SlowRoad
Member
    
Posts: 368
Heart of a Legend with a whole lot of Soul
Hartselle AL
|
 |
« on: August 31, 2010, 12:46:02 PM » |
|
Guys, I used guard dog moly at last maintenance, I now have to replace my drive shaft and pinion cup.  I did let it go for 15000 miles,  but the teeth are about 1/2 worn thru. The splines have some damage too, but are still servicable as long as I keep them lubed. Switched to Belray this time, but my question is where to get the pinion cup. I know Pinwall has the drive shaft, but can't find a pinion cup. A link would be much appreciated. Thanks. Tim
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
roboto65
|
 |
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 12:55:23 PM » |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Allen Rugg VRCC #30806 1999 Illusion Blue Valkyrie Interstate 1978 Kawasaki KZ 650 project 
|
|
|
SlowRoad
Member
    
Posts: 368
Heart of a Legend with a whole lot of Soul
Hartselle AL
|
 |
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 02:45:23 PM » |
|
roboto65, thanks for the link. I can never find these pages on the dlp website.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
roboto65
|
 |
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2010, 02:49:40 PM » |
|
No problem I am going to be doing this soon myself I think 
|
|
|
Logged
|
Allen Rugg VRCC #30806 1999 Illusion Blue Valkyrie Interstate 1978 Kawasaki KZ 650 project 
|
|
|
Jess from VA
|
 |
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2010, 03:25:44 PM » |
|
Something I discovered: My Ujoint went south and I ordered the U-joint, drive shaft and pinion cup in case I needed any or all of these parts.
I needed the U-joint only, the shaft and pinion cup were perfect.
I removed and seated my own left (double row) rear wheel bearing at this time, and the pinion cup is exactly the perfect size to seat the bearings in the wheel pocket.... the funnel outer edge perfectly touches just the outer race of the bearing, and the pinion cup is hardened steel. Pinion cup to bearing with a piece of two by four at the rear of the cup to strike with a mallet. Seated the bearing perfectly, and not a scratch on the pinion cup. FWIW
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tropic traveler
Member
    
Posts: 3117
Livin' the Valk, er, F6B life in Central Florida.
Silver Springs, Florida
|
 |
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2010, 04:36:36 PM » |
|
Something I discovered: My Ujoint went south and I ordered the U-joint, drive shaft and pinion cup in case I needed any or all of these parts.
I needed the U-joint only, the shaft and pinion cup were perfect.
I removed and seated my own left (double row) rear wheel bearing at this time, and the pinion cup is exactly the perfect size to seat the bearings in the wheel pocket.... the funnel outer edge perfectly touches just the outer race of the bearing, and the pinion cup is hardened steel. Pinion cup to bearing with a piece of two by four at the rear of the cup to strike with a mallet. Seated the bearing perfectly, and not a scratch on the pinion cup. FWIW
Thanks for the tip Jess! Now I know what to do with the worn out pinion cup, you just saved it from the trash can.  
|
|
|
Logged
|
'13 F6B black-the real new Valkyrie Tourer '13 F6B red for Kim '97 Valkyrie Tourer r&w, OLDFRT's ride now! '98 Valkyrie Tourer burgundy & cream traded for Kim's F6B '05 SS 750 traded for Kim's F6B '99 Valkyrie black & silver Tourer, traded in on my F6B '05 Triumph R3 gone but not forgotten!
|
|
|
Jess from VA
|
 |
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2010, 04:41:00 PM » |
|
Welcome. I'm not kidding, it is not a threaded bearing puller, but for carefully knocking wheel bearings into the wheel pockets (at least on the rear), the pinion cup is the perfect tool.
Hmmmm. I have an emergency package in my other bike.. a double row right, for the sure to fail left rear bearing, and a cut down wheel spacer. I better add that pinion cup to the tool pouch if I take that bike on any trips.
|
|
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 05:56:16 AM by Jess from VA »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Robert
|
 |
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 04:41:05 AM » |
|
Wheres Mr Meyers when you need him he said the rear end lube was the thing that lubed that. Also make sure the hole was open for the lube to go into the pinion cup. I see the hole perfectly open with all that rust in there. 
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
|
|
|
Jeff K
|
 |
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 05:15:59 AM » |
|
Wheres Mr Meyers when you need him he said the rear end lube was the thing that lubed that. Also make sure the hole was open for the lube to go into the pinion cup. I see the hole perfectly open with all that rust in there.  One of these days... I have a new swing arm final drive setup... I'm going to rig that thing up to a "rolling road" (my belt sander) and shine a flash light down the tube and prove once and for all that oil is not "pumped" up into the drive pinion. Right now it's all just opinion. 
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Daniel Meyer
Member
    
