Shop Heater mounting location?

[Walküre]

I have a shop, 28 X 40. I have an overhead infrared radiant tube heater, but just can't see paying over $30 a month, just for the pleasure of having NIPSCO's gas meter at the shop. I normally use the shop 3 or 4 days a week, probably 15 - 20 hours. So, I've never hooked it up. Currently I have it for sale on Craig's List.

So, I have bought two 5000 watt, 240 volt electric heaters. I'm pretty certain they'll keep the shop warm enough, as I have 8" of insulation in the walls. However, I am undecided where to locate them. One end gets a lot more use than the other - the other end has most of my storage, and the '51 Ford truck that I'm working (slowly) on. The "working" end has the bike, the tools, welder, sandblast cabinet, etc, etc.

I can swivel the heaters, easily, so was thinking about putting the heaters midway of the length of the shop, one on each outside wall. That way, I could swivel both towards the working side, focusing the heat there, but still point opposite directions, if I want to work on the truck. One other alternative is one at each end of the shop, centered and pointing in. Or, both centered in the middle, pointing one each direction.

Has anyone had a similar situation, and solved it? I'm open to comments and suggestions...

Plan to do the wiring today or tomorrow, so kind of in a hurry...

thanks,

R

[shank]

how many btu is your new heaters? and what are the amps? just curious.

[Walküre]

how many btu is your new heaters? and what are the amps? just curious.

It's 17,000 btu at 240 volts, and 5000/240 is about 21 amps. I have another 4000 watt heater (13000 btu), built into my air conditioning, which might help "put it over the top".

On a different site, there were 30 reviews, and they broke out like this:

30 Reviews
5 star:     (24)
4 star:     (3)
3 star:     (1)
2 star:    (1)
1 star:     (1)

Here's a link for the best price I found - you get a free space heater, that's $30 at Menards. With free shipping, and an extra 5% off (it's on the page), both heaters came to $530, shipped.

http://www.air-n-water.com/product/G73.html

[Jeff K]

I had a 26 X 32 shop when I was in Northern WI. I put a small forced air heater (propane) in the non working corner and aimed it diagonally across the shop.

I found that the best MO was to leave it on and set the thermostat at 38-40 degrees. If you go out and throw the heat on only when you want to work everything sweats, all the tools and equipment get wet, and the floor never warms up, so you have a bitch of a time sucking all that cold out of everything.

I was very surprised at how little it cost to keep the heat on about $30 a month in propane. It was attached to the tank that fed the house.

34140 btu  41 amps

To put it all in perspective, 10,000 watts is equal to approximately 6.6 hand held hair driers.

[Walküre]

I was planning to keep it "idling" all the time, at least until I find out what that will cost me. I'm going to have to do some "hootenizing" on the thermostat, as it only goes down to 50 degrees, but that's easy enough.

I know about the sweating - that's the biggest problem I have right now. Using a kerosene salamander, and I'm just plain tired of my tools rusting from the seating. And not good for the truck, as it's just in primer, and had been taken down to bare metal. There are a few spots that will have to be seriously stripped again, which I know is a direct result of the sweating.







Thanks for the info. I would have gone with propane, but the same problem - the shop is on it's own lot across the street, and since it is zoned commercial, EVERYthing costs more, and that's not good, for a personal shop, that's just costing me money, instead of making me money!

but, I wouldn't change it for the world!!

[GotValk]

Don't look at it as $30 a month....Look at it as $1.00 a day for warmth and pleasure!
I would not think the electric heat is that much cheaper.

You Gotta Pay to Play!

Good Luck!

I do the same as Jeff K troll the heat at 40 then pump it up when you need it.

[Robert]

Have you thought about a waste oil heater? I have used them and the disadvantages are they are a bit messy but you can burn almost anything in them. If you run out of waste oil you can burn kerosene the low running cost would help offset the purchase cost and allow you to run it longer so things come up to temp and stay there. Also a fan circulating the air would help some. I kept a 5000 square foot shop warm even though it had a lot of windows and it was toasty.  Nice project I look forward to seeing the results. On the money end I know quite a few people that would pay for the kind of thing your doing for fun, its hard to find someone that will do this kind of work.

[Jeff K]

The problem with gas is that water is a product of combustion. So if it's not vented it will contribute to the sweating problem.
I would have gone with a vented gas unit and used a 100# propane bottle. That makes it easy to see how much you are spending.

I have those same electric heaters under my bulk sugar and soy oil tanks. Don't feel bad about replacing the thermostats with something that will go lower, they will fail soon anyway, or at least both of mine did. I put wall mounted line voltage thermostats on them.

