High Speed Wobble

[Des]

Got a question and looking for some advice.  Really baffled and have limited knowledge so I really don't know what else to look for.

Last fall Kendall and I went Dark Side on both our bikes.  We now have all three of our Valks running the same tires (E3 on front - Dark side on back)  If it matters what kind of back tire --- Kendall can go check and chime in (I'm on the road in Iowa -- missing my husband and my Valk --- not saying which I miss more   
 
Before we took our big trip to Louisiana last fall -- we had new tires put on my 97 Standard.  Almost immediately I noticed a wobble in the front end at higher speeds.  BigBF is our mechanic and he immediately began to look for the obvious.  Tire is balanced -- front forks are sound - even broke down the steering and retightened everything.  Decided my Progressives were shot so he swapped them out for a set of OEM shocks.  Everything he did -- helped but didn't resolve the problem.
 
However it was an obvious improvement.  Now I can ride along at normal speeds -- can even let go and she'll run down the highway just as smooth and straight as can be.  But if I kick it up to pass a vehicle -- get around 80 - or higher (85 really gets wild to a point I have to drop off the throttle and slow down to get her smoothed out).


Now -- I'm on the larger end of the scale -- no need to discuss details -- but it was one of the variables Kendall, BigBF and I discussed.  Kendall doesn't seem to notice the issue much at all -- Bill noticed a little more and I notice it A LOT!  (side note --- My 97 and Kendall's 98 are set up almost identical and I've never noticed this issue riding Noisy (the 98) -- really makes it more confusing --- )

 
So my question is --- to my fellow Dark Side riders (especially those of you who tend to love life & dinner time as heartily as I do) --- has any of you experienced a high speed wobble -- in your opinions do you think it could be remotely related to the combination of E3 + Dark side?
 
We're considering having Bill swap the front tire off our 98 Standard (Noisy) with my 97 Standard to see if possibly it's the rim -- the tire -- something?!
 
May is coming up soon and we'll be heading out on the road again --- for the most part I'm perfectly comfortable riding my dragon -- but when I need to twist the throttle and move along at a higher speed it is unnerving as HELL to experience this wobble.
 
I need some hints --- ideas as to what the hell could we look for next - where do we go from here?  It's obviously not right!!
 
Thanks in advance for the help and your time.
 
Des

[Gunslinger]

I make no claims of expertise, just basing my response on personal experience.

I think that the specifics on the tire are critical info here. We have tried a handful of DS options and the problems with Tank Slap such as you describe seem to be directly proportionate to the tire. Specifically, stiff sidewalls seem to reduce/eliminate this 'wobble' while softer sidewalls seem to accentuate the problem. in testing different setups we have seriously over-pressured some really cheap crappy tires (effectively stiffening them) making drastic improvements to handling.

A close friend and member has put forth a hypothesis that the Fat Lady has a tendency to slightly 'sway' the rear as she rides down the road which causes some of the increased rear tire wear we see with MC tires. When running a DS tire with a soft sidewall the increased traction keeps the tire from wandering slightly, but the flex in the sidewall transmits the movement to the frame causing it to begin moving and creating a 'wobble' in the handlebars. Stiffer sidewalls reduce this wobble.

It's a theory and has not been well tested, and I will let him chime in to correct my poor interpretation if he chooses as I admittedly do not understand the mechanics of the issue all that well. But I do know from personal experience that the key to my love and happiness with the DS was finding a tire that performs well.

[Gunslinger]

Also, as an owner of three Valks, and having experienced riding several others, each of these bikes seems to feel and run a bit differently. Some (all things being more or less equal) seem to be more prone to 'wobble' or Tank Slap than others.

I gather from your post that the wobble was not present before the DS conversion, so I would certainly look closely at that being the problem.

[Cattman]

Check the rear bearings.