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
|
 |
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 06:11:52 AM » |
|
Not really opinion Jeff...until I got smart and moved into the technology world to earn a real living, I was a Honda certified mechanic (one of the reasons I don't trust most shops).
Be sure and orient it correctly, turn it fast, and bounce it voilently around like the unsprung weight it is when you run your test. I think you'll be surprised. You're right...oil's not "pumped up", mist is "drawn up". Quite a but of it actually.
The oil in the rear end mostly goes to mist as it's slung around and bouncing about and hitting the gears. The pinion joint is designed to be lubed and COOLED by the rear end oil. If they were simply splines, you could grease them and they'd be fine...but they are a flexible joint and without lube and cooling they generate a lot of heat and will wear out fast.
The grease (not paste) Honda calls for on the pinion joint is essentially assembly lube and will shortly end up down in your drive oil. Paste will likely clog those holes if used and accelerate the wear.
My opinion is they suck...Honda should have put a bearing there for alignment and just put a spline or rubber/steel star or a such....but then alignment would have been trickier.
They tend to gather crud...they are a great centrifugal filter...and any water vapor or dust that enters the vent and doesn't exit seems to work it's way up there and get spun out and accumulates especially in the somewhat hollowed out end of the driveshaft. When there's enough it comes loose and clogs the holes and rapid burn up of the splines/ect happen.
Clean it every 10,000-15,000 or so (check the holes in the pinion cup too...tip the rear end down and oil will come out of them) and they'll get you 100,000 miles or more (they do wear somewhat).
Adds about 10 minutes to a typical wheel change.
|
|
|
Logged
|
CUAgain, Daniel Meyer 
|
|
|
Cattman
|
 |
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 06:32:05 AM » |
|
HDL is having a 10% off sale that includes OEM parts.  Direct Line Parts 2010 Labor Day Sale 10% Off all Orders with Merchandise Totaling Over $100 Starts 6PM, Friday, August 27, 2010 Ends at 8AM Tuesday, September 7, 2010 The Coupon Code is LABORDAY 10% Off all Orders with Merchandise Totaling Over $100 made before 8am Eastern on Tuesday, September 7, 2010, when you enter Coupon Code of LABORDAY at checkout. Read below for more details. Parts Club Members also get their discounts off these products as well. Parts Club Members must LOGIN to the club to see club pricing. To join the Parts Club and Get the Extra Discounts, CLICK HERE We are including our OEM parts store in the sale. You can order Honda OEM parts at our site www.hdlparts.com. Orders placed on either site must total $100 to be eligible for the sale. *** Amounts from orders placed on the 2 sites cannot be combined to reach the $100 level *** IMPORTANT FACTS TO REMEMBER: 1. Coupon code is LABORDAY 2. Sale starts 6PM, Friday, August 27, 2010 3. Sale ends 8AM Tuesday, September 7, 2010 4. 10% discount on Most Items In Our Store (read below for all excluded items) 5. Must place order at www.DirectLineParts.com or www.hdlparts.com (Honda OEM Parts) 6. Orders must have Merchandise totaling $100 to qualify 7. Cannot be combined with any other discount codes or offers Orders must be placed in our online store which is www.DirectLineParts.com or www.hdlparts.com. The coupon code must be entered at checkout to receive the discount. Discount does not apply to previously ordered merchandise. You must type the coupon code in the coupon section when you check out of the online store. Use this coupon code LABORDAY. If you have done this correctly you will see the adjusted order totals on your checkout and in your email confirmation. If you do not see the discounted amount then you have entered it wrong or ordered something not eligible. The following items are NOT eligible for the extra discount: Parts Club Memberships, Honda oil/chemical products, Suzuki Warranties, items listed in the Bargain Hunter categories, and discounts do not apply to the purchase of any vehicles, motorcycles, ATV or scooters. You must type the coupon codes in the coupon section when you check out of the online store. Use the coupon codes noted at the top of this e-mail. We offer this type of sale several times per year. We do it because we want to sell a lot of merchandise and we want you to have some money left in your pocket. We want to do all of this without having to answer telephone calls and inputting orders into the computer. We can save money that way and pass the savings on to the online community that visits our message boards. We have a huge inventory but we must rely on our suppliers and manufacturers to provide us with a steady flow of merchandise. If we do not have the items in stock we will maintain your order in a backorder status until we receive the merchandise and ship it to you. Or you may cancel the order at your discretion. If you are in need of an item in a hurry, please call your order in to make sure that you get the item when needed. You will not be eligible for the discount on orders placed on the phone. These sale discounts cannot be combined with any other offer, coupon or discount. All of our employees appreciate the business that you entrust to us. We do screw-up occasionally and all we ask is that you give us the opportunity to take care of the problem. If you need help with a problem, then please call any of us at 1-888-693-1011. Direct Line Parts, Inc. The coupon code is: LABORDAY for a 10% discount on most products
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jeff K
|
 |
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2010, 07:00:34 AM » |
|
Not really opinion Jeff...until I got smart and moved into the technology world to earn a real living, I was a Honda certified mechanic (one of the reasons I don't trust most shops).
Be sure and orient it correctly, turn it fast, and bounce it voilently around like the unsprung weight it is when you run your test. I think you'll be surprised. You're right...oil's not "pumped up", mist is "drawn up". Quite a but of it actually.
The oil in the rear end mostly goes to mist as it's slung around and bouncing about and hitting the gears. The pinion joint is designed to be lubed and COOLED by the rear end oil. If they were simply splines, you could grease them and they'd be fine...but they are a flexible joint and without lube and cooling they generate a lot of heat and will wear out fast.
The grease (not paste) Honda calls for on the pinion joint is essentially assembly lube and will shortly end up down in your drive oil. Paste will likely clog those holes if used and accelerate the wear.
My opinion is they suck...Honda should have put a bearing there for alignment and just put a spline or rubber/steel star or a such....but then alignment would have been trickier.
They tend to gather crud...they are a great centrifugal filter...and any water vapor or dust that enters the vent and doesn't exit seems to work it's way up there and get spun out and accumulates especially in the somewhat hollowed out end of the driveshaft. When there's enough it comes loose and clogs the holes and rapid burn up of the splines/ect happen.
Clean it every 10,000-15,000 or so (check the holes in the pinion cup too...tip the rear end down and oil will come out of them) and they'll get you 100,000 miles or more (they do wear somewhat).
Adds about 10 minutes to a typical wheel change.
I don't believe I have ever seen any oil in my pinion. And I've never had one show any wear. Same drive shaft for 130,000 miles. I grease em and run them. I have never had to do much maintenance on it. I only look at it when the final drive is off for some other reason. I've never pulled it just to grease it. It seems like I'm tearing it down often enough for some other project.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
tybme
Member
    
