Dear US Citizens, I must sadly inform you (not motorcyle related)

[Gryphon Rider]

I love visiting the United States.  I've been to Sturgis twice, Inzane (VI in Colorado) once, and to many other US destinations between Washington, California, Texas, Florida, and Indiana on motorcyle and in cages of various types.  I've flown to or through Denver, Houston, Miami, San Diego, Laughlin, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta.

Dear US Citizens,

In view of current TSA screening procedures in airports, I will certainly not allow my children to fly to or through a US airport until they are 18 years old and capable of making their own decision about whether they feel it is worth it to be violated by naked body scanners or intimate groping.  If this concerns you, please let your officials and governments know, as foreigners such as myself can only vote with our feet and pocketbooks.

Sincerely,
Gryphon Rider

[czuch]

I drive.
I flew in the Navy and have no desire to do it ever again.
Too much to see anyway.
And I'm with ya there Bro.

[Westernbiker]

I understand and do not blame you one bit. I will ONLY fly if I have to and even then will try to find a way around it.

[solo1]

I do not fly but I can sure understand , Gryphon Rider.

After reading your post, I emailed  my senator asking him to bring this problem to the Senate.  It is a clear, to me, violation, of the 4th Amendment  quoting in part:  The right of the People to be secure from unreasonable searches and seizures".

Unfortunately, my Senator, will probably be too busy to pay attention to me. His time to leave, is coming.

[DIGGER]

I love visiting the United States.  I've been to Sturgis twice, Inzane (VI in Colorado) once, and to many other US destinations between Washington, California, Texas, Florida, and Indiana on motorcyle and in cages of various types.  I've flown to or through Denver, Houston, Miami, San Diego, Laughlin, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta.

Dear US Citizens,

In view of current TSA screening procedures in airports, I will certainly not allow my children to fly to or through a US airport until they are 18 years old and capable of maing their own decision about whether they feel it is worth it to be violated by naked body scanners or intimate groping.  If this concerns you, please let your officials and governments know, as foreigners such as myself can only vote with my feet and pocketbook.

Sincerely,
Gryphon Rider

Sorry dude.    I think we have done well to avoid catastrophic terrorist air traffic since 911.   However sooner or later one will get through.   They can pat me and my wife down and x ray us if it makes for a safer flight.    Hate to see you have to use your feet.....and certainly we could use your money.....but safety has to come first.    I rest easier knowing the flight my wife and grandkids are on is safer.   If you got nothing to hide getting patted down is not too high a price to pay.  JMO.

[Bobbo]

I do not fly but I can sure understand , Gryphon Rider.

After reading your post, I emailed  my senator asking him to bring this problem to the Senate.  It is a clear, to me, violation, of the 4th Amendment  quoting in part:  The right of the People to be secure from unreasonable searches and seizures".

Unfortunately, my Senator, will probably be too busy to pay attention to me. His time to leave, is coming.

I don’t agree that it is a clear violation of our 4th amendment rights.  Air travel, much like driving a car, is considered a privilege.  Any privilege can be revoked.  Likewise, you have to follow the rules to receive the privilege.  If you disapprove of the new intrusive searches, you may simply opt out of using air travel.

[Daniel Meyer]

.....but safety has to come first.

Sexual assault does nothing for safety.

[Jeff K]

I love visiting the United States.  I've been to Sturgis twice, Inzane (VI in Colorado) once, and to many other US destinations between Washington, California, Texas, Florida, and Indiana on motorcyle and in cages of various types.  I've flown to or through Denver, Houston, Miami, San Diego, Laughlin, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta.

Dear US Citizens,

In view of current TSA screening procedures in airports, I will certainly not allow my children to fly to or through a US airport until they are 18 years old and capable of maing their own decision about whether they feel it is worth it to be violated by naked body scanners or intimate groping.  If this concerns you, please let your officials and governments know, as foreigners such as myself can only vote with my feet and pocketbook.

