivery.

So todays discussion starting to make me think about what is important when defining the qualities that I find important in my own motorcycles.

[Master Blaster]

-1 front sprocket, Piped and PCd.  Pushing 200 HP at rear wheel.  Does it anyway you want it.

[Kidd]

-1 front sprocket, Piped and PCd.  Pushing 200 HP at rear wheel.  Does it anyway you want it.

What is this and  do you live  near me so I can ride it ?

[Shockbushing Gary]

Several picky things
fast=velocity
I have always wanted to go 200 MPH on a motorcycle. When I get to go 200, that will be fast. I've been 150, and that was fast.

quick= acceleration/time
There are a lot of quick motorcycles out there. weight (with rider) divided by HP at the wheel defines quick.

planted= able to corner well. Tho the Valk corners fairly well, it was this area that finally got me to look around and get something better planted.

flickable= able to change directions quickly. Again, weight has a lot to do with it, but HP to weight is the rest.

So what's fast? One of my buddies NEVER goes over the speed limit. We don't ride together. Too slow for me. But he's having a good time. So for him, I guess fast is the speed limit or just over.
I think fast is in the definition of the rider. I've gone fast, but want to go faster. I am a speed junkie. Someone else will feel differently. I'm all for each riding their own ride.... 

[Momz]

Bostonrats,

Yes I was talking about Valks. I do agree about suspension feel and vibration having effects on your perception of speed.

I also believe the sound of the exhaust affects ones perception of speed/acceleration.

However I'm compiling info as to what is important in the "search" for what is the most frequently used criteria in the quest for more POWER!

[Momz]

During IZ V in Paducah, KY, I was able to spend some time with Mike of Viper Performance and his views of performance were quite surprising. I also had my I/S dynoed by T-n-T near the end of Saturday. My bike showed 93 Ft.Lb and 93 HP.
There were quite a few Valks that made more torque or HP, however Mike said that my bike would probably be faster than most of the comparable I/Ss due to the fact that the Dyno curves were so smooth, without dips and peaks and the air fuel ratio seemed ideal for a every day rider.

I am not a street racer or any type of speed freak. My reaction times are not anywhere what is required for dragracing and with my physical limitations, I'm not even going to pretend that I could.

Yet performance, or the best definition of (Valk) performance is what I'm looking for. 

[Tropic traveler]

What is fast I guess depends on what interests you. Being a all-American boy coming up at the tail end of the musclecar era I lean towards the drag racing crowd. Raw acceleration & the good old "whatz she run in the quarter" question are the things that mean something to me. I'm sure folks in other parts of the world or people who grew up at a different time may think "fast" is your lap time at the local road race circuit. There all ALL KINDS of bikes available that do lots of things better than others do just as a matter of application. Different stroke for different folks.

Now as far as the Valk vs. HD thing, bringing a STOCK HD big cruiser to engage a STOCK Valk {also a big cruiser} is like bringing a knife to a gunfight in acceleration or HP contests. Just a simple matter of mechanical engineering at work. Even though the HD Vtwin is of near equal displacement to the F6 the stock performance difference is very apparent. Six cylinders with 6 intake & 6 exhaust ports are going to move more air/fuel mixture in & out of the engine thus making more power than only two cylinders can. Water cooling vs. air cooling help the F-6 exploit that advantage. Of course, modifications can close or reverse that gap & other factors can come into play too. After all, you don't race engines on a track you race whole bikes.
Even though there are faster & higher HP cruisers on the market now, Rocket 3, VTX 1800, M109R to name a few, in the 1997-2003 era the Valk was King. 

Long live the Valkyrie! Still nothing like it on the market today! 

[sugerbear]

fast is the speed at which my wife pokes me in the ribs and i slow down>>

[98valk]

HP is how Fast u hit the wall
Torque is how Far u move the wall.


formerly, 98valk

[John U.]

I guess for some top speed is the goal. For most of us I think butt dyno acceleration is the enjoyable
reason for the quest for more power.
It would be interesting to have several bikes of equal dynoed torque but different look, seating, type of bike, to see how the perception of power varies.

[CajunRider]

Fast is anything that passes me... Slow is anything I pass...   

I think "fast" (in terms of vehicles/bikes) is a mixture of acceleration AND handling (cornering abilities) AND top speed. 

For instance... My KLR650 tops out at 98mph with 35 horses... my KLX450 tops out at 85 with 60 horses... On the street, my KLR is fast (top speed and good road hugging abilities)... in the dirt, my KLX is faster (better suspension in the rough stuff, lighter, more acceleration).  Neither can catch my Valk at top speed, but both could run laps around it in the really curvy/knarley stuff. 