Posts: 335
1999 Valkyrie I/S
Topeka KS
|
 |
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2010, 08:48:33 AM » |
|
I had to recently replace mine due to the hole being plugged. 43k miles though only 4k miles by me. I will be taking it apart every 10k or so to check it.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways. totally worn out, shouting, "Holy ****... What a Ride!" 
|
|
|
hubcapsc
Member
    
Posts: 16785
upstate
South Carolina
|
 |
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2010, 10:42:46 AM » |
|
I had to recently replace mine due to the hole being plugged. 43k miles though only 4k miles by me. I will be taking it apart every 10k or so to check it.
This was a new pinion cup one and a half tires ago... don't know what I did wrong...  The seal failed and was out - the reason? An effect? idaknow...  -Mike
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Robert
|
 |
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 10:46:35 AM » |
|
I was a Honda certified mechanic (one of the reasons I don't trust most shops).
No wonder  just kidding  but he also doesn't tell all like he does lube them with Belray. 
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
|
|
|
Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008
|
 |
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 03:55:48 PM » |
|
I've always cleaned the holes in the bottom of the cup and put some grease on the splines on mine just to be safe. I use a grease made by royal purple on the final drive splines and on the cup and driveshaft (both ends) whenever I'm serving the lady. 
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
MikeT
|
 |
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 04:27:19 PM » |
|
I had a severe failure back around July 4th. Drive shaft was stuck in pinion cup . Had to slice the cup with an abrasive cut off wheel to get the drive shaft out. Teeth were gone and cup was full of red rust. After I took off the nut to remove the pinion cup form the pinion shaft I noticed the holes were clear but upon further examination the oil seal that is mounted in the toothed, cast, nut that holds the pinion bearing inplace had move covering the coss drilled oil holes in the pinion cup not allowing gear lube to enter. I put in a new seal, Oring, pinion cup, drive shaft with a new oil seal on it and reassembled with just an coating of lube. Will check again at next tire change. Be sure to check that seal location to make sure it did not work it's way out. Although it requires pinion cup removal. The holes inside the pinion cup may appear to be clear when poking in a wire or other object but the cross holes that let in the gear lube may be covered. Just a word of warning.
Mike
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
MP
Member
    
