Check this out....Ethanol

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

If you do read the link below ...Comments / Thoughts ?

http://www.motorcycle-accessories-wiseguy.com/ethanol-motorcycle.html

[Marcel]

Researched the issue and all is good for the most part with 10% or less.

E-85 or 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline is out of the question.

But your policy of filling your tank up before you put it up for the week, is mandatory.

Due to the alchohol tendency and affinity for H2O or water.

Sucks it up like a sponge.

This causes acids to form that will pit metal.

So condensation from a nearly empty tank could do some real damage.

I have heard of and talked to people that say they have a real problem with it in their car.

I never have and my truck is 17 years old.

It will however clean a fellers tank out and this willl try to enter your fuel system, causing clogged

filters and fuel injectors

In my case it just clogged a filter.

Some of the guys driving Ford Ranger Trucks that work for me have had lots of injector problems , but

 then again it may just be a batch of bad fuel injectors.





My small engines hate the stuff though, my weed eater bit the dust and I think this is what ethanol

will do for some of these small engines, but then again I cold be wrong.



In a perfect world it would be better to run 100% Gas but what's a biker to do.

[T.P.]

This is what is made at one of the Ethanol plants in Minnesota.

http://www.shakersvodka.com/shakers-products

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

This is what is made at one of the Ethanol plants in Minnesota.

http://www.shakersvodka.com/shakers-products

I've never been one to drink the clear stuff ( makes me crazy    ) I bet that stuff would clear the fuel system.

[stormrider]

Worker at Lowe's here in Dothan said Troy Bilt was having problems with their small engines coming back. Did and extensive study and the results were that ethanol was the culprit. They now sell Stabil for ethanol. But it's okay, the government mandated it.

[..]

The prat that invented the world wide web (sarcasm font) has this to say about the ethanol scam swalllowed by so many Americans.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/22/report-al-gore-reverses-view-ethanol-blames-politics-previous-support/


For those who think FOX news is akin to the spawn of the devil - more reading here

http://www.google.com/search?q=al+gore+ethanol&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBR_en

Oh yeah, the same prat has managed to convince another few million Americans that Arkansas will have sea water beachfront property soon.

[Marcel]

Don't buy your small engines at Home Depot due the fact they are Lowe on Troy's Small engines.

Don't buy clear liquor for Joes' Motorcycles.

Fox News is run by the Devil, who is masquerading as Al Gore.

Got it.

May still be suffering from Skinheads Post about hey watch this for 30 seconds and then eat your

computer mouse.

Man that was hard to swallow.

 

[Tundra]

I won't put that crap in anything. Weed Trimmer, blower, edger, mower, SUV, Truck, Bike...everything that I put fuel in gets Non-Ethanol, period.
I don't care what it costs...It pays for itself. I have posted many times on this topic over the years. Many problems ethanol fuel related, practically melting/dissolving plastic bodied fuel pumps, extensive corrossion (my Marina buddy loves it!!!) His marine engine repair has skyrocketed. I have enough proof, just from working on my Valkyrie. Pulling inspecting and cleaning my fuel sytem three times in two years.
  Use this web-site to see if there's one near you, try it, you won't even know how bad your bike was running, until you get a tank of this, feels like a new machine.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I won't put that crap in anything. Weed Trimmer, blower, edger, mower, SUV, Truck, Bike...everything that I put fuel in gets Non-Ethanol, period.
I don't care what it costs...It pays for itself. I have posted many times on this topic over the years. Many problems ethanol fuel related, practically melting/dissolving plastic bodied fuel pumps, extensive corrossion (my Marina buddy loves it!!!) His marine engine repair has skyrocketed. I have enough proof, just from working on my Valkyrie. Pulling inspecting and cleaning my fuel sytem three times in two years.
  Use this web-site to see if there's one near you, try it, you won't even know how bad your bike was running, until you get a tank of this, feels like a new machine.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

That's great information Doug and would work if you stayed in one town on every ride....What do you do when you take a trip ? I know when we are getting from point A to point B on a trip we roll hard for a 100 miles or so stop for fuel and hammer down for another 100 miles or so....It would get into travel time seeking 100% gas and I really don't see it possible say on a 600 /700 mile day 

[Tundra]

You are correct. While out riding I have no choice.
I try to arrive home close to empty, if possible. If not I take beach rides during the week, after work. Then fill up again with my Non-Ethanol. Once I got my fuel sytem clean, It has stayed trouble free practicing this. If I do not have a choice and have to park my bike for a period, I will treat my fuel and run it for a while to get it into the bowls.