So... in the end, "fast" depends on where you're riding, amount of curves, the type of ground/dirt/mud/asphalt/concrete you're on, and the shape of the turf (smooth/bumpy/loose, etc.) 

Therefore, "fast" can not be defined without first defining the circumstances. 

Makes sense to anyone? Or am I just talking smack???    

[fudgie]

2 tone.... 

[f6john]

Fast for me is measured by how tight my pucker string gets. Fastest I've ever been was at the entrance to an off camber left hander with some loose gravel in the center. That will get your heart rate pumping.

[Larry]

Fast is a perception of how quickly something in front of you appears and then disappears behind you in your mirror. In space you are going about 20,000 mph around the earth which from pictures you see taken from space does not appear to be fast when looking at the earth rolling by. Going 20,000 mph on a road with trees wizzing by, now thats FAST!!! So you see, it is perception. 

[VALKTERY]

fast is how quick a $20 bill disapeared when gas was $4.50 a gallon...

[YardBoy]

To me you start getting fast anytime you can get into the 12s and over a hundred mph in the quarter mile.  I've owned 8 musclecars and seven motorcycles that I considered fast.  Took a ton of money to get the musclecars into the 12s or better, most all would run the hundred right out of the box.  The Valkyrie will do it stock and drives quite a bit like the best ot the special hi-performance big blocks of yesteryear.   

[VALKTERY]

Guess this would qualify , 130 mph in 10.08 seconds, felt fast to me...

[YardBoy]

9.84 @ 134 felt too fast, and on 4 wheels.

[Bagger John - #3785]

This is fast:



420 RWHP; its predecessor makes ~290RWHP and is theoretically good for 230.

[Freaksize]

THIS IS FAST!

Rocky made this pass at the Bub finals.....
Twin turbo 'Busa Engines...

(go to youtube and put in Ack Attack)



I was also about 100 yards away when John made this pass.....

(go to youtube and put in John Noonan El Mirage 2007)

he also holds the sidecar record at around 220mph and if my memory serves me, he made a pass over 250mph in '07 on the Salt.

I have been hangin out with these land speed racers for a couple years now...there's a couple, the old man, Nick Nicolides in his 80's, and his wife, Connie Beavers, in her 70's- matching turbo 'busas-Both go over 200.....I had the fat girl up to about 115mph on the dirt and it skeered me bad......started doin this long tailwaggin thing...didn't have my bucket on and I shut 'er down....these folks are like dope fiends and their drug of choice is MPH's

wanna see some REALLY fast stuff? check out this link      http://www.scta-bni.org/

I have an old beemer I was gonna race this year until the economy tanked...mebee next year

[Freaksize]

I ran the Valk 120 mph for 70 miles across I 80 in Nevada...all that happened was I hit reserve...does that qualify as fast?

[DeathWishBikerDude]

I'd say things get pretty interesting at about 120 MPH.
I love to see the terrain become a blur.
 

[pvan]

What is fast for a street motorcycle? Go to Utube type in turbo hayabusa and click on Ghost Rider the answer will be self explanatory.

Fast for a stock Valk is 120mph for 70 miles, fast for my supercharged Valk was spanking a  big mouthed little dentist on a hopped up R111 and I did not use my 50hp of N20.

[Robert]

This is a great story reposted I think from RJ. It answers the question what is fast. Like one mans ceiling is another mans floor. I found this on my computer while I was working on my Valk so now its tech related.
The SR-71 was the brainchild of Kelly Johnson, the famed Lockheed designer who created the P-38, the F-104 Starfighter, and the U-2. After the Soviets shot down Gary Powers' U-2 in 1960, Johnson began to develop an aircraft that would fly three miles higher and five times faster than the spy plane-and still be capable of photographing your license plate. However, flying at 2,000 mph would create intense heat on the aircraft's skin. Lockheed engineers used a titanium alloy to construct more than 90 percent of the SR-71, creating special tools and manufacturing procedures to hand-build each of the 40 planes. Special heat-resistant fuel, oil, and hydraulic fluids that would function at 85,000 feet and higher also had to be developed.

