Crack Down on M/C Gang .................

[bsnicely]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512096,00.html

[Tonysax]

Does a group of dragons make a gang???

[Big IV]

Gangs are denoted by criminal intent.
So we cool.

[CISE]

Yea .. none of us have any criminal intents ... (Speed limits are suggestions not laws aren't they?)

[Jabba]

Is owning body armor a crime?  Maybe it's because he's a felon, but that is still a crappy deal if you ask me.  Not that I think he's a good guy or anything, but the whole issue that body armor is illegal for ANYONE is preposterous to me.


Jabba

[3fan4life]

DETROIT —  Federal authorities have accused the Michigan-based president of a national motorcycle club of drug trafficking and unlawfully possessing body armor.

The U.S. attorney's office in Detroit said Wednesday 54-year-old Jeff G. Smith of Mount Clemens was indicted on a charge of possessing two body armor vests.


I wondered about this as well.

I had never heard anything about restrictions on the sale of body armor.

According to WIKIPEDIA:
Body armor is legal in most countries, one exception being Australia, where body armor has been prohibited for some time.

United States law restricts possession of body armor for convicted violent felons. Many US states also have penalties for possession or use of body armor by felons.

[Big IV]

convicted felons (him it said) makes sense. well not really. but that explains why they arrested him for it anyway.

[~ Timbrwolf]

...he,s a convicted felon...which law dictates....cant own body armor...


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009904020384

[Chrisj CMA]

There is body armor and then there is BODY ARMOR.........I believe its a crime for anyone outside the government/military to own the top military armor, not so much as its illegal to have as much as the illegal dealings or connections one must have to get such equipment, so if you have it, its stolen basically

[Jean the Black Wolf]

Does a group of dragons make a gang???

or a group of wolves ?
 

[Madmike]

They are having lots of problems in Vancouver, BC with gang related issues.  Lots of the gang  guys had armoured vehicles that they were using and the police recently made them take them off the roads as unsafe because the modifications made the vehicles so heavy that hey exceeded their design capacities.  They have also been seizing body armour from these guys.

[fudgie]

"Charged with using a telephone for drug trafficking"  WTF?  ???

[Momz]

BODY ARMOR in this State (MI) can be anything from the suits worn by bomb squad personnel to Kevlar underwear. However that also includes typical motorcycle protective gear: Leather or Cordura jackets with hard pads at the elbows, shoulders, kidney areas, etc. It also covers things like "Dragon Jeans" and "Aerostich" riding suits.

I have talked to several members of that club and they said that the Feds busted them on some absurd and trumped up charges on a technicality that was based on the definition of motorcycle protective wear as "Body Armor".

The Feds and the MI State Police are attempting to assault motorcyclists from all fronts.
The Disicples are a motorcycle club. A gang is a group of persons that do not have a set of rules that self governs actions of that group. A club (AMA or Outlaw) has both Bylaws and a Constitution and these are used to control the actions of the members of the club (supposedly).

And here in S.E. MI all clubs must belong to either the Confederation of Clubs (non-AMA) or to the Detroit Area Association of Clubs (mostly AMA). These are self governing bodies that were formed to keep the peace among the clubs and to keep the Law off of their backs. But of course the so-called law is always looking to find some kind of boogey-man, and bikers are an easy target.

[fudgie]

Is owning body armor a crime?  Maybe it's because he's a felon, but that is still a crappy deal if you ask me.  Not that I think he's a good guy or anything, but the whole issue that body armor is illegal for ANYONE is preposterous to me.


Jabba

I agree Jabba. Illeagal to protect yourself? Hmmmm.... There are Medics in Ft Wayne that wear vests when they work the streets. Boy wait till I call the Feds! 

[fudgie]

BODY ARMOR in this State (MI) can be anything from the suits worn by bomb squad personnel to Kevlar underwear. However that also includes typical motorcycle protective gear: Leather or Cordura jackets with hard pads at the elbows, shoulders, kidney areas, etc. It also covers things like "Dragon Jeans" and "Aerostich" riding suits.