[Walküre]

Have you thought about a waste oil heater? I have used them and the disadvantages are they are a bit messy but you can burn almost anything in them.

Thought about it, but there are about a dozen people very close by, using them, so they have a corner on the "waste oil" market. And I don't generate enough to keep one fed, or even close. Kerosene is over $4.50 a gallon here, right now, and only going up, so it was costing me probably $5 a day, every time I go over there.

I also find that since I quit smoking 18 months ago, I'm much more susceptible to any fumes. I tend to cough for hours and hours, after working over there.

I'm going to be pretty happy with the electric heat. I'm not TOO worried about the cost to run it - gas is only going up by leaps and bounds, so electric may end up the smart way, regardless. And Jeff is right, the kerosene adds greatly to the sweating problem.

Robert - you can see more of the '51 truck project at:  http://www.crbest.com/bodywork/

EDIT - oh yeah, Jeff...I'm not sure I WANT to know what I'm spending over there! Momma takes care of the bills, so I never even see them...

She and I get along because we only have ONE thing in common - we both love ME!!!

[Shivesy]

5000 watts = 5 kW *.10 (cost per kwh est) = .50 per hour to run 1-5000 watt heater.

[R J]

In my 32 X 40 shop out back, I have 2 electric heaters I got from Harbor Freight about 10 years ago.    Mounted them on the side walls.    One at 1 end and 1 at the other end.    Pointed mostly straight across.

They run 24/7, and low setting is like 40 to 45.    Not sure on the bottom, but I  know I can bring it from the low to 65 in very short order when the temp outside is below ZERO.......

My electrician buddy, who moved to Arkansas, installed whatever it is for me way back when.    I have not had any problem with it.   Like I said, I'm not to well informed on it, but I think it is a line reducer for the thermostat.   Love it.

[Walküre]

In my 32 X 40 shop out back, I have 2 electric heaters I got from Harbor Freight about 10 years ago.    Mounted them on the side walls.    One at 1 end and 1 at the other end.    Pointed mostly straight across.

They run 24/7, and low setting is like 40 to 45.

RJ - any idea about how much it adds to your electric bill?

I can track my usage, on the meter, since it is on it's own meter. If it starts getting out of hand, I can always just use it when I'm over there. Trial and error.

thanks, all!!

R

[Jess from VA]

Whatever way you go, a cheap overhead ceiling fan (or two) on medium will act to spread your heat more evenly, and circulate naturally rising heat back down to the ground. Not much draw for the electric motor.  They come in handy in the hot summer too.

Also I have always used various chunks of cheap carpeting on concrete floors (flat not shag, for no-trip) which helps keep the cold off my feet (and back) when working.  Drag it around depending on the job.  It gets dirty and nasty after awhile. 

[Jabba]

Convert your gas radiant tube heater to propane.  It should be nothing more than orifices and a regulator.  Then you can use propane.  The beauty of the tube heater is that it puts the water from combustion out the flue, and it heats the OBJECTS in the garage, thus preventing the sweating. 

That's MY advise.  I am an HVAC designer.  And it's probably worth what you paid for it.  But... that's what I'd do if I were in YOUR spot.

Side note... are we ever gonna get together on this Kenda rear/front tire?

Jabba

[Jabba]

Whatever way you go, a cheap overhead ceiling fan (or two) on medium will act to spread your heat more evenly, and circulate naturally rising heat back down to the ground. Not much draw for the electric motor.  They come in handy in the hot summer too.

Also I have always used various chunks of cheap carpeting on concrete floors (flat not shag, for no-trip) which helps keep the cold off my feet (and back) when working.  Drag it around depending on the job.  It gets dirty and nasty after awhile. 

A big cardboard box works VERY good too, as does a piece of 1/2" "R" board.

It's what we call a "Kentucy Creeper".  No offense intented to my friends from Kentucky.

Which bring up a point...  I heard that Jeffersonville Indiana was thinking about becoming part of Kentucky.  The move is supported by BOTH states teachers as it will raise the average IQ of BOTH states.
   
Jabba

[R J]

In my 32 X 40 shop out back, I have 2 electric heaters I got from Harbor Freight about 10 years ago.    Mounted them on the side walls.    One at 1 end and 1 at the other end.    Pointed mostly straight across.

They run 24/7, and low setting is like 40 to 45.

RJ - any idea about how much it adds to your electric bill?

