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DaveC
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 03:59:19 PM » |
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The Motor Co. will survive.  They ain't on life support yet & Warren Buffet don't back losers. the hobo |
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fiddle mike
Member
Posts: 1148
Nothing exceeds like excess.
Corpus Christi, TX
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 04:18:32 PM » |
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The Motor Co. will survive. They ain't on life support yet & Warren Buffet don't back losers. the hobo I believe they will, too, as long as management can remember which way to twist the wick. The s.o.s. (same old Sportster) ain't going to pay the bills forever. |
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Tropic traveler
Member
Posts: 3117
Livin' the Valk, er, F6B life in Central Florida.
Silver Springs, Florida
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 06:18:24 PM » |
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Harley will survive. They have been good enough at re-inventing & marketing themselves for all these years with....how shall I say it....an "old tech" product, so I think they will adapt. You will see a shift in focus & most likely some new products slowly introduced. It will be interesting to watch. Honda could take some lessons from the marketing guys at HD!  |
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'13 F6B black-the real new Valkyrie Tourer
'13 F6B red for Kim
'97 Valkyrie Tourer r&w, OLDFRT's ride now!
'98 Valkyrie Tourer burgundy & cream traded for Kim's F6B
'05 SS 750 traded for Kim's F6B
'99 Valkyrie black & silver Tourer, traded in on my F6B
'05 Triumph R3 gone but not forgotten!
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fiddle mike
Member
Posts: 1148
Nothing exceeds like excess.
Corpus Christi, TX
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 06:24:03 PM » |
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Harley will survive. Honda could take some lessons from the marketing guys at HD! Everyone can take a lesson from HD's marketing genius.  One criticism is that HD is still targeting Boomers when the new consumers are more performance oriented. At least the Big Four are covering all the bases. |
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fudgie
Member
Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 06:42:29 PM » |
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As long as there is motorcycles there will be HD. A funnier note, I saw a 'Screw it, lets ride!' sticker on back of trailer of a local HD owner....  |
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR |
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Tropic traveler
Member
Posts: 3117
Livin' the Valk, er, F6B life in Central Florida.
Silver Springs, Florida
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 08:00:11 PM » |
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Right on Mike. I just wish Honda would cover the segment of the riders that want a non-Vtwin big cruiser again.  I think the world is ready for a new Valk, I know I am!  I envision the MoCo using the V-rod style powerplant a lot more in the future. With modifications of course. Spike 'em up to 1600cc or so and cam them for torque for the cruisers & shrink 'em a bit for high RPM screaming for more "sporty" style bikes. And I don't mean for a Sportster.  Whatever the future bikes of the MoCo are, they will probably be exclusively V-twin powered. Water cooling is in their future too. Just my completely unscientific opinion of course! |
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'13 F6B black-the real new Valkyrie Tourer
'13 F6B red for Kim
'97 Valkyrie Tourer r&w, OLDFRT's ride now!
'98 Valkyrie Tourer burgundy & cream traded for Kim's F6B
'05 SS 750 traded for Kim's F6B
'99 Valkyrie black & silver Tourer, traded in on my F6B
'05 Triumph R3 gone but not forgotten!
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fiddle mike
Member
Posts: 1148
Nothing exceeds like excess.
Corpus Christi, TX
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 08:14:05 PM » |
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... Whatever the future bikes of the MoCo are, they will probably be exclusively V-twin powered. Water cooling is in their future too. Just my completely unscientific opinion of course! I was under the impression that EPA was going to force all manufacturers to use FI and liquid cooling and that the V Rod was built in anticipation of that. I thought it was something that was going into effect in 2006. I guess I had my wires crossed but I can't think of any other reason for HD to build a liquid cooled performance machine. It looks to me like, now, they're trying to snazz it up enough to have some curb appeal. |
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Big IV
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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2009, 06:12:01 AM » |
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HD will survive. They always have. Owners change. Plans change. But the motor-company will always come back roaring through again.