I have talked to several members of that club and they said that the Feds busted them on some absurd and trumped up charges on a technicality that was based on the definition of motorcycle protective wear as "Body Armor".

The Feds and the MI State Police are attempting to assault motorcyclists from all fronts.
The Disicples are a motorcycle club. A gang is a group of persons that do not have a set of rules that self governs actions of that group. A club (AMA or Outlaw) has both Bylaws and a Constitution and these are used to control the actions of the members of the club (supposedly).

And here in S.E. MI all clubs must belong to either the Confederation of Clubs (non-AMA) or to the Detroit Area Association of Clubs (mostly AMA). These are self governing bodies that were formed to keep the peace among the clubs and to keep the Law off of their backs. But of course the so-called law is always looking to find some kind of boogey-man, and bikers are an easy target.

[Jabba]

And here in S.E. MI all clubs must belong to either the Confederation of Clubs (non-AMA) or to the Detroit Area Association of Clubs (mostly AMA).

Who enforces THAT rule?

Jabba

[Duffy]

So Draggin Jeans are considered body armor? Hmmmm... I better check Georgia law. 

[Momz]

These are self governing groups. If they don't belong,....the other clubs will see that they WILL COMPLY!
Period!

[Big IV]

Self-governing
NC I believe has a 'be recognized' law too. Many states do to help keep an eye on the outlaw population.


Fudgie,
They are using the telephones to make it an interstate crime which falls under federal jurisdiction.


Ft Wayne Medics should be fine in body armor in all states because they are by definition non-felons. Most EMS squads weed out the felons. Although a lot of minimum security prisons teach first aid and have certification classes in hopes of making their 'guests' more employable when they come back into the real world.

[Jabba]

These are self governing groups. If they don't belong,....the other clubs will see that they WILL COMPLY!
Period!

That right there indicates to me that they ARE law breakers.  If they are willing to intimidate, physically assault, or coerce others they deserve to go to jail IMO.

And before you say it... you're right.  I just don't understand.  It's a buch of jack ass thugs breaking the law.  Period.  If it's that way... they DESERVE to have the LAW on their ass.

JMHO.

Jabba 

[Momz]

Even this club has people that break or have broken laws.

I know of at least two VRCC members in MI that have felony records.
 
Do you believe that the Feds (Gestapo) have a right to monitor your family because some member in another state, county, or town may have done, or is doing something that may (or may not) be illegal?

I say if you can catch a felon in the act, then he deserves what is coming to him. Intimidation and trumped-up charges are the lowest form of justice and law enforcement.

[woody]

Down here in aussie land its illegal to own or wear bullet proof vests or any other (weapon grade) body armour.
Its also Illegal to carry a knife, own a gun (unless you belong to a gun club) or more recently, belong to a bike gang. We is overgoverened to death. You guys have it good, we dont even have a bill of rights to protect us. Viva la revolution!!!!. Guy Faulks had the right idea way back when, too bad he failed.

[Bagger John - #3785]

Even this club has people that break or have broken laws.

Guilty as charged - of excessive speed and undue hooliganism...

[junior]

is there a minimun before we can be called outlaws?

[fudgie]

is there a minimun before we can be called outlaws?

Is the VRCC a AMA club?

[Momz]

I believe the "legal terminolgy" for the VRCC is called an "End User Group". This means that it is an organization that is based on the use of a product (or products) of a manufacturing company. The Harley Owners Group (HOG) is indeed an EUG with the direct support of the Harley Davison Corporation. The VRCC however has no corporate support from Honda, but we do have various vendor support.

But we are not (also HOG, Star Riders, ROK, RAT, etc) a true club in the sense of being an M/C in both the definitions of the AMA or in the outlaw terms. Both AMA and non-AMA (outlaw) clubs have constitutions and bylaws that have to be adhered to. These rules are to insure that there is chain of command, continual sustained growth, a continual monetary profit (dues/fines). Without leadership, growth, and money a club will not survive.

Yet a non-profit organization (or EUG) such as ours can continue as it is comprised of individuals that volanteer their time to run and monitor the website. We also have dedicated volanteers to organize rallys and rides. And the money that is taken in is not used for club profits, rather it is donated to various charities.

