Upset a bit

[Westernbiker]

Today I went to a Subway for lunch. I noticed a local sheet metal union worker that had his union T-shirt on. It had a rattle snake in the logo and the motto at the bottom of the shirt said: 'Provoke me and I'll strike' Maybe it's just me but I did not like what I read. How about: 'Local ### 'building quality for our future' or something like that. Like I said, maybe it's just me, or is it?

[The Purple Haze]

The economy is in the dumpster with 20 million people out of work and 15 million illegal aliens wanting his job and he's going to go on strike?  Good luck with that!!!

[HotRod]

Maybe it's me but I take that statement as "I will physically assault you" I could be wrong but some recent congressman said something to the effect of unions advocating violence.

[Westernbiker]

Maybe it's me but I take that statement as "I will physically assault you" I could be wrong but some recent congressman said something to the effect of unions advocating violence.

Never thought of it that way.
Hope you are doing better bro!
I'll be thinking and praying for ya!

[bigvalkriefan]

Yeah I took it to mean something physical too. The way the SEIU has been talking lately these protests that have been happening might just get a little more violent. They are getting desperate so they have to turn to violence to try to keep their sweet pension deals.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

[Buda]

Strength in Solidarity
Stand tall with union
          Pride

Is what the shirt I wore to work today has one it as well as the local # 

[fudgie]

No offense Joe but its law we get time and a half. Really dont think unions have any thing to do with it. Had a 100 hrs last 2 weeks at my f/t job and another 96 this 2 week period. Those were paid hours, add another 40 or more I was at my job and didnt get paid. 

[PharmBoy]

As Joe has already implied, the unions in times past have been instrumental in bringing the American worker out from under the thumb of big companies who underpaid and overworked the individual worker.  For these accomplishments, the unions were absolutely necessary and have my undying gratitude.  However, in recent times the union bosses have used the huge amounts of money collected from members to influence elections so that those elected officials would return the favor by passing legislation favorable to the union.  These practices have left Cal., Wis., Ohio, Conn, and many other states so deeply in debt that they can no longer live up to the financial promises of the legislators of the past.  Recently, as we have seen in Wis., if the union did not win at the ballot box, they took to the streets, stormed the capitol building, marched on elected official's homes, and disrupted the normal activities of government in every way possible.  At the present, unions from many other states are gathering money to assist those unions in Wis. in the recall efforts of duly elected officials who did not vote the way that the union wanted them to vote.  I always thought that the "American Way" to change government was to wait until the next election and then vote in the individuals that you wanted to run the government for the next term.  But then, my way of thinking may be a little outdated because I still believe in the "Bill Of Rights" and "The Constitution Of The United States"...JTL

[BF]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too. 

[Skinhead]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too. 

Don't mean to start anything, but I disagree with both of you.  Unions did help the workers at one time and were necessary.  I was a member of the Painters Union, all they did for me was take dues every month, charge a $375 initiation fee (1977 $'s) and protect the jobs of some of my union "brothers" that didn't want to work.  I think it is unrealistic for union members (some not all) to feel that in this day and age they should not have to contribute to their health care costs.  Why should the people that buy the cars they assemble pay for their health care?

I'm not a union hater, or union member hater.  I just think they need to be realistic and flexible, and when some dirt bag deserves to be fired, let him go.  There are a ton of unemployed, under paid workers out there who will gladly step up, pay their dues, and be grateful for the better work rules, better pay, and better benefits.  Sure the unions negotiated those for their members, but the employer is entitled to an honest days work for what he pays.

That's my opinion, I respect yours, please do the same.

[GreenLantern57]

No offense Joe but its law we get time and a half. Really dont think unions have any thing to do with it. Had a 100 hrs last 2 weeks at my f/t job and another 96 this 2 week period. Those were paid hours, add another 40 or more I was at my job and didnt get paid. 

Are you really that un-informed. You get time and half for overtime, because of the unions fighting the corporations and then the unions forcing the government to estabilish min. wages and time and half for overtime, paid holidays. Until the unions started influencing government, they kept out of corporations and the way they treated thier workers. As far as I know, no owner ever went to jail for hiring private security firms that opened fire and killed striking workers.  Yes, guys like Carnagie, Rockerfeller hired people to kill striking workers.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride  

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too.  

Don't mean to start anything, but I disagree with both of you.  Unions did help the workers at one time and were necessary.  I was a member of the Painters Union, all they did for me was take dues every month, charge a $375 initiation fee (1977 $'s) and protect the jobs of some of my union "brothers" that didn't want to work.  I think it is unrealistic for union members (some not all) to feel that in this day and age they should not have to contribute to their health care costs.  Why should the people that buy the cars they assemble pay for their health care?

I'm not a union hater, or union member hater.  I just think they need to be realistic and flexible, and when some dirt bag deserves to be fired, let him go.  There are a ton of unemployed, under paid workers out there who will gladly step up, pay their dues, and be grateful for the better work rules, better pay, and better benefits.  Sure the unions negotiated those for their members, but the employer is entitled to an honest days work for what he pays.