[Marcel]

Actually from what I have exp. is after you use the E-10 for a  while it does the cleaning and

the results are this cleaning effect is what gums up the works.

So once you start running E-10, even with it's performance robbing effects, everything

should perform at a 90% level of performance.

When the alchohol has grabbed all the moisture it can hold on a molecular level, that's when the

acid begins to form, formic acid if you will, that is why you need to keep the tank full when it

sits for a period of time.

[Airetime]

If you do read the link below ...Comments / Thoughts ?

http://www.motorcycle-accessories-wiseguy.com/ethanol-motorcycle.html

Pretty much right on with the exception that the ethanol warning sticker states that the fuel "MAY" contain up-to  10% ethanol. I have tested quite a few stations here in Washington state and the highest percentage has been 7%. For what it is worth, purchase a tester ($10 or less online) and test what you are putting in that tank, it only takes a few minutes. AND because the moisture settles low in the tank it "Can" and "Does" make your scooter run like CRAP when you let it get low on fuel AND you may need to drop the bowls on the carbs to clean out the crap  

[Highbinder]

When I'm riding in my own area, I use 100% gas only, in everything I own....when I'm traveling out of town I keep a bottle or two of the products pictured below...both are suppose to elimanate the effects of the achohol in the gas...I've been using the Tron since spring of this year....Tron is about 10 bucks and the Sta-bil around 8, this is not the normal Sta-bil, which is red, this stuff is blue and states on the back that it elimantes the effects of the achohol....

[RoadKill]

I have run E-10 AND E-85 in almost every combustion engine I own. The only significant difference has been power and fuel economy. All of them have awesome clean fuel systems because of it,no water and no varnish.It's the best "cleaner" you can buy!
 Most lost too much power and use too much more fuel to make the savings worth it but with a little adjustment of the fuel mixture and timing gains were made. Fuel injected motors with higher compression that recommended 92 octane did best with no changes.

Any hard and cracked rubber in the fuel system as well as almost rusted thru lines and tanks,or oil soaked rubber hose and 1/2 plugged fuel filters became obvious real quick but all was due to poor previous maintenance and once corrected all was well.

I have not run 85 in the chain saw....YET ! I'm convinced 3/4 of the problems are psychological and the rest are just maintenance that could have been procrastinated longer with petroleum.

[Airetime]

I have run E-10 AND E-85 in almost every combustion engine I own. The only significant difference has been power and fuel economy. All of them have awesome clean fuel systems because of it,no water and no varnish.It's the best "cleaner" you can buy!
 Most lost too much power and use too much more fuel to make the savings worth it but with a little adjustment of the fuel mixture and timing gains were made. Fuel injected motors with higher compression that recommended 92 octane did best with no changes.

Any hard and cracked rubber in the fuel system as well as almost rusted thru lines and tanks,or oil soaked rubber hose and 1/2 plugged fuel filters became obvious real quick but all was due to poor previous maintenance and once corrected all was well.

I have not run 85 in the chain saw....YET ! I'm convinced 3/4 of the problems are psychological and the rest are just maintenance that could have been procrastinated longer with petroleum.

Me thinks that  maybe ¾ of your reply must be physcological as there is and are problems associated with running 10% ethanol fuel. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions, thanks for sharing your opinion. The facts are that using fuel with 10% ethanol reduces power and mileage and attracts moisture. If most of the time you ride where the air is dry versus those of use who have moisture in the air most of the time, then that may also be a factor.  Boaters around here take precautions because they have to if they want their boats to run after stowing them away for the winter, most of us now need to take the same precautions that they take as well as dealing with problems that ethanol adds to the picture. I am glad that you are satisfied running your ethanol blended fuel, but many here including myself are not happy using it. If the EPA wants U.S. citizens to subsidize farming and buy new vehicles, why don’t they just say so instead of forcing us to use corn juice in our tanks. I say drill for oil and reduce imports, but that is probably too simple to do. Take a test of what you are running and you may find that you are using fuel that has significantly lower amounts of ethanol versus 10%, if not you are the exception, lucky guy! 

[dosnewfs]

10% ethanol reduces power and mileage.