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
|
 |
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2010, 05:35:54 AM » |
|
I had a severe failure back around July 4th. Drive shaft was stuck in pinion cup . Had to slice the cup with an abrasive cut off wheel to get the drive shaft out. Teeth were gone and cup was full of red rust. After I took off the nut to remove the pinion cup form the pinion shaft I noticed the holes were clear but upon further examination the oil seal that is mounted in the toothed, cast, nut that holds the pinion bearing inplace had move covering the coss drilled oil holes in the pinion cup not allowing gear lube to enter. I put in a new seal, Oring, pinion cup, drive shaft with a new oil seal on it and reassembled with just an coating of lube. Will check again at next tire change. Be sure to check that seal location to make sure it did not work it's way out. Although it requires pinion cup removal. The holes inside the pinion cup may appear to be clear when poking in a wire or other object but the cross holes that let in the gear lube may be covered. Just a word of warning.
Mike
Can you explain further? You mean on the INSIDE, after removing the cup? MP
|
|
|
Logged
|
 "Ridin' with Cycho"
|
|
|
MikeT
|
 |
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2010, 05:45:25 AM » |
|
To look inside the pinion cup you must remove the drive shaft from it. A firm pull will do this. Then when you look inside the pinion cup you will see the splines the splines on the drive shaft mate with. You will also see a nut that holds the pinion cup onto the pinion gear shaft. THere are 2 holes 180 degrees apart at the bottom of the cup near the nut. They are approximately 3/16" in diameter. These are the holes that allow gear lube into the pinion cup and lube the splines. THese holes have a cross hole drilled to them. Hope this helps. Mike
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
SlowRoad
Member
    
Posts: 368
Heart of a Legend with a whole lot of Soul
Hartselle AL
|
 |
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2010, 11:48:42 AM » |
|
When I say that the pinion cup was dry, the Guard Dog moly was still there as well as the final drive splines, but it was dry and caked up everywhere except the mating surfaces. It had left the metal unprotected and running metal to metal.
Tim
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
MP
Member
    
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
|
 |
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2010, 12:26:51 PM » |
|
THese holes have a cross hole drilled to them.
I understand all, until you get to this. A crosshole? I have had several apart, and I have seen no crosshole?
MP
|
|
|
Logged
|
 "Ridin' with Cycho"
|
|
|
MikeT
|
 |
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2010, 01:15:59 PM » |
|
Since you have had a pinion cup off then you know tht the end that goes thru an oil seal is much smaller than the open end. an additional hole is drilled in the OD of this portion and goes to hole that you see when looking inside the spined portion of the cup. THere is also a notch in the face by this hole where it slides onto the pinion gear shaft. These are the holes that were covered by the oil seal when it moved out of its proper position.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Valkpilot
Member
    