[MP]

I have 97 std and 01 IS, both DS running 28# pressure.  I have had both bikes up over 110 mph, without wobble. So, I do not know if you can ascribe it to either DS or to low pressures, as Gunslinger stated. I have no doubt higher pressures worked for him, but I have no problems at the lower pressures, in fact, I went to them, because I had handling problems with higher pressures.  I know low pressures work for others.

Seems like different bikes/different owners experience different things.  I would try out higher pressures, ie 40# or so, and I would also try out 28# too. See what happens.  BTW, I weigh 250#, so whatever your weight is, it will not be an issue at 28#.  LOL

Good luck.  Are your shock bushings good?  I have heard that affects handling.

MP

[Challenger]

Des: I have a Good Year TT on my I/S and have played around with pressures quite a bit, I like the feel and ride at around 30 to 32 PSI, however at that pressure when I get above 85 or 90 MPH I get a scary rear end wiggle. At 36 PSI or above it completely disappears. The same thing happened on my STD when I had a GTT on that. Riding around local on weekends I run 32 PSI, but on vac I crank it up to 36 for the super slab.

[R J]

Two things.   Play with the rear tire pressure.

I run a Good Year Alliance Triple Tread at 36#.     That fits my 260 # fat ass the best.

If that doesn't help. try one more thing.

PULL the windshield off.  If it goes away, have BiilF make sure all the brackets are aligned correctly.

Had that happen on a shield replacement with MGM.

Good luck..........

[Daniel Meyer]

The wobble starting around 80 is indicative of something pretty serious...80 is not a high-speed wobble...it's a regular speed wobble!

Since so pronounced and at that low speed I would strongly suspect a bad tire (bulge or out of round). Could be front or rear. They both need to be checked very closely.

Next I would check swing arm bearings and shock bushings, after that, the front steering bearings again...often they need replaced rather than adjusted (they get "indexed")

Also, if the bike has more than 45k on it and they have not been replaced the front fork bushings could be worn.

My bet is on a bad tire though...

[Ricky-D]

All the replies and I failed to find any comment regarding the new front tire!

I'll tell you exactly what the wobble is from.

It's the new front E-3 tire.   The reason I feel so sure about this is because I had the same problem. I posted that fact on this forum quite a bit ago and am not interested in finding it but,

It turned out to be the new E-3 tire I installed.  Lower pressure seemed to make it worse and high pressure helped, but the wobble was ever present.

As I took the bike for the first spin last year with a new Shinko front tire it was like a brand new bike.

The wobble was gone!

So all these replies about the rear tire, suspension, bushings and springs are well meaning but not really cogent nor applicable here in this case.

It's the front tire!

***

[csj]

Well I have practical experience here. I replaced the rear metzeler
with a car tire, Hercules 205-60-16, and got one awful wobble above
80mph. (Oh 40# f/r).
Struggled with it for a while, then heard advice that the shock
bushings could be culprit. Pulled the shocks and found the
bushings on my oem shocks were completely mashed.

I ordered in a new set of rubber ones, got myself down to
the big highway, got over 100mph, wobble was almost gone.

I've tried several time since new bushings to go over 100mph,
no real wobble remaining. Sweet.

And after 1 1/2 yrs, car tire looks brand new.

[longrider]

I have not run a c/t on my valk however I did have a high speed sway when I installed a new E-3.  Replaced it with less than 200 miles on it it and the sway was gone.  Some valks just don't like that E-3.
That was 2 years ago,  I have stayed with the Cobras since.

[old2soon]

As soon as i replaced the shock bushings i had basically gotten a new ride. I have removed the dunlop e-3s front and rear. As soon as i get er off the lift with the general 205-60-16 ultimax hp d/s rear and a metzler 880 on the front and get the pressures sorted out i'll post again and let ya'll know. All that being said-check the shock bushings. RIDE SAFE. 

[Skinhead]

I had the same issue on Chenaynay when I first got her with E3's front and back.  Metzler 880 front darkside rear now, no problem.  Get rid of the E3.

