msf question

[csj]

A buddy just got into the M'cycle life this year, I've had some kinda
bike for 3 decades. He's on the graduated licensing program,
now into the second of three stages.

We were out on a run a few weeks back. When we stopped
a few times for a break, I'd see him stop his bike, then sit there fiddling with the clutch/shifter trying to get to neutral. He did this every time we stopped, took him near 30 seconds to find neutral, (new bike) then he'd dismount.

I eventually asked him, 'why not just shut it off in 1st gear?'
'When you go to start, just pull in the clutch and start.'
He said the msf people stressed find neutral first, then turn off.
Leave it in neutral. Also start in neutral.   Huh?
I was about to correct this mistake, but then thought, maybe that's
the way it's being taught today, my input could cause nothing but confusion. I know there's a couple instructors on this board.
Thoughts please.

[Mo Lee]

Not sure why but I always park mine in neutral. Maybe that is where I learned it back in 1982.

[Sharkey]

Regina just went through Beginner MSF. Her instructer had her put the bike in first gear, then shut it off. He said so the bike wont roll when parked.

[NITRO]

I went through the class in '07 and my wife did last year. Neither of us (two different instructors) were told to put the bike in gear when turning it off. I've used neutral for every dirt bike and road cycle I've had.

[Jess Tolbirt]

i leave mine in 1st to keep it from rolling,,,

[AussieValk]

I'm no instructor but I always have parked in neutral. Common sense tells me to put it in gear if I stop on a hill, but then when I start it again I do it in neutral.

[Valker]

Been teaching the MSF courses for 18 years now. They have NEVER told anyone to find neutral before shutting down. The opposite is actually true.

[Gryphon Rider]

I'm not MSF, but my school teaches to put the bike in neutral before shutting down and to confirm neutral before starting.  This is not a hill to die on, but works best for most bikes/riders most of the time.  This practice is especially important for our students who have difficulty remembering to pull in the clutch when starting, or not pulling it in all the way.  Even if the clutch is pulled in all the way, a wet clutch with cold and stiff oil in it often jolts the bike forward a little when put in gear, or when the engine is started while in gear.  This jolt, along with the bigger jolt of starting the bike in gear with the clutch lever not fully in, can cause an unsuspecting student to drop the bike, especially if they are 5'1", 105 lbs, and tippy-toeing it.

I personally park my Valk in neutral so I can start it and warm it up without sitting on it.

[Valkahuna]

I'm no instructor but I always have parked in neutral. Common sense tells me to put it in gear if I stop on a hill, but then when I start it again I do it in neutral.

+1.

[R J]

I was trying to remember what they taught us at the Academy way back when.

It must of been neutral, cause I always find it on the way down when parking.  I find it while the bike is still rolling.   If I'm on any kind of a hill, it will be in 1st.

At a stop light, I end up in 1st just before it quits rolling.    That way if I have to make a fast exit, all I do is jab the throttle and pop the clutch.

[Colin]

I was trying to remember what they taught us at the Academy way back when.

It must of been neutral, cause I always find it on the way down when parking.  I find it while the bike is still rolling.   If I'm on any kind of a hill, it will be in 1st.

At a stop light, I end up in 1st just before it quits rolling.    That way if I have to make a fast exit, all I do is jab the throttle and pop the clutch.

That's what I was taught to on all my riding courses in the UK with our Driving School. It is also what is taught in the Roadcraft manual which is used as the 'bible' for car and bike riding in the UK.

[Dubsvalk]

On the first day of the beginners course the coaches instruct their students to be in neutral for the safety of everyone in the class, and to raise their left hands to show they are in neutral.  The second day, after they confirm everyone is riding safely, they instruct them to be in first gear when stopping and parking the bike and to shift to neutral before starting it because it is easier on the clutch to start in neutral.  As an MSF instructor, this was how I was taught to coach the BRC and it is how I teach my students.  My humble response.
Bernie

[Big Rig]

I too take the class in 82 in Pa and they did mention to park in neutral unless on a hill. My brother and sister in law started riding a couple of years ago and took the same class with one of the same instructors...they said they were never told. So I wonder is they flip flop on the issue during training.

 I am always in gear when parked.

[Smitty W.S.]

Good question, csj.

I've often wondered if I was doing things correctly because I've had no formal training.  I do with my bike as I do with my manual transmission car -- if I'm on any kind of incline I leave it in gear.  However, I always shift into neutral while keeping the clutch and brake engaged before turning over the engine.

If I'm facing down a hill, I turn my wheel to the extreme right (curb side).  If I'm facing up a hill, I turn my wheel to the extreme left.  The idea being, if the vehicle does begin to move the curb will hopefully stop the vehicle.

[alph]

I went through the class in '07 and my wife did last year. Neither of us (two different instructors) were told to put the bike in gear when turning it off. I've used neutral for every dirt bike and road cycle I've had.

Been teaching the MSF courses for 18 years now. They have NEVER told anyone to find neutral before shutting down. The opposite is actually true.

They also tell you not to speed, always were a helmet, keep both hands on the handle bars… et cetera, et cetera!  Do what ever you want!  If you park it in neutral, and leave it there, great!  The world will keep turning!! 

I personally always leave my bike in neutral, except if I’m on an incline. 

I wish that they would change the transmission so that “all the way down” is neutral, and that you don’t have to work to find it!!

[Robert]

I took the course and the only thing about first and neutral was when at a light always leave it in first just in case you have to get away fast. I alway put it in neutral though I know the Valk has a few safety features but I would hate to get on another bike and start it in gear.  

[Ice]

I used to be an MSF instructor and with the first vs neutral, I think it is actually the instructors opinion more than anything else. But for example my wife just finished the MSF course in March and her instructor had her put it in neutral whenever stopped, and that was actually good for her, seeing that her bike will not start at all with it in gear, even with the clutch in, so neutral it is for her. Out of habbit I do the same thing, I cannot remeber why I started, maybe because I satrted on kickstart models.....

Yuri

[MP]

I do not think today it matters much.  I use neutral, except on inclines.  I have to force myself to put it in first with my sidecar, because it will roll MUCH easier, as there is no sidestand to stop it.

I think putting in neutral comes from the old school, like when I learned, as there were no safety switches, and I used a kickstarter.

Best NOT to be in first when starting then!  LOL

So, it became a habit.

MP

[Mo Lee]

Come to think of it I took the course on a kick start Honda 350SL so maybe that is where I learned to park in neutral. I also leave it in gear on an incline although I try to park where it is level.

[Valker]

The original question was what is taught in the MSF courses, not necessarily what experienced riders do.
You can check out official MSF stuff at MSF-USA.org You can also read their BRC students' manual.