Need Help - How to break the grip of red locktite

[Slvrvalk1]

I am in the process of putting frame sliders on my Concours 14 that sits in the same garage as my Valkyrie (now Valk related).  I ruined the head of a hex head cap bolt (I did not have the hex head socket perfectly straight when I started turning), and I am having trouble.  I have access to the bolt with vice grips, but I cannot break it loose because it has red locktite on the threads.  I am concerned about using too much heat in the vicinity of the other parts.  Does anyone know a way to break the grip of red locktitie without using heat?

Any help would be appreciated.

Dave

[Jess from VA]

If you boogered the metric hex head, can you tap in an SAE allen socket the next size bigger. 

(I use 3/8" allen sockets not allen wrenches)

Heat is the recognized way to defeat red loctite.

[Slvrvalk1]

I realized after I posted the question, that the thread compound on this bolt is probably not red loctite.  From the Loctite web site, it says that parts cannot be separated without heating to 500 degrees when red loctite has been used.  Since the other bolts on the bike come apart with wrenches, I suspect that the thread sealant used was not red loctite, but some other adhesive that happens to be red.  Kawasaki is probably not buying Loctite from the US manufacturer.

I just need to get a better angle for leverage with my vise-grips to get this bolt out.


Dave

[Alaskamike]

I HATE it when that happens!   I hope you already have that bolt out,,, but if not I do have a few ideas that have worked for me in the past.
1.  You do have to heat to 500 degrees + for red locktight, but it is probabale that this is not needed to get this bolt loose.   Any heat, applied directly to the bolt area will help.  What you have to do is heat up the metal around the bolt, that the bolt is seated in, so that it expands.  The bolt is harder than the surrounding metal seat.  If you are worried about heat there, try using a solder iron and hold it on the surrounding metal for a minute (not flame) and see if that helps.  This has worked for me in the past.
2.  Another help is VIBRATION.  Place a screwdriver on the head of the bolt and tap it several times.  Soemtiems the vibration will crack the seal, rust, locktight or whatever is holding it.
3.  After the vibration, put some WD40 around bolt.  Then tap it a few more times.  The vibration may help the WD40 get where it needs to go.
Good luck

[R J]

If you boogered the metric hex head, can you tap in an SAE allen socket the next size bigger. 

(I use 3/8" allen sockets not allen wrenches)

 

If all else fails, use the above mentioned SAE allen socket and a hand held impact tool.    The one when ya turn the top in the direction of the bolt to go and tap it rather hard with a hammer.    About the 3rd or 4th tap it usually comes loose, so as to be able to back it out.    Just takes patience, when a lot of times i do not have.

[Westsider]

on any fastener that i know is going to be stuborn i always put some// stickem///a.k.a.-valve grinding compound-- on whatever tool im using/driver tips /allen head sockets or wrenches/whatever/ usually never strip out fastener head with it///carful though//more suseptible to breaking off fastener head......good luck,,,and you have a c14 to///you da man....

[valkmc]

I also doubt it is red loctite, Don't think Kawai would be using it but could be wrong, Great combo the valk and the C14. I have the same. Use the allen head method I had to do it several times and it works great.

[greggh]

Put heat on it.
Should back right out.

[Slvrvalk1]

Thanks everyone for the advice.  I would have tried the next size bigger allen head socket, but in my wisdom, or lack thereof. I cut the head of the bolt off, and I thought that I could drill it and use an easy out.  That proved not to be a good choice.

I had to take the radiator off the bike so that I could get the right leverage on the bolt, and I was able to remove it with a vise-grips.

Here is the bike before I started.  I do not have  picture with some of the plastic removed.



Dave

[MarkT]

I also subscribe to the vibration applied with torque technique.  If I get a stubborn fastener that doesn't break loose with normal torque, to where I think it's seized - I'll hit it with everything I've got (except heat) on the first try after that.  Reason being, I don't want to go half-assed, and damage the fastener without moving it.  Meaning - I'll mix 50-50 acetone & ATF and apply, let it soak a bit.  Apply as much torque as I think it will stand without breaking, then shock it.  Either with a manual impact driver (that applies torque and shock simultaneously - kind of a screwdriver with twist threads internally that you smack with a hammer.)  If that doesn't do it, I don't increase the torque.  I get out the torch and add heat, and repeat the same methods with heat.  This nearly always works. You can also use a socket wrench with breaker bar on a hex nut or bolt head, give it the torque that won't break the fastener, and smack the back of the breaker bar with a ball pein. Don't abuse your Snap-on or Matco wrenches that way - save that for the Harbor Freight junk.  BTW - a regular air impact driver can be effective at removing seized fasteners too.  Just don't turn it up too high.

[Walküre]

Thanks everyone for the advice.  I would have tried the next size bigger allen head socket, but in my wisdom, or lack thereof. I cut the head of the bolt off, and I thought that I could drill it and use an easy out.  That proved not to be a good choice.

I had to take the radiator off the bike so that I could get the right leverage on the bolt, and I was able to remove it with a vise-grips.


Dave

Glad you got'er done, Dave.

Another method, if a person has access, is to take a nut, put it over the top part of the broken/cut off bolt (or stud), and take a mig welder, and quickly "zap" the inside of the nut, to the bolt, partially filling the hole. In essence, this makes it a bolt again, plus the quick heat of the welding breaks any locktite or corrosion loose, plus the area surrounding it doesn't get very hot, since MOST of the heat goes into the broken bolt, and nut. Simply use a wrench, or impact preferred, if you have one, to back it out.

We used to do this a LOT in the old flathead ford motors - there are a few studs that invariably break off. I've had to re-do the weld 5 or 6 times, as the corrosion in a 60 year old block can be really tenacious.

[valkyriemc]

Yo, nice pic. I once had a '46 Ford, peeps thought it looked like a volvo! O' well.

[Blackduck]

Re welding nuts onto studs,
 MIG's are not too bad but if using a stick welder you tend to end up with slag inside the nut and a poor weld.
You will get a better result by first placing a washer over the stud and welding it to the stud. You get  better weld as you can clearly see what you are welding. Then weld a nut on top of the washer. Let it cool then work it both ways until it comes free.
Cheers Steve

[Rocketman]

Side note:
If it's red and in threads, but not loctite, I would guess that it's RTV sealant.  You mentioned the radiator.  Those bolt holes probably lead into a water channel, and need to be re-sealed when you put the bolts back in.
I might be wrong, but it's something to check before you get things back together.