***It may reduce power in a carburated engine that is tuned to run on a fuel with less oxygen in the fuel.  There is also the potential that too high of an alcohol content could cause the engine to run lean and thus hot.  A modern fuel injected engine should compensate for the additional oxygenate in the fuel and will adjust the fuel/air mixture giving more power not less.  When the fuel/air mixture is changed yes the engine will pump more fuel.

and attracts moisture
you cannot absorb enough moisture from the air to cause any real problems (unless you let it sit in an open bucket for a long time, or a closed tank for a very long time)  If you do this with gasoline you will have water problems also.  Alcohol in the fuel actually helps to carry water out of your tank a little at a time and unnoticed, instead of it collecting on the bottom of the tank and coming out in slugs when you switch to reserve and such things.

I say drill for oil and reduce imports
I couldn't agree more.  We should make sure we are not held hostage by foreign interests.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

   A modern fuel injected engine should compensate for the additional oxygenate in the fuel.

Too bad that does'nt help us with the Valkyrie 

[john]

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp .....
the site is bull
no station  at that location in tyler texas

[Bobbo]

10% ethanol reduces power and mileage.

***It may reduce power in a carburated engine that is tuned to run on a fuel with less oxygen in the fuel.  There is also the potential that too high of an alcohol content could cause the engine to run lean and thus hot.  A modern fuel injected engine should compensate for the additional oxygenate in the fuel and will adjust the fuel/air mixture giving more power not less.  When the fuel/air mixture is changed yes the engine will pump more fuel.

Not actually true.  While fuel injection helps achieve stoichiometry and efficiency, the fact remains that ethanol contains less energy than gasoline.  The oxygenation effect of the ethanol helps reduce certain exhaust pollutants, but does not improve power or performance.

[Hoser]

I have used whatever is cheapest at the pump, around here it is usually gasoline, sometimes ethanol. This  has caused no problems in a long time and a lot of miles.  I've got better things to worry about.  hoser

[dosnewfs]

Not actually true.  While fuel injection helps achieve stoichiometry and efficiency, the fact remains that ethanol contains less energy than gasoline.  The oxygenation effect of the ethanol helps reduce certain exhaust pollutants, but does not improve power or performance.

Why do people put turbo chargers/supercharger/blowers/K&N airfilters.... on their vehicles?  To boost horsepower by getting more oxygen into the engine.  Fuel is easy but oxygen is generally the limiting factor.  When you have more oxygen in the fuel, and continue to have the same air flow you need to add more fuel.  You will then have more fuel and yes a stoichiometric mixture which will yield more power.  If you believe the folks in the NASCAR teams know something about what their cars are doing, they say that their cars are making more HP with the 15% blend they are running next year.

[Marcel]

I don't think the feller that started this thread was worried about power but longevity.

More Octane will do you no good unless you increase the compression ratio.

Just trying to stay on Track Here.

All a Valkyrie requires is 87 Octane.

More Octane may make you feel better but your motorcycle won't feel it.

[Bobbo]

Why do people put turbo chargers/supercharger/blowers/K&N airfilters.... on their vehicles?  To boost horsepower by getting more oxygen into the engine.  Fuel is easy but oxygen is generally the limiting factor.  When you have more oxygen in the fuel, and continue to have the same air flow you need to add more fuel.  You will then have more fuel and yes a stoichiometric mixture which will yield more power.  If you believe the folks in the NASCAR teams know something about what their cars are doing, they say that their cars are making more HP with the 15% blend they are running next year.

Of course the use of a blower is to get more oxygen into the engine.  It also boosts the effective compression ratio for even more power.

Sorry for the following techno-talk, but it is needed to explain my answer.

Unfortunately the single atom of oxygen in the ethanol molecule does nothing to help the initial or secondary burning of the fuel, which produces the power.  An ethanol molecule requires 3 oxygen molecules (O2, not single atoms) to burn.  The hydrocarbon component in gasoline needs much more oxygen.  The initial combustion of gasoline produces mostly carbon monoxide as a waste product.  Under the extreme heat and pressure of combustion, carbon monoxide combusts with free oxygen molecules to produce carbon dioxide.  After this process, there are a few left-over free oxygen atoms from the ethanol.  They combine with some of the remaining carbon monoxide molecules to produce carbon dioxide, thus reducing carbon monoxide pollutants.  The extremely tiny amount of oxygen added to the fuel from ethanol is insignificant compared to the lower calorific energy of the ethanol.

If NASCAR is claiming higher power from E15, it is probably from the additives mixed with this racing specific fuel.  It certainly isn’t coming from the ethanol.