Posts: 2151
What does the data say?
Corinth, Texas
|
 |
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2010, 04:33:14 PM » |
|
Pictures in the thread here may help: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,18257.0.htmlIn particular, there is one picture that shows the final drive oil weeping from the holes at the bottom of the pinion cup.
|
|
|
Logged
|
VRCC #19757 IBA #44686 1998 Black Standard 2007 Goldwing 
|
|
|
98valk
|
 |
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2010, 04:57:17 PM » |
|
mist is "drawn up". Quite a but of it actually. The oil in the rear end mostly goes to mist as it's slung around and bouncing about and hitting the gears. The pinion joint is designed to be lubed and COOLED by the rear end oil. If they were simply splines, you could grease them and they'd be fine...but they are a flexible joint and without lube and cooling they generate a lot of heat and will wear out fast. The grease (not paste) Honda calls for on the pinion joint is essentially assembly lube and will shortly end up down in your drive oil. Paste will likely clog those holes if used and accelerate the wear. They tend to gather crud...they are a great centrifugal filter...and any water vapor or dust that enters the vent and doesn't exit seems to work it's way up there and get spun out and accumulates especially in the somewhat hollowed out end of the driveshaft. When there's enough it comes loose and clogs the holes and rapid burn up of the splines/ect happen.
110% disagree with your oil mist theory. first off an oil mist would not keep the gears cool and lubed. air is a poor lubricate. oil mist lubrication is used in certain industrial applications but not a this final drive. the final drive is a sealed unit according to the cut away drawings of the unit in the tech manual showing the final assembly including the pinion retainer and oil seal. There is no transfer of gear oil to the drive shaft splines. manual requires a new drive shaft oil seal and warns not to damage it when installing the drive shaft into the pinion joint (aka pinion cup). this seal is what seals the moly grease in the drive shaft/pinion joint connection. Although not in the manual I would put some sealant in the gear case to swing arm connection unless there is an actual vent hole. I will be doing an E3 tire change this wknd, so will be looking closely at this. The drive shaft splines are required to have moly grease, minimum 3% moly.
|
|
|
Logged
|
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed 1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other." John Adams 10/11/1798
|
|
|
RP#62
|
 |
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2010, 05:11:25 PM » |
|
Cross holes 
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
98valk
|
 |
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2010, 05:36:51 PM » |
|
that end of the PJ slides onto the splines of the pinion gear. once the PJ nut is installed that area is sealed. the holes are surrounded by the pinion retainer and then the oil seal, which seals any gear oil sepage from entering the PJ. the cut away drawing is very clear. There cannot be any migration of gear oil into the PJ. if there is, one has a major problem.
|
|
|
Logged
|
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed 1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other." John Adams 10/11/1798
|
|
|
Robert
|
 |
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2010, 06:13:49 PM » |
|
Holes or no holes all I know is that if you use Belray or a similar grease then I have not seen a shaft damaged. But if you rely on the holes then the results will be as above. The failure rate speaks for itself as for the ability of the holes to lubricate. 
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
|
|
|
lee
|
 |
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2010, 06:19:20 PM » |
|
Never hurts to take a closer look: (SCRATCH HEAD) then look again.  The flange on the nut that holds the Pcup on only covers half of the holes. Red arrow indicates direction of rotation. There is only one lub pick up hole. Its drilled on an angle to pull in oil mist. Kinda like Ripleys believe it or not. ??? I had to replace my Pinion Cup and Drive Shaft this past spring. (RUST) Still SCRATCHING my head as to why. Is it water that gets into the cup and causes this to happen? I do think maintaining the correct oil level in the pumpkin is very important.
|
|
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 06:55:59 PM by lee »
|
Logged
|
Time is not what is taken but what remains. C. Drewry 
|
|
|
PhredValk
|
 |
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2010, 09:55:11 PM » |
|
Sometimes this board gets a little scary. Since buying my I/S I've put 10K miles (US speedo) on her. I changed the oil today, and am getting ready to start looking at tires. When I get the rear wheel off (wish me luck) will all of this be visible? Or will I have to pull more stuff off the bike to check/clean all of this? I'm not that mechanically inclined (tho I surprise myself each time I try) and don't want to disassemble the entire machine each tire change. Someone said 10 minutes once the rear is off, and that wouldn't be bad. This true for a first timer? Fred.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. VRCCDS0237
|
|
|
Robert
|
 |
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2010, 04:20:31 AM » |
|
The hardest part is taking off the rear wheel taking off the diff is 4 nuts and its right there. The biggest pain is to put the diff back in because the drive shaft slides out of the universal that is attached to the engine at the other end. Sometimes the drive shaft slides back in other times it says no way so you have to play with it. Either way not a big deal and the total job is not hard. But yes you had better do this every time. No worries about changing the tire and greasing the splines its a job perfectly suited to beginners.
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
|
|
|
Robert
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2010, 04:26:43 AM » |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
|
|
|
98valk
|
 |
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2010, 04:31:52 AM » |
|
Never hurts to take a closer look: (SCRATCH HEAD) then look again.  The flange on the nut that holds the Pcup on only covers half of the holes. Red arrow indicates direction of rotation. There is only one lub pick up hole. Its drilled on an angle to pull in oil mist. Kinda like Ripleys believe it or not. ??? I had to replace my Pinion Cup and Drive Shaft this past spring. (RUST) Still SCRATCHING my head as to why. Is it water that gets into the cup and causes this to happen? I do think maintaining the correct oil level in the pumpkin is very important. Please every one, look at the assembly dwg in the manual, the nut doesn't attach to the end u point out, that end is inside the races and oil seal and doesn't move once installed. The drive shaft goes into the large end which must be grease and a grease seal installed. There is no mist from the gears. The nut goes inside of the large end. If the drawings in the tech manual are wrong then I'm wrong and that is the only way, but I doubt that they are.
|
|
|
Logged
|
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed 1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other." John Adams 10/11/1798
|
|
|
98valk
|
 |
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2010, 04:40:50 AM » |
|
Looked at your great pics. Now I know that the holes on the pinion joint are weep holes to let one know how bad the oil seal is wearing out. If there is gear oil migration as u show then the oil seal is going to need replacement. The holes are not for lubing the splines. These are weep holes like on the bottom of water pumps.
|
|
|
Logged
|
1998 Std/Tourer, 2007 DR200SE, 1981 CB900C 10speed 1973 Duster 340 4-speed rare A/C, 2001 F250 4x4 7.3L, 6sp
"Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the goverment of any other." John Adams 10/11/1798
|
|
|
lee
|
 |
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2010, 04:56:09 AM » |
|
You mean this? Could it be the other end?  If you have an oil seal that covers any part of these holes than you got problems. Correction: I have already said the flange on the nut covers about half of each hole.
|
|
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 05:00:00 AM by lee »
|
Logged
|
Time is not what is taken but what remains. C. Drewry 
|
|
|
MikeT
|
 |
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2010, 05:31:09 AM » |
|
Nice picture of the turned down end showing all the holes I was trying to describe in my previous posts. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say. My oil seal moved out of position and covered what you have labels as the "oil pickup hole". As for how this is supposed to work in the whole scheme of things, only the engineer at Honda that designed it could tell us for certain.
Mike
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
MikeT
|
 |
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2010, 05:34:33 AM » |
|
I believe 1 move smack and the horse will be dead.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Robert
|
 |
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2010, 05:38:41 AM » |
|
Lee are you sure about the direction of rotation of the drive shaft? I played with the rear with different greases and oil levels in the pinion cup and what I found was the oil from the rear didn't do such a good job of getting to the cup but the grease in the cup did a real good job of getting in the rear oil. I also wonder has anyone used moly in the rear end oil?
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
|
|
|
Daniel Meyer
Member
    