Sincerely,
Gryphon Rider

Sorry dude.    I think we have done well to avoid catastrophic terrorist air traffic since 911.   However sooner or later one will get through.   They can pat me and my wife down and x ray us if it makes for a safer flight.    Hate to see you have to use your feet.....and certainly we could use your money.....but safety has to come first.    I rest easier knowing the flight my wife and grandkids are on is safer.   If you got nothing to hide getting patted down is not too high a price to pay.  JMO.

In all those years of scanning and pat downs have they ever found anything? Nope. So now we can up the ante and grab some boobies, and find the same amount of nothing. I just wonder how many fathers are going to allow ANYONE to feel up, or do a naked scan of their 13 year old daughter, in the name of airline safety?

[Jeff K]

I do not fly but I can sure understand , Gryphon Rider.

After reading your post, I emailed  my senator asking him to bring this problem to the Senate.  It is a clear, to me, violation, of the 4th Amendment  quoting in part:  The right of the People to be secure from unreasonable searches and seizures".

Unfortunately, my Senator, will probably be too busy to pay attention to me. His time to leave, is coming.

.

I don’t agree that it is a clear violation of our 4th amendment rights.  Air travel, much like driving a car, is considered a privilege.  Any privilege can be revoked.  Likewise, you have to follow the rules to receive the privilege.  If you disapprove of the new intrusive searches, you may simply opt out of using air travel.

I'd buy that line if it were the airlines that were making these rules and not the government.

[Billy]

Ron Paul apparently is concerned enough to introduce a  piece of legislation titled, American Traveler Dignity Act. Maybe the days of a big TSA guy groping your junk are numbered.

[Bobbo]

I'd buy that line if it were the airlines that were making these rules and not the government.

The government makes the rules for driving too, not the car manufacturers or taxi/bus companies. 

[Momz]

I've seen a few cute TSA women employees.
I think I would rather enjoy being groped by those girls,...even if I'm not traveling.
But that's just me.

[Garfield]

I've seen a few cute TSA women employees.
I think I would rather enjoy being groped by those girls,...even if I'm not traveling.
But that's just me.

[Serk]

Ron Paul apparently is concerned enough to introduce a  piece of legislation titled, American Traveler Dignity Act. Maybe the days of a big TSA guy groping your junk are numbered.

Once again, Ron Paul "gets it"...

Ron Paul Responds to TSA: Introduces 'American Traveler Dignity Act'	powered by Aeva

I know it's beyond cliche, but when government goons are allowed to grope us at will, OR use electronic surveillance to see us naked... The terrorists have won...

[Serk]

I've seen a few cute TSA women employees.
I think I would rather enjoy being groped by those girls,...even if I'm not traveling.
But that's just me.

You only get groped by a TSA person the same gender as yourself... Just sayin...

[Valker]

The folks screaming "safety" is worth it have obviously never thought about the fact that no airliner has been hijacked or blown up over US soil in a long time. The 9/11 guys didn't use bombs, guns, knives, or explosives to take the planes. NONE of them would have been stopped by the newest rules. So, where is this supposedly 'safer' procedure coming from.

[fudgie]

Well then you do not want to be arrested either.

Think carfully about being 'patted' down. Do you understand that if you fall, get into a car wreck, chest pain, etc, you will be 'patted' down by EMS? Its all down for your safety and to find injuries. Its done from infants to very old adults. Yes we look at your junk. Occasionally put a tube in your junk. Sure you can deny all of it but is against medical advice and if you dont want it done, dont call for help. Its all done in a professional manor. Trust me I've seen some stuff I didnt want to see! 

If you want to fly, get the scan/ search. I'm sure they are also done professionally and not done for pure enjoyment. We bitch on 9-12 how the hijackers got 'blades' on a plane thru security but bitch when we try to prevent it.

As far as the 4thA, I see no violation. Being patted down is not 'unreasonable'.