However individual VRCC chapters could be be AMA sanctioned. To get an AMA sanction there must be a minimum of ten current AMA members within the chapter. The chapter must obtain a menbership application and decide from three choices of membership (social, competition, or event promotions), submit a list of officers and AMA members, two letters of a recommendation from local businesses (or charities), a copy of the chapter by-laws and constitution, and a sanction fee (believe it is still $35.00). The chapter would then receive a Charter and charter number that should be promenently displayed at meetings and events. Having a Charter allows the sanctioned chapter to purchace event insurance at a greatly discounted price. The charter chapter can also promote and attract a wider range of motorcyclists as there are many AMA riders that run in those events for the sole purpose of obtaining "District Points". The riders with the largest total of event points at the conclusion of that season are eligible for trophys, prizes, and other recognition at the end of that year.

[fudgie]

I believe the "legal terminolgy" for the VRCC is called an "End User Group". This means that it is an organization that is based on the use of a product (or products) of a manufacturing company. The Harley Owners Group (HOG) is indeed an EUG with the direct support of the Harley Davison Corporation. The VRCC however has no corporate support from Honda, but we do have various vendor support.

But we are not (also HOG, Star Riders, ROK, RAT, etc) a true club in the sense of being an M/C in both the definitions of the AMA or in the outlaw terms. Both AMA and non-AMA (outlaw) clubs have constitutions and bylaws that have to be adhered to. These rules are to insure that there is chain of command, continual sustained growth, a continual monetary profit (dues/fines). Without leadership, growth, and money a club will not survive.

Yet a non-profit organization (or EUG) such as ours can continue as it is comprised of individuals that volanteer their time to run and monitor the website. We also have dedicated volanteers to organize rallys and rides. And the money that is taken in is not used for club profits, rather it is donated to various charities.

However individual VRCC chapters could be be AMA sanctioned. To get an AMA sanction there must be a minimum of ten current AMA members within the chapter. The chapter must obtain a menbership application and decide from three choices of membership (social, competition, or event promotions), submit a list of officers and AMA members, two letters of a recommendation from local businesses (or charities), a copy of the chapter by-laws and constitution, and a sanction fee (believe it is still $35.00). The chapter would then receive a Charter and charter number that should be promenently displayed at meetings and events. Having a Charter allows the sanctioned chapter to purchace event insurance at a greatly discounted price. The charter chapter can also promote and attract a wider range of motorcyclists as there are many AMA riders that run in those events for the sole purpose of obtaining "District Points". The riders with the largest total of event points at the conclusion of that season are eligible for trophys, prizes, and other recognition at the end of that year.

Wow thx! Never heard of a EUG. Thx!

[Black Pearl's Captain]

I believe the "legal terminolgy" for the VRCC is ...

Hold up, we are still talking from a M/C groups point of view right? Not much "Legal" about what they say so I could care less about their rules for others clubs.

Why don't you have the same amount of esteem for the laws of the USA as you do a bunch of hoodlom lowlife MC "clubbers" laws?

I'm with Jabba, hang em high.

Raymond

[Momz]

Illegal M/C gangs? It is not illegal to  belong to any club, both AMA and non-AMA (outlaw).  The Feds cannot make any organization illegal. However there may be members that are felons within any club or organization. Does that make that club or organization suspect or are the felons within the organization suspect?

As I've said before; in MI there are VRCC members with criminal records. This is a free club, we do not have background checks, so does this make the club suspect?

Do not let "symantics" used by the media and the police cloud your perceptions. If anyone is confused as to what is legal or illegal, then get involved in a motorcycle rights organization such as the AMA, ABATE,or the MRF. If you have concerns about gun rights, you would contact the NRF, wouldn't you?

[Jabba]

My only point was... if these "club" officials came and enforced compliance with their rules thru physical force and/or intimidation, as you claimed would surely happen, that tells me they ARE law breakers, whether or not they have been conviceted of a felony.

I don't go out of my way to look for trouble... I expect others to not go out of their way to bring me any.  But... that said... I am not afraid to end said trouble that comes looking for me either.

Jabba