I read an MSN article talking about HD's problems yesterday. They listed the main problem as a marketing problem where HDs are attracting older riders instead of younger riders. They interviewed a Boutique HD manager who said when he started in the biz the average customer was around 30 now they are around 55. His quote was along the lines of, "people don't want to buy their grandfather's motorcycle" which I found as odd. I always assumed that the HDs marketing strategy was always: This is still the same bike, buy it.
Honestly, take a v-rod, paint it olive drab green, put the logo on as a stencil in white a little off level, and slap some floppy brown leather saddle bags on it and it would sell like naked women and beer!
HD bought Buell to cover their bases and produce a sport bike. If you want a sport bike that shakes at red lights and smooths out when you take off, then its not a bad little bike. It holds its own. It's not a Suzuki Widowmaker, but its a nice little crotch rocket comperable to any CBR.
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"Ride Free Citizen!"
VRCCDS0176
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SteveL
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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 08:26:24 AM » |
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The trouble Harley went and got into, was mimicking the US Auto industry and building a finance business based on profitable loans from unreliable debtors. Just like the housing market. So now they're carrying a bunch of bad debt.
From a motorcycle perspective though, you have to admire what they do. The just keep improving what they have. In 07 they added the 96CI engine and 6 speed, in 08 they added a 6 gallon tank, fly by wire throttle (EPA driven) and a smoother drive train with a rubberized rear sprocket (IDS). Then in 09 they have cleaned up and tweaked all that and added a new frame which allowed them to go to a bigger set of tires and wheels (Valkyrie sized) better exhaust flow system, better heat mgmt/rear cylinder shutdown system and many more improvments.
Harley cares about motorcycles and they do intend to keep competing. Unlike Honda that just seems to look at spreadhseet sales figures and leave anything even remotely exciting to the aftermarket industry.
I love my Valkyrie and I'm not selling her (ever if I can help it). But I also love my HD and I gotta tell ya, HD does an awful lot more to tell me they "love me" than Honda ever did or ever will. It just isn't in their blood.
Who knows where Honda is going? If their actions speak louder than words they might be building washing machines next year.
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« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 08:29:19 AM by SteveL »
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fiddle mike
Member
Posts: 1148
Nothing exceeds like excess.
Corpus Christi, TX
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 09:52:32 AM » |
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They're in trouble because they were forced to make a lot of sub-prime, bad risk loans in order to move motorcycles and they got caught.
They keep improving because there is so much room for improvement, they're pretty far behind the curve.
A tank nearly as big as an '03 Valk's, an engine slight larger than a '97 Valk's and a frame, finally, as wide as my '95 600cc Shadow. Their exhaust system is an attempt to avoid EPA attention, otherwise they'd be peddling the same "loud and proud" ones.
HD isn't in the business of loving you any more than Honda or Palmolive soap is. They are (supposed to be) in the business of making money and the fact that you feel they have a personal commitment to you, the customer, is evidence of their admittedly great marketing dept.
The local dealer just shot a commercial using a friend of mine who has ridden Harleys for longer than most HD owners have been alive. He's never been in the local boutique and never owned an new Harley nor one bit of H-D licensed "bling" but he fits their image of a real Harleybiker (the guy their customers pretend to be on the weekends.)
Honda will survive on its merits.
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3fan4life
Member
Posts: 6958
Any day that you ride is a good day!
Moneta, VA
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 10:03:30 AM » |
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The May issue of Cycle World has a short article saying that Harley is developing a new V4.
Maybe if they do the V-twinkie craze will be over.
Maybe then Honda will get back to innovation instead of playing "Copy Cat".
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1 Corinthians 1:18  |
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SteveL
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 11:15:04 AM » |
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They're in trouble because they were forced to make a lot of sub-prime, bad risk loans in order to move motorcycles and they got caught.
They keep improving because there is so much room for improvement, they're pretty far behind the curve.
A tank nearly as big as an '03 Valk's, an engine slight larger than a '97 Valk's and a frame, finally, as wide as my '95 600cc Shadow. Their exhaust system is an attempt to avoid EPA attention, otherwise they'd be peddling the same "loud and proud" ones.