In 1962, the first Blackbird successfully flew, and in 1966, the same year I graduated from high school, the Air Force began flying operational SR-71 missions. I came to the program in 1983 with a sterling record and a recommendation from my commander, completing the weeklong interview and meeting Walter, my partner for the next four years. He would ride four feet behind me, working all the cameras, radios, and electronic jamming equipment. I joked that if we were ever captured, he was the spy and I was just the driver. He told me to keep the pointy end forward.

We trained for a year, flying out of Beale AFB in California , Kadena Airbase in Okinawa , and RAF Mildenhall in England . On a typical training mission, we would take off near Sacramento, refuel over Nevada, accelerate into Montana, obtain high Mach over Colorado, turn right over New Mexico, speed across the Los Angeles Basin, run up the West Coast, turn right at Seattle, then return to Beale. Total flight time: two hours and 40 minutes.

One day, high above Arizona , we were monitoring the radio traffic of all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna pilot asked the air traffic controllers to check his ground speed. "Ninety knots," ATC replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. "One-twenty on the ground," was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the radio with a ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of course, he had a ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted to let all the bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was "Dusty 52, we show you at 620 on the ground," ATC responded. The situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's mike button in the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled the controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet, clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the controller replied, "Aspen 20, I show you at 1,982 knots on the ground." We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast.

[pvan]

81,000 ft and 1,982 knots is a quite a bit faster than fast ... unless the Discovery or ET was airborne same time as you!

[theman8120]

what is the top speed for a super charged valk? quartermile time? 

[hojo70]

I had a buddy that used to say "There are fast motorcycles, and there are fast Harleys. Never confuse the two."

[woody]

Fast;
I have owned several motorcycles over the years and thought all of them were fast, that is until I got my Valk.
First ride I thought "wonder how this thing goes" so being reasonably stupid I eased it up into second and twisted the throttle ALL THE WAY............The result was that I was thrown back and actually let go of the handlebars. Fortunatly, the lady Valk realised I had mistreated her and slowed down so I could scramble forward and grab the bars again. Once my heart climbed down out of my throat and I managed to get my eyes back in their sockets I tried it again with a little more grip....all I could say was WOW.
All the other bikes had nothing on the Valk, I fell in love with lady Valk from that day on.
FAST, falling in love with the Valk.

[Skeeter (Va)]

This is a great story reposted I think from RJ. It answers the question what is fast. Like one mans ceiling is another mans floor. I found this on my computer while I was working on my Valk so now its tech related.
The SR-71 was the brainchild of Kelly Johnson, the famed Lockheed designer who created the P-38, the F-104 Starfighter, and the U-2. After the Soviets shot down Gary Powers' U-2 in 1960, Johnson began to develop an aircraft that would fly three miles higher and five times faster than the spy plane-and still be capable of photographing your license plate. However, flying at 2,000 mph would create intense heat on the aircraft's skin. Lockheed engineers used a titanium alloy to construct more than 90 percent of the SR-71, creating special tools and manufacturing procedures to hand-build each of the 40 planes. Special heat-resistant fuel, oil, and hydraulic fluids that would function at 85,000 feet and higher also had to be developed.

In 1962, the first Blackbird successfully flew, and in 1966, the same year I graduated from high school, the Air Force began flying operational SR-71 missions. I came to the program in 1983 with a sterling record and a recommendation from my commander, completing the weeklong interview and meeting Walter, my partner for the next four years. He would ride four feet behind me, working all the cameras, radios, and electronic jamming equipment. I joked that if we were ever captured, he was the spy and I was just the driver. He told me to keep the pointy end forward.

We trained for a year, flying out of Beale AFB in California , Kadena Airbase in Okinawa , and RAF Mildenhall in England . On a typical training mission, we would take off near Sacramento, refuel over Nevada, accelerate into Montana, obtain high Mach over Colorado, turn right over New Mexico, speed across the Los Angeles Basin, run up the West Coast, turn right at Seattle, then return to Beale. Total flight time: two hours and 40 minutes.

One day, high above Arizona , we were monitoring the radio traffic of all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna pilot asked the air traffic controllers to check his ground speed. "Ninety knots," ATC replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. "One-twenty on the ground," was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the radio with a ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of course, he had a ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted to let all the bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was "Dusty 52, we show you at 620 on the ground," ATC responded. The situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's mike button in the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled the controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet, clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the controller replied, "Aspen 20, I show you at 1,982 knots on the ground." We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast.

    I once got a USAirways B-727-200 up to .88 MACH and in the west to east Jet Steam from Seattle to Charlotte..had a speed over the ground of 11 miles a minute==660 MPH....No record, but tooling right along....