Clutch fluid change out problem....

[Sonny]

Working close to the same issue. Clutch felt fine but fluid was dark.  Everyone says it's past time to change it. I have apparently made a bad mistake.  I drained the master cylinder and the line. Thinking all would work just like putting it together with new parts.  I have pumped almost 2-3rds of a bottle of brake fluid. Have no clutch tention at all!  I'm getting no air from the bleeder, just fluid.  Still no clutch!

Ricky-D

I drained the line from the bottom along with the master cylinder.
No I have installed a speed bleeder.  All is original parts. ???

[Warlock]

Not uncommon. Just pull your clutch lever in and tie it and leave it over night. This will let any air out. Had to do this to mine.
David

[5_19]

Working close to the same issue. Clutch felt fine but fluid was dark.  Everyone says it's past time to change it. I have apparently made a bad mistake.  I drained the master cylinder and the line. Thinking all would work just like putting it together with new parts.  I have pumped almost 2-3rds of a bottle of brake fluid. Have no clutch tention at all!  I'm getting no air from the bleeder, just fluid.  Still no clutch!

Ricky-D

I drained the line from the bottom along with the master cylinder.
No I have installed a speed bleeder.  All is original parts. ???

If you completely drained the master cylinder without adding fluid there is a good likely good that you have a pocket of air trapped up high close to the master cylinder. If letting it sit overnight won't help you may need to use vacuum or loosen some fitting to purge the air out.

You made the right decision , maybe not the best  procedure! If it worked before it will work again only better.
 TJ

[Ricky-D]

Ok, you "drained the master cylinder and the line" I wonder how you did this. Maybe by loosening the banjo on the clutch slave cylinder. There is no drain on the slave cylinder.

The fact that you are getting fluid from the bleeder means that you are pumping fluid.

I agree with the others that you have a big air bubble in the line and it is staying in the line and not being pumped down to the slave due to the limited amount of fluid being pumped by the master cylinder.

Getting a bubble out of the line can be a frustrating experience due to the small apertures in the master cylinder.

You can take the line loose at the banjo on the master cylinder and attempt to fill the line at that point.

Working the lever and pumping fluid as you describe will continue doing what you have already been doing, namely pumping more fluid out the bleeder.

When you work the lever, what you should be looking for is a bubble to appear in the reservoir and rise to the surface. Experimenting with the way you pump, the length of the pump stroke, the speed of the release of the lever, the amount you pump will all become a factor in allowing the bubbles to rise into the reservoir bowl.

When you discover the correct combination you will be on the way to getting back the clutch.

I've never tried tying the lever down so I cannot comment on this approach, but the same applies in that you are looking for bubbles to rise to the surface in the reservoir.

If you do take a banjo loose you should replace the crush washers with new, to avoid leaks and over torquing the banjo bolt.

***

[9Ball]

This is what I've done, especially with bleeding new lines.

Get a large syringe (you can get these free from your veterinarian if you ask nicely) and a piece of tubing (surgical tubing is best but tygon will work OK).  These are irrigation-type syringes and not needle-type syringes, so they have a tapered shaft that you can slide the tubing on until it is snug.

Install the original bleeder.  You can re-install the speedbleeder after things are working again.

Fill the syringe with brake fluid and bleed all the excess air out of the tubing.  Loosen the bleeder just enough to allow fluid the flow when the plunger is pushed on the syringe and attach the tubing to the bleeder.  Force the fluid from the syringe into the bleeder and back into the master cylinder.  Work slowly so you don't blow off the tubing and make a mess.  Wrapping a rag loosely around the connections will catch anything if it does come apart.

Keep bleeding backwards and you'll see the air bubbles entering the master cylinder.  Just make sure there is enough free space in the MC so it doesn't overflow.  Once the air bubbles stop, close the bleeder screw finger tight.  Remove the syringe/tubing and re-install the speedbleeder.

Now you can work the speedbleeder to remove any air introduced when you swapped out the bleeder for the SB.

This should take care of your problem.  Test the resistance, then add fluid and button everything up...

[Hoghead]

Make sure your master cylinder is level. On my v65 if you have it on the sidestand it will trap a bubble in the MC. Of course you know how I know this.  

[Sonny]

I will check and see if tying the clutch lever to the grip helped when I get back home.  I tried different ways of pumping the lever last night no progress yet. If tie off does not work will remove banjo bolt on MC and see if that helps.  Do not have a speed bleeder.

[Bone]

Our local bike shop ties off the levers. I asked why the first time I saw the bikes.
I've never had one the Mity Vac couldn't bleed.

[9Ball]

I will check and see if tying the clutch lever to the grip helped when I get back home.  I tried different ways of pumping the lever last night no progress yet. If tie off does not work will remove banjo bolt on MC and see if that helps.  Do not have a speed bleeder.