[Warlock]

Had same problem on both of mine. I switched to a V rated rear C/T instead of a H. V has a stiffer sidewall. Also chaned shock bushings. Pulled swingarm,no problem found, checked steering head bearings, no problem found. I myself don't like the E3 tires. I'm running a Avon 130/90/17 rear tire on the front turned backward on both of my bikes. Both has different rear tires. Had both of them well above 110 each and steady as could be. So far as the front tires well pleased so far.
David

[Kendall]

Little added info>>>  Des's Car tire is a Falken 205/65R16  95H,  with a E3 front. The same set up is on the 99 interstate and the 98 (noisey) . Her bike and noisey are set up the same.   I have got a very very slight wobble from her bike twice before switching her rear shocks and both times were on freeway passing cars. Des hasnt felt a wobble on noisey.  Weve both wore out front E3s 3 or 4 times on her bike and noisey, so thats the tire weve been running for years and havent had a problem before. Sure hope to get hers fixed before vacation.....

[gordonv]

My first thought was since you are in the lucky situation that you have 3 bikes, if you don't already have a spare set of front/rear rims with mounted tires on them for all of you, you could swap out the rims from another bike. If you have one bike set up with a different brand of tires, then start there.

I like the suggestion of the pressure in the tires, go back to max air, test ride, and adjust from there.

[bigdog99]

All the replies and I failed to find any comment regarding the new front tire!

I'll tell you exactly what the wobble is from.

It's the new front E-3 tire.   The reason I feel so sure about this is because I had the same problem. I posted that fact on this forum quite a bit ago and am not interested in finding it but,

It turned out to be the new E-3 tire I installed.  Lower pressure seemed to make it worse and high pressure helped, but the wobble was ever present.

As I took the bike for the first spin last year with a new Shinko front tire it was like a brand new bike.

The wobble was gone!

So all these replies about the rear tire, suspension, bushings and springs are well meaning but not really cogent nor applicable here in this case.

It's the front tire!

***

i agree 100%, i still have the E-3 in the garage. am running bias now and absolutely no wobble.

[Buda]

Great just put an E3 on the front  ....it was the only tire I could find that anybody local had on hand.  When it gets a little warmer I will find out if its a problem.....doubt it tho as mine is a 97 and I hear that was the best year 

[wizard -vrccds#125]

all good advise ! give me a call if you cant sort it out ! May have to make a road trip       

[PAVALKER]

I tried E3s on my VTX... and the front never felt right, a bounce a wiggle etc.  It was balanced but still had the issue from day one.  Changed tires and ..... problem solved.


As you indicated, it appears to get a little better with everything done, but doesn't quite go away.  I think all those things help but until you try to swap out the tire.... you won't know for sure if that is it.
 

[eric in md]

front tar also    e3 or anything that says dunflop anit worth looking at.. was going to say my 2 cents but im broke ,,

[PhredValk]

Since purchased last spring I have E3s on my I/S and can't ride without at least one hand on the bars on the hiway. My old GL1100 I could go for 5KM without touching the bars (just to see if I could) with a Bridgestone rear and a Shinko front. I won't buy E3s again.
Just my 2 cents (Cdn).
Fred.

[Mr. Nuts]

High speed wobble at 95 mph with a Falken rear and Avon front. Went away when I went back to an Avon rear. If I had to guess in my case I would say that certain tread mismatches front to rear can cause this.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I've stated my opinion on here many times about the DunFlop E3 ...I would'nt have one on my bike if they gave them to me with free mounting.

[Slammer]

brought my front wheel to Baton Rouge yesterday and had a E-3 mounted. I put it back together this afternoon and took a test ride up to around 115 and didn't feel anything wierd. I'm running a Hankook 225/55R-16 and had a Metzler on front before with no problems. I will give the old girl a good shake down tomorrow and report back. Headed to GOTF next week and know I my have to excede the speed limit a few times, sure don' want any problems.

Slammer