[3fan4life]

Sorry dude.    I think we have done well to avoid catastrophic terrorist air traffic since 911.   However sooner or later one will get through.   They can pat me and my wife down and x ray us if it makes for a safer flight.    Hate to see you have to use your feet.....and certainly we could use your money.....but safety has to come first.    I rest easier knowing the flight my wife and grandkids are on is safer.   If you got nothing to hide getting patted down is not too high a price to pay.  JMO.

This says it all.

Unfortunately way TOO MANY people don't understand this.

[six2go #152]

OK, I don't fly and have no intentions of doing so, this will probably never affect me, BUT, I don't think the scanners show the image of a nude body, like just removing clothing. Isn't the image more like a hologram? The network news should show an image of a person being scanned so the public could actually see what is happening rather than getting upset over nothing. Of course that would end the controversy and do away with sensational reporting.
If I'm incorrect about the scanned image please correct me. I'm just going by what I think I have heard on various newscasts.

[Serk]

OK, I don't fly and have no intentions of doing so, this will probably never affect me, BUT, I don't think the scanners show the image of a nude body, like just removing clothing. Isn't the image more like a hologram? The network news should show an image of a person being scanned so the public could actually see what is happening rather than getting upset over nothing. Of course that would end the controversy and do away with sensational reporting.
If I'm incorrect about the scanned image please correct me. I'm just going by what I think I have heard on various newscasts.

[bigvalkriefan]

I believe Benjamin Franklin said it best.

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

[Billy]

I for one could care less if anyone sees me naked. What about the radiation that's going through your body? Has the medical and testing records been opened for public study? No. We're just being told that it's safe and don't worry. Same thing the EPA told the people working at Ground Zero.

[Sludge]

Well, as I see it.  Its a no win situation.  See, if I were a bad guy with evil in my heart.  You can find ways to do it. You can ban all the things ya can think of but if you leave a hardware store and grocery store intact you will have ample supplies to make several types of improvised munitions.

Also, you can ban weapons or things that scare ya, and if you have evil in your heart you will find a way to do evil.  These excessive screening processes simply make a line.  Were I a bad guy, I would simply blow up the line waiting to be scanned to see if I had something to blow up the folks past that spot. 

Every time you pile folks up you make another target for mass murder.  This scanning thing is just overboard IMHO.  One of the guys that works for me was wearing bib overalls and went on a trip home to Iowa 2 weeks ago.  They strip searched him because the bibs set off the metal detector.  He should have been wanded and inspected.  Instead they do that.  The wand would have shown them that it was the metal clasps that were the problem.  However, common sense isnt all that common.

Heck, a determined man with a ball bat when intent on harm could kill several ppl quickly if he chose his attack properly.  Security is an illusion, and the theat to the population from an isolated bombing is remote and not even statistically significant.  The fear it generates however, causes a knee jerk reaction that is completely out of proportion to the threat.  Text messaging kills more folks in cars here in the US each year than all of the wood-be bombers could if they were successful with conventional explosives.

I believe Benjamin Franklin said it best.

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Old Ben was right IMHO.

My two cents ...

[Jabba]

Or... they could just let anyone on board with handguns, and issue special airplane "safe" ammo.  then sure... terrorists could get guns on board... but there would be 30 rednecks armed as well.

I've been patted down.  it ain't all that.  It's not a big deal fellas.  They are not groping your junk.  They are not feeling up your 13 year old daughter.  And they are not copping a feel on your Ol'Lady.  My Ol'Lady has an artificial hip and gets special treatment on EVERY flight.  She gets the scanner and the pat down.  It's not a big deal.

Everyone is making too much of a big deal out of stuff.

All that said... I don't like the gubermint in my life more than ABSOLUTELY necessary.

Jabba 

[DarkMeister]

Gotcha coming and going. If the porno-booth makes you change travel, but your flight overflies the US, like, say, Toronto to Cancun, here's an excerpt from today's stories:

"Beginning next year, Secure Flight would allow collection of the names, genders and birth dates of the approximately five million Canadians who fly through American airspace every year en route to destinations such as the Caribbean and Mexico — even though their planes don’t touch American soil.