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
|
 |
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2010, 05:58:50 AM » |
|
Looked at your great pics. Now I know that the holes on the pinion joint are weep holes to let one know how bad the oil seal is wearing out. If there is gear oil migration as u show then the oil seal is going to need replacement. The holes are not for lubing the splines. These are weep holes like on the bottom of water pumps.
You are incorrect. I don't mean to be rude, but you are dead wrong. A new, correctly assembled rear end, if turned pinion cup down, will dump all the oil out of through the pinion cup. The spline part of pinion joint is "inside" the rear end lube area when correctly assembled. The oil seal (part #31 on the fiche) rides above the holes and ON the cup, (there is no seal riding on the gearshaft) and the seal on the driveshaft inside the cup is the final barrier. Part #31 is the one and only seal in the nose of the case, in it rides ON the pinion cup, with the drilled holes remaining inside the unit.  This pic is correct. 
|
|
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 06:09:30 AM by Daniel Meyer »
|
Logged
|
CUAgain, Daniel Meyer 
|
|
|
lee
|
 |
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2010, 06:10:33 AM » |
|
YES on direction of rotation. Looking at front of drive: pcup turns CW which then turns ring gear CCW.   Oil mist must pass through pinion bearing to get to pick up hole. When you pull the drive shaft out of the cup and the grease you put in last time looks real wet then everything is working fine. I went with belray water prof grease last time. I'm thinking water gets into the cup and can't get out is what is causing the problems. Would drilling a small drain hole in bottom of swing arm help? 
|
|
|
Logged
|
Time is not what is taken but what remains. C. Drewry 
|
|
|
Daniel Meyer
Member
    
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
|
 |
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2010, 06:38:55 AM » |
|
YES on direction of rotation. Looking at front of drive: pcup turns CW which then turns ring gear CCW.   Oil mist must pass through pinion bearing to get to pick up hole. When you pull the drive shaft out of the cup and the grease you put in last time looks real wet then everything is working fine. I went with belray water prof grease last time. I'm thinking water gets into the cup and can't get out is what is causing the problems. Would drilling a small drain hole in bottom of swing arm help?  Great drawing! Really shows how it goes together. What really causes the problem is that the thing spins all the dust/crud/moisture that gets in through the case vent out eventually and it builds up in the pinion cup, particularly in the "cup" on the end of the driveshaft. Eventually it clogs the weep/oil holes and everything will dry out and begin to wear. A lot may depend on the conditions you ride in and how often you change the rear end oil (or if you used paste assembling it, which is incorrect). I pull mine every tire change and they tend to be pretty clean so probably every other time would be enough...but in only adds a very few minutes to check it out.
|
|
|
Logged
|
CUAgain, Daniel Meyer 
|
|
|
|