Regrding my reply, the procedure will work regardless of the type of bleeder you have...I thought you said you were using speedbleeders...I re-read your post more carefully and you were clear.  My bad.

Purging the air by pushing the fluid upwards will solve your problem.  This method works everytime.  I've put new lines on 2 different bikes this past year and dry lines are really tough to get all the air out.  As the above poster mentioned, the Mityvac will work everytime too, but the syringe method is a whole lot cheaper (syringes are free at my local veterinarian and a 1 foot piece of tubing is maybe a half buck at the hardware store) unless you want to buy a new tool.

I would be surprised if the lever trick will work if you let the MC run dry.  My experience is that tying the lever works well for smaller bubbles trapped in the fluid, not so much for a large bubble trapped at the fittings.  It is worth trying however and may work.

If you need a syringe, I could mail you one but it will take a few days to get there.

[Sonny]

Thanks to all......

Tied the lever back against the grip left it for a couple days. No change so I started squeezing the lever and watching for bubbles. Took about 20 minutes to get them all out.

Clutch is AOK !

[Bone]

Thank you for the update.
Those bubbles can really hide and drive us over the edge.

[9Ball]

the one problem I've read about on here over the years, and it may be urban legend-type paranoia, but when using the lever repeatedly over a long period of time you have to be careful NOT to allow the lever to travel all the way to the grip.  Some have said this over-travel puts stress on the piston and rubber components and can cause premature failure or leaks of the master cylinder.  These parts are easy enough to replace, but I sure wouldn't want to need brakes and have a hydraulic failure.

Don't know if this is true, but since reading this I always make sure that I don't squeeze the levers all the way to the grip when bleeding the lines.

Glad you got it sorted.

[Bobbo]

the one problem I've read about on here over the years, and it may be urban legend-type paranoia, but when using the lever repeatedly over a long period of time you have to be careful NOT to allow the lever to travel all the way to the grip.  Some have said this over-travel puts stress on the piston and rubber components and can cause premature failure or leaks of the master cylinder.  These parts are easy enough to replace, but I sure wouldn't want to need brakes and have a hydraulic failure.

Don't know if this is true, but since reading this I always make sure that I don't squeeze the levers all the way to the grip when bleeding the lines.

Glad you got it sorted.

What you are describing is not an urban legend, but good advice…  Except it is usually suggested only for brakes and other limited travel hydraulic cylinders.  The theory is that since brake master cylinders only move part of the travel in normal operation, dirt and crud, as well as a ridge will build up past the normal travel.  If you’re pumping the cylinder to bleed it, and travel into the crud, you will damage the cup, or at least cover it with crud, which will cause it to fail.  On a full travel cylinder like the clutch, this is less likely to happen.  I try to pressure or vacuum bleed all brake and clutch lines instead of pumping.  If the master cylinder is dry, you may need to bench bleed it.  This is done by using a short line that loops back into the reservoir.  Full the reservoir, then pump the handle until no more bubbles are seen.

[CamTom12]

This is what I've done, especially with bleeding new lines.

Get a large syringe (you can get these free from your veterinarian if you ask nicely) and a piece of tubing (surgical tubing is best but tygon will work OK).  These are irrigation-type syringes and not needle-type syringes, so they have a tapered shaft that you can slide the tubing on until it is snug.

Install the original bleeder.  You can re-install the speedbleeder after things are working again.

Fill the syringe with brake fluid and bleed all the excess air out of the tubing.  Loosen the bleeder just enough to allow fluid the flow when the plunger is pushed on the syringe and attach the tubing to the bleeder.  Force the fluid from the syringe into the bleeder and back into the master cylinder.  Work slowly so you don't blow off the tubing and make a mess.  Wrapping a rag loosely around the connections will catch anything if it does come apart.

Keep bleeding backwards and you'll see the air bubbles entering the master cylinder.  Just make sure there is enough free space in the MC so it doesn't overflow.  Once the air bubbles stop, close the bleeder screw finger tight.  Remove the syringe/tubing and re-install the speedbleeder.

Now you can work the speedbleeder to remove any air introduced when you swapped out the bleeder for the SB.

This should take care of your problem.  Test the resistance, then add fluid and button everything up...

Old post, but I’m trying to do this on my front brakes and I can’t push fluid from the top or the bottom. Any tricks?  I shot some brake cleaner through from the top last night and that flowed ok. Still can’t bleed the brakes today. Tried old school pump (handle doesn’t return because air I guess), mityvac, and now syringe.