I can track my usage, on the meter, since it is on it's own meter. If it starts getting out of hand, I can always just use it when I'm over there. Trial and error.

thanks, all!!

R

Looking back through my old bills and not knowing what the price was then and now, I'd say less than $30 a month........   Well worth it to not have all that sweating BS.

[Jabba]

That's what I love the MOST about my heated garage floor by the way. 

No sweat, and a dry warm car in the morning.  I'll bet I don't pay $30/month to heat my garage.  Of course if I had paid to have it installed by someone else it's a $20K system.  As it was, doing it myself, and leveraging all my "specifier" discounts, I have about $5K in it.

Jabba

[Walküre]

Convert your gas radiant tube heater to propane.  It should be nothing more than orifices and a regulator.  Then you can use propane.  The beauty of the tube heater is that it puts the water from combustion out the flue, and it heats the OBJECTS in the garage, thus preventing the sweating.  

That's MY advise.  I am an HVAC designer.  And it's probably worth what you paid for it.  But... that's what I'd do if I were in YOUR spot.

Side note... are we ever gonna get together on this Kenda rear/front tire?

Jabba

Yeah, we GOTTA get together on that! Looking like a "spring" project, instead of a "winter" project. I'm on midnights as of January, and still trying to get into the new sleep cycle. I WILL get down there, though. Thanks for the patience!

I bought the tube heater for all the reasons mentioned. Problem is, it's an older discontinued model, and I can't get the correct regulator and orifice for it, to convert it. They have a "kit" to REPAIR the propane version, but states it's NOT for conversion. I really like the radiant, but since I can't seem to get the stuff to make it propane, I'll put up with the electric. I don't have much into the tube heater, so if I get what I want for it, I'll be quite a bit ahead of the game. I don't spend THAT much time over there, in the winter, so it will be ok. Besides, one of the heaters is wired into the neighbor's basement, so MY bill won't be that bad...



R

[Jabba]

Besides, one of the heaters is wired into the neighbor's basement, so MY bill won't be that bad...



R

Sounds like a Democrat to me...   

Jabba

[Jeff K]

Besides, one of the heaters is wired into the neighbor's basement, so MY bill won't be that bad...



R

Sounds like a Democrat to me...   

Jabba

Share the heat?

[Jabba]

Share the heat?

Reaching into another person's pocket.

Just a joke though.  Walkure is a good guy.  I took an unfair shot and it was intended ONLY in jest. 

Jabba

[fudgie]

You ever try and get the rails mounted with your hitch?

[JerryB]

If you go electric,check the rates on your bill....Different uses for the electric allows them to charge a cheaper rate....JerryB.

[Walküre]

If you go electric,check the rates on your bill....Different uses for the electric allows them to charge a cheaper rate....JerryB.

I don't follow you. Do you mean I might get a cheaper rate, if I tell them I'm heating with electric? I know that the electric co. paid for my water heater, when I changed over from gas, and they can control the hours it heats, depending on electric demand. We've never noticed at all, and I'm pretty sure we get a reduced rate also.

if that's what you mean, I'll surely check into it...

You ever try and get the rails mounted with your hitch?

Fudgie - too cold, that's why I'm getting the heat!     The Valk is sitting, partially disassembled, just waiting. I have gotten to the point, that I can't work in there, with the kerosene heat for very long - I think it might have something to do with quitting smoking - used to not bother me at all, but now I cough for hours afterwards. Maybe I ALWAYS coughed, but just attributed it to smoking.

I did notice that they seem to have changed to selling the rails for $299, instead of auctioning them. I will be wiring for the heat today and tomorrow, and should have the heaters installed shortly after they get here - probably Wednesday. I should know something on the rails, shortly thereafter.

R

[alph]

I have a “hot dawg” heater in my shed.  It’s set up to blow diagonally across my 15x20 shop.  Sure my shops much smaller then yours, but it works.  If I were to do it again I’d definitely go with radiant heat in the concrete!!  There’s nothing like it!!  Keeps everything dry and when you’ve got to lay down on that floor in the middle of January, you don’t freeze to death!!  

I also have two thermostats, one set for a low temp (40*) and one set for a high temp (67*) with a switch in the house to turn the system to the low setting over to the high setting.  That way my shed is never below 40*, and when I want to go out and work in it, I just throw the switch and the heater kicks on.  The only problem is I often forget to put it back down to the 40* setting, that’s when I remember at 2am, go down stairs and through the switch!!  

[JerryB]

Most electric co.'s will put you in a rate class according to you usage.More things you have, the lower the rate........JB.