HD isn't in the business of loving you any more than Honda or Palmolive soap is. They are (supposed to be) in the business of making money and the fact that you feel they have a personal commitment to you, the customer, is evidence of their admittedly great marketing dept.
The local dealer just shot a commercial using a friend of mine who has ridden Harleys for longer than most HD owners have been alive. He's never been in the local boutique and never owned an new Harley nor one bit of H-D licensed "bling" but he fits their image of a real Harleybiker (the guy their customers pretend to be on the weekends.)
Honda will survive on its merits.
They speak with their actions, and their actions say they want to keep making bikes. Make light of it if you want, they at least are heading in a positive direction. There may be some posers out there in HD land, but if you give them a chance you'll find plenty of real bikers in there too. Just my opinion. |
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Bagger John - #3785
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 12:15:47 PM » |
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Honda's motorcycle sales constitute a small portion of its overall revenue stream. Say what you want about Big Red but I certainly don't see Harley-Davidson successfully designing, producing and marketing such things as corporate jets and mid-to-high end consumer automobiles...
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fiddle mike
Member
Posts: 1148
Nothing exceeds like excess.
Corpus Christi, TX
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 12:59:49 PM » |
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They speak with their actions, and their actions say they want to keep making bikes. Make light of it if you want, they at least are heading in a positive direction. There may be some posers out there in HD land, but if you give them a chance you'll find plenty of real bikers in there too. Just my opinion. LOL! The worst kind of poser it the guy who brags that he's riding a Vulcan because he couldn't afford a Harley. Anyhow, the original post was about the goofy ad and H-D management twisting the throttle forward. Its going to take more than cheer leading for H-D to get back on track. I like hearing the Harleys up on the highway at night and I enjoy sitting at the bbq joint an looking at them. I'd say that most of the guys who I consider to be the "real deal" ride Harley but they'd be the real deal on a BMW or Kymco. |
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fiddle mike
Member
Posts: 1148
Nothing exceeds like excess.
Corpus Christi, TX
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 01:01:43 PM » |
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The May issue of Cycle World has a short article saying that Harley is developing a new V4.
Maybe if they do the V-twinkie craze will be over.
Maybe then Honda will get back to innovation instead of playing "Copy Cat".
Who knows, maybe they'll follow Harley and start producing the Magna again.  |
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Tropic traveler
Member
Posts: 3117
Livin' the Valk, er, F6B life in Central Florida.
Silver Springs, Florida
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 07:23:59 PM » |
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For what a Harley costs, there better be a LOT of love thrown in for their owners! I sure don't see the value in the product. Honda dealers looks at the profit margins that HD dealers enjoy with VERY envious eyes. I think those days are over though. I can only imagine how good of a bike the Valkyrie could become given the same refinement treatment given the Harley line up over the same time span. I am disappointed in Honda's lack of vision & "stick to it-ness" concerning their big cruiser line. I would dearly love to see the Moco become a world class bike maker. They have the ability. I'm rootin' for them but they're going to have to open up their minds a bit! Come on Harley...Do us proud!! |
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'13 F6B black-the real new Valkyrie Tourer
'13 F6B red for Kim
'97 Valkyrie Tourer r&w, OLDFRT's ride now!
'98 Valkyrie Tourer burgundy & cream traded for Kim's F6B
'05 SS 750 traded for Kim's F6B
'99 Valkyrie black & silver Tourer, traded in on my F6B
'05 Triumph R3 gone but not forgotten!
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Big Rig
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 08:04:00 PM » |
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I have riden a several dozen harleys over my years of riding...they have gooten better...like they should...if they would make a flat six, they would have me back. Rented an 08 street glide a few months back, I have a super valk, bc it was the closest thing to my valk. Bear in mind I have 99, just felt dissapointed...i know when i jump on the throttle on my valk...power...the Street glide was the nicest HD I have riden...but it pales in comparison, again my opinion.
HD is has come a long way from the AMF days and thank goodness for that. They will get thru this time just like they have in the past...if they want big growth...go with gerth and build a flat six...
my 2cents
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