Stoddart says Canadian passport information and itinerary details will also routinely be passed to the United States under the program.

The U.S. Transportation Security Administration plans to run the names against security watch lists."

I'm torn, like many people, between security and privacy. However, there have been many documented screw-ups with no-fly lists and such. Gah!

[fudgie]

I for one could care less if anyone sees me naked. What about the radiation that's going through your body? Has the medical and testing records been opened for public study? No. We're just being told that it's safe and don't worry. Same thing the EPA told the people working at Ground Zero.

I doubt its very much since they x-ray preg women.

[art]

why ride in a plane full of people breathing the same air an having colds an god know what else when you can ride your valk an have fun doing it.I will not fly anywhere I can't take my valk

[NCGhostrider]

I used to live on airplanes, glad I don't anymore.  It got to be too much time involvement to travel to destinations within a few hours.  I just drive now.  And before you say or think... I have been patted down, groped..you name it.  You fly enough times, it happens...I usually laugh about it.   I did ask one female to do it again...yes female...   She didn't think it was humerous...a few of us did..  If you want to take a digital x-ray of my fat a$$ and send it around the world...go for it.   HOWEVER.....

It may make you feel safer, but it just raises the level of attack to a new level.  I personally would rather face the terrorist(s) on the odd chance they would be on the plane with me, than the constant inconvenience and time involvment of getting thru our so called "enhanced" security.   I figure that me against the odd idiotic terrorist or two probably stands a chance.   I will steal his virgins or at least let him arrive to them in a slow tortured death.  Some of you prefer the feeling of safety in the hands of others to my preference.   What I see TSA catching are things that people forget or don't understand they shouldn't take.    I feel so much safer now that we don't have nail clippers on the planes. 

I imagine next we will have our orifices probed...laugh if you want, but this measure just raises the bar.  Next, we will be commenting on the size of the probes used to check said orifices.   I don't think the low power digital scanner will penetrate a pair of butt cheeks.  A true suicide bomber would probably not care how his body does the job.  Wait for it...   

We need to grow some "junk" and find a better way to stop the fear of flying terrorists.

[Gunslinger]

There is no violation of 4th amendment right here as you have the option to refuse the search/x-ray/pat down. It is your choice.

As Fudgie has already stated, they people responsible for performing these searches are most certainly not on the job with the hope or expectation of getting their jollies. I am also a paramedic and see far more of the human form on a daily basis than most could imagine. It is a clinical thing, I don't look at a patient and decide if they are attractive, unattractive, desirable or not. I am looking at signs of medical problems and injury patterns.

I don't know that I support the government forcing this type of thing upon us. I strongly feel that Ron Paul is correct in that we have many more damaging things to focus on, but do you feel violated when you have a medical exam? Are you offended when a doctor examines your breast for lumps which may be cancerous? Do you appeal to the Supreme Court when you are examined for a hernia? Do you claim sexual harassment when you receive an MRI? These exams are much more personal and invasive than this TSA exam.

Lets focus on some important things and just maybe if we ignore the focus of mainstream media for a few minutes they might switch to a really important topic?

[Robert]

I think there is enough murkiness in this to be a real question. First we get low res images ,if you save them which they said they couldn't do and invert them they are a snap shot naked no detail skipped. Next how did marshals wind up with scanned images and why are the machines begin sold by a former government employee who has a stake in the company? I pick my doctor and can question His morals as for paramedics I hopefully will be less inclined to need one and they are trained in medical issues and are usually responding to a tight situation medically. Not the usual ho hum day in tsa and Not a tsa employee that is basically a civil servant. One stop light is ok 20 stop lights on the way to work is a problem so it goes with exposure. Covered alot of ground here these are pretty much facts and questions that I have found just doing a quick search which anyone can do. I personally dont think this will significantly improve our safety and reminds me of the much touted war on drugs which has cost billions yielded little and given the government much more power.