[HayHauler]

Why do people put turbo chargers/supercharger/blowers/K&N airfilters.... on their vehicles?  To boost horsepower by getting more oxygen into the engine.  Fuel is easy but oxygen is generally the limiting factor.  When you have more oxygen in the fuel, and continue to have the same air flow you need to add more fuel.  You will then have more fuel and yes a stoichiometric mixture which will yield more power.  If you believe the folks in the NASCAR teams know something about what their cars are doing, they say that their cars are making more HP with the 15% blend they are running next year.

Sorry for the use of layman's terms, but helps to get my point across.  

Nitrous Oxide is another way to get mo Oxygen into an engine.  NO2 don't burn, but lets you add mo fuel, so mo power.

Hay  
Jimmyt

[RoadKill]

I have run E-10 AND E-85 in almost every combustion engine I own. The only significant difference has been power and fuel economy. All of them have awesome clean fuel systems because of it,no water and no varnish.It's the best "cleaner" you can buy!
 Most lost too much power and use too much more fuel to make the savings worth it but with a little adjustment of the fuel mixture and timing gains were made. Fuel injected motors with higher compression that recommended 92 octane did best with no changes.

Any hard and cracked rubber in the fuel system as well as almost rusted thru lines and tanks,or oil soaked rubber hose and 1/2 plugged fuel filters became obvious real quick but all was due to poor previous maintenance and once corrected all was well.

I have not run 85 in the chain saw....YET ! I'm convinced 3/4 of the problems are psychological and the rest are just maintenance that could have been procrastinated longer with petroleum.

Me thinks that  maybe ¾ of your reply must be physcological as there is and are problems associated with running 10% ethanol fuel. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions, thanks for sharing your opinion. The facts are that using fuel with 10% ethanol reduces power and mileage and attracts moisture. If most of the time you ride where the air is dry versus those of use who have moisture in the air most of the time, then that may also be a factor.  Boaters around here take precautions because they have to if they want their boats to run after stowing them away for the winter, most of us now need to take the same precautions that they take as well as dealing with problems that ethanol adds to the picture. I am glad that you are satisfied running your ethanol blended fuel, but many here including myself are not happy using it. If the EPA wants U.S. citizens to subsidize farming and buy new vehicles, why don’t they just say so instead of forcing us to use corn juice in our tanks. I say drill for oil and reduce imports, but that is probably too simple to do. Take a test of what you are running and you may find that you are using fuel that has significantly lower amounts of ethanol versus 10%, if not you are the exception, lucky guy! 

"Take a test of what you are running and you may find that you are using fuel that has significantly lower amounts of ethanol versus 10%"

I'm talkin' 'Bout E-85! Not E-10! I am not trying to get any one to switch teams,just passing along my research. All of my boating friends told me that it would rust the knuter valve completely shut in 3.4 minutes and I should have believed them before subjecting my muffler bearings to such hazards. Guess I'm just not a follower like that.

I shared FACTS not opinion..what has your own personal research shown? The EPA as well as most of the Gov't can kiss my A$$ ! I dont care what they are pushing and subsidizing farmers is not what I'm into! I WILL NOT buy new vehicles to run Govt fuels and if the EPA kept their nose out of our transportation we could all better afford the outrageous taxes that are comming!

Ethanol runs cooler,has higher octane rating,it IS re-new-able (unlike the coal burnt to send electricity to your Chevy Volt for a recharge).A motor tuned to run on Dino-fuel WILL run on ethanol and some can be tailored to actually run better with E-fuel than they would with petroleum.It does not "DRAW" moisture,in FACT it mixes with water fine and still burns cleaner! The 15 to 85 percent petroleum that the government REQUIRES it is mixed with (so you can not drink it) is why moisture messes things up . I can make my own ethanol right here in my back yard....If the B.A.T.F wouldnt arrest me for tax evasion! Every one else can drive 50,000 dollar cars that have government required radio transmitting valvestems in the tires to tell their dumb ass to check tire pressure once in a while as I drive by in my 55 chevy with a trunk full of leftover cash and wave at them while on-star tries to figure out why the air bag spontaneously deployed (probably because of a rude gesture flown out the window that is considered a road rage offense) ! 

I would actually rather give my dollars to an American farmer than some Saudi Prince, Just call me wierd  But right now the US Govt makes their share of every dollar either way!

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

This is what is made at one of the Ethanol plants in Minnesota.

http://www.shakersvodka.com/shakers-products

I've never been one to drink the clear stuff ( makes me crazy    ) I bet that stuff would clear the fuel system.

Dang, I've been drinking the clear stuff on and off for forty years.  Guess that explains a lot.