[CamTom12]

Looks like it’s my master cylinder. Not sure why but it decided to plug up at some point last night

[hubcapsc]

There's a little frob at the bottom of the handlebar
master cylinders that winks at you when you pull
the corresponding lever. Folks have noticed the
frob gets gummed up, and stuff started working
again for them after they cleared it out. If it comes to it,
I've rebuilt one of my handlebar master cylinders
in the past, except for squishing the new rubber
parts into the places they needed to go, it was
pretty easy and straightforward.

-Mike

[Hook#3287]

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1999/gl1500ct-ac-valkyrie-tourer/fr-brake-master-cyl

#11 in the above graphic.  Have you inspected that?

If you prove the master cylinder is working correctly, then you must have a obstruction somewhere, either air or a foreign object in the lines.

If it's air, locking the handle to the grip overnight sometimes will work.

If that doesn't work and you can't get the system to bleed, then r&ring the complete system may be the only way.  Not that difficult, just got to be very careful with the brake fluid, it will eat the paint.

[CamTom12]

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/1999/gl1500ct-ac-valkyrie-tourer/fr-brake-master-cyl

#11 in the above graphic.  Have you inspected that?

If you prove the master cylinder is working correctly, then you must have a obstruction somewhere, either air or a foreign object in the lines.

If it's air, locking the handle to the grip overnight sometimes will work.

If that doesn't work and you can't get the system to bleed, then r&ring the complete system may be the only way.  Not that difficult, just got to be very careful with the brake fluid, it will eat the paint.

Yeah, I had already pulled that part out and shot some brakleen in there, seemed clear.

I took the m/c apart and it was definitely gummed up. The seal at the end of the spring ripped when I was trying to put it back together so I bought a rebuild kit from brakcrafters. I’m kinda stuck until that gets here.

Hopefully it’ll all go together nicely. Seems like everything I’ve taken apart so far has needed a full rebuild.

Bikes don’t like to sit.

[John Schmidt]

Some riders make the mistake the OP made...they drain the system before adding new fluid. That leaves the door open for all kinds of air pockets. Best way...assuming the m/c doesn't need cleaning internally, just start bleeding at the bottom...wherever that may be, and add at the top.

[ridingron]

I've had a lot of luck with gravity feeding the slave cylinder. I had an empty system (MC, Hose and SC). Loosen the SC bleeder valve and snug it back closed. Adjust the master cylinder until the top of the master is horizontal (turn handle bars or loosen MC handle bar clamp). Fill MC with brake fluid. Do not pump handle! Get a rag and the wrench to loosen the bleeder valve. Loosen the bleed valve a quarter turn or so. When it starts dripping, watch closely to see if it is a small stream or a drip drip. When it is a steady stream, tighten the bleeder valve. I've done this several times and never pumped  the clutch lever.

[CamTom12]

I've had a lot of luck with gravity feeding the slave cylinder. I had an empty system (MC, Hose and SC). Loosen the bleeder valve and snug it back closed. Adjust the master cylinder until the top of the master is horizontal (turn handle bars or loosen MC clamp). Fill MC with brake fluid. Do not pump handle! Get a rag and the wrench to loosen the bleeder valve. Loosen the bleed valve a quarter turn or so. When it starts dripping, watch closely to see if it is a small stream or a drip drip. When it is a steady stream, tighten the bleeder valve. I've done this several times and never pumped  the clutch lever.

I’ll try this once I get the mc rebuilt.

[..]

I bought this so I could suck fluid down through the speed bleeder. I reused the new brake fuid over and over.

https://www.amazon.com/DEPEPE-Connections-Scientific-Measuring-Filtration/dp/B07PPFLKRD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3I7UD9MRB05FO&keywords=DEPEPE+2pcs+100ml+Large+Plastic+Syringe&qid=1689716137&s=industrial&sprefix=depepe+2pcs+100ml+large+plastic+syringe+%2Cindustrial%2C164&sr=1-3

[CamTom12]

I bought this so I could suck fluid down through the speed bleeder. I reused the new brake fuid over and over.

https://www.amazon.com/DEPEPE-Connections-Scientific-Measuring-Filtration/dp/B07PPFLKRD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3I7UD9MRB05FO&keywords=DEPEPE+2pcs+100ml+Large+Plastic+Syringe&qid=1689716137&s=industrial&sprefix=depepe+2pcs+100ml+large+plastic+syringe+%2Cindustrial%2C164&sr=1-3

Definitely cheaper than the mity-vac I bought for this job!

[hubcapsc]

I have a syringe that probably once was full of some kind of horse goo.
Its cylinder is about the size of a roll of quarters. I can hook it to a
caliper with a small length of hose and use it to pull an m/c reservoir
full of new fluid into an empty system. Once the system's not
void anymore , normal bleeding starts working.

-Mike "speed bleeders  "