[Valker]

You don't have the right to not get the new treatment. If they choose you for the grope, you are too far in to say "no".

[vanagon40]

Security is an illusion, and the [threat] to the population from an isolated bombing is remote and not even statistically significant.  The fear it generates however, causes a knee jerk reaction that is completely out of proportion to the threat.  Text messaging kills more folks in cars here in the US each year than all of the [would]-be bombers could if they were successful with conventional explosives.

[bassman]

I would feel a lot better if ALL, repeat ALL, of our leaders, Senators and Congressman (and women) including Pelosi, Napalitano, Reed, Holder, Biden, Obama etc. would lead by example and subject themselves to this identical scanning, in a public forum, regardless of whether they fly on public or government supplied aircraft each and EVERY time they fly.  "Good enough for the goose then good enough for the gander"

[G-Man]

I for one could care less if anyone sees me naked. What about the radiation that's going through your body? Has the medical and testing records been opened for public study? No. We're just being told that it's safe and don't worry. Same thing the EPA told the people working at Ground Zero.

Only jumping in for the medical viewpoint.

Women of reproductive age, and/or sexually active, shouldn't go through those scanning machines.  If they must fly, they should know when their last menstrual cycle began and limit the radiation exposure to the first 12 days of their cycle.  Airport and airline employees should not be doing this on a daily basis as a requirement to get to work.  The x-ray techs and radiologists hide behind lead aprons and walls in the hospital, but the TSA thinks it's just fine to subject travelers and employees to radiation on a daily basis???    

[Jabba]

why ride in a plane full of people breathing the same air an having colds an god know what else when you can ride your valk an have fun doing it.I will not fly anywhere I can't take my valk

Did you know that the newer planes, (Boeing 777 for example) use 100% outdoor air for their ventilation systems?  

As an HVAC designer, I found this very interesting.

Jabba

[Sludge]

Stephen Crowder has a good take on this as well. 

TSA, Naked People and My Junk!	powered by Aeva

[G-Man]

I for one could care less if anyone sees me naked. What about the radiation that's going through your body? Has the medical and testing records been opened for public study? No. We're just being told that it's safe and don't worry. Same thing the EPA told the people working at Ground Zero.

I doubt its very much since they x-ray preg women.

I wouldn't trust that for a second with my pregnant wife or daughter.

[Oldswimr]

One HUGE issue is that the TSA Agents themselves are inconsistent and many lack the professionalism to handle the resposibility of the pat down. Too many verified reports of inconsistent behavior and abuse by TSA Agents. And some images that were never supposed to have been saved were saved, and had to be released by the FOIA. This was the U.S. Marshalls, but it illustrates that the images CAN be stored, and sent digitally. You can quibble about right and wrong, 4th Ammendment issues, ad infinitum, until the agency tasked with carrying out these duties is doing it consistently and responsibly, and the administrators of said programs are honest, it's not worth it. I give it less than 3 months before changes ae made. Considerations are already being made for flight crews, I think Orlando is considering using a contract agency and giving TSA the boot. (Correct me if I'm wrong about the particular city..)
I fly enough to have dealt with obnoxious overbearing TSA agents. They are usually the exception, not the rule, but until these new procedures came into play it was bearable. Now they are givien too much freedom to interprit their responsibility with no possibility by any offended party to really prosecute an abuser.
In short, screw it. No where I need to go so bad that I can't drive or take a train...
 I've contacted my elected officials and voiced my concerns. And as far as keeping us safe, if you follow TSA's claims, nothing has been substantiated as far as what they have accomplished with the new procedures. And if you want to believe that Chertoff has had no profit from DHS purchasing these scanners, just follow the money and his support from the inception of the program..

[SANDMAN5]

Since Reps established it, and if only Reps were mentioned, then it wouldn’t be ironic, would it?

As usual, you skipped the question. It wasn't about being "ironic" at all. But that doesn't matter
does it? You seldom (if ever) answer a direct question...here, anyway. Moving on.

[Jeff K]

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