That's my opinion, I respect yours, please do the same.

I work hard for my money and I don't have anyone other than myself paying my insurance . I put 15% of everything I make in a retirement plan so no one is paying for that but me as well.I've worked on the road for close to 25 years now being away from home when my kids was small now still doing it with my grand-kids....I earn my money  

[Jess Tolbirt]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too. 

And you want to put up how much on this bet? IBEW local 429 drove me into bankruptsy...
for the last 8 years now i have not missed a paycheck and all my bills are paid....for 8 months a year for the previous 4 years i sat on the books and that means no income, unless you want to collect unemployment, yea i know you paid into it so why not?  to me thats welfare...I would rather work for 3 dollars less an hour and not worry about where my next meal is comming from,,i can go on and on but i wont,,,, and no I do not hate unions, i made a nice living for 30 years, then had to use up all my pension just to get by....
oops got a button pushed there, and didnt mean to...

[Russell Rice]

I have been in the I.B.E.W for 20 years now and dang proud of it 

[HotRod]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

I don't need no union to negotiate my pay,and as far my kids I'm sending them to collage so they don't have to either! Nobody said anything about hating the union,I'm just stating facts, and I'm not part of one,if you read that as union hating then maybe they have gotten to you as well.

[Jess Tolbirt]

well Russell,
I hope and pray that what happened to me doesnt happen to you,,
of course if you are a Mason then it wont,,,funny how when you get to the top of the list and a long call comes in and you go for it that some one with a 4 year old sign date gets it....yep had his ring on...
my Dad was a Shriner and he lived a very good life,,,i should have followed in his foot steps i guess....

[bigvalkriefan]

[/quote]


And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too. 

[/quote]

I was a member of the CWA for 6 years back when I was with Ma Bell. I saw slackers get protection they didn't deserve. I had the one's that had been there a while tell me to "slow it down, whats the hurry, your gonna make us look bad, they'll expect us all to do that". Unions had their day and did a lot of good but they have become just as corrupt as the politicians.

[bigvalkriefan]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

I don't need no union to negotiate my pay,and as far my kids I'm sending them to collage so they don't have to either! Nobody said anything about hating the union,I'm just stating facts, and I'm not part of one,if you read that as union hating then maybe they have gotten to you as well.

You know how it works Hotrod. If you don't accept the gay agenda then your a homophobe, if you don't like Obama as president your a racist, if you don't agree with the unions your a union hater and it goes on and on. They only scream that to try and shut you up, play on your fears. Sorry, I don't play that.

[Skinhead]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride  

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too.  

Don't mean to start anything, but I disagree with both of you.  Unions did help the workers at one time and were necessary.  I was a member of the Painters Union, all they did for me was take dues every month, charge a $375 initiation fee (1977 $'s) and protect the jobs of some of my union "brothers" that didn't want to work.  I think it is unrealistic for union members (some not all) to feel that in this day and age they should not have to contribute to their health care costs.  Why should the people that buy the cars they assemble pay for their health care?

I'm not a union hater, or union member hater.  I just think they need to be realistic and flexible, and when some dirt bag deserves to be fired, let him go.  There are a ton of unemployed, under paid workers out there who will gladly step up, pay their dues, and be grateful for the better work rules, better pay, and better benefits.  Sure the unions negotiated those for their members, but the employer is entitled to an honest days work for what he pays.

That's my opinion, I respect yours, please do the same.

I work hard for my money and I don't have anyone other than myself paying my insurance . I put 15% of everything I make in a retirement plan so no one is paying for that but me as well.I've worked on the road for close to 25 years now being away from home when my kids was small now still doing it with my grand-kids....I earn my money  

That's good to know Joe, and I applaud you for it.  I made a lot of general statements, and I realize that there are vast differences, I was drawing on my own experiences and exposure, particularly, the UAW.  When they were talking about trying to get the members to pay some of their HC costs, one member called in to a talk show saying, My union negotiated it and that's my right.  Well, a lot of folks are buying foreign because it's cheaper with out the $1500/vehicle in the US price tag that goes to pay UAW HC costs.  

I realize all union members are not in the same boat, I'm sure there are many different situations.  I shouldn't generalize, and like you I pay my HC, retirement, disability ins, etc.  But not everyone does.  

I'm not sticking up for the big bonuses the big shots get either.  Folks are way too greedy, I think.  

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride  

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too.  

Don't mean to start anything, but I disagree with both of you.  Unions did help the workers at one time and were necessary.  I was a member of the Painters Union, all they did for me was take dues every month, charge a $375 initiation fee (1977 $'s) and protect the jobs of some of my union "brothers" that didn't want to work.  I think it is unrealistic for union members (some not all) to feel that in this day and age they should not have to contribute to their health care costs.  Why should the people that buy the cars they assemble pay for their health care?

I'm not a union hater, or union member hater.  I just think they need to be realistic and flexible, and when some dirt bag deserves to be fired, let him go.  There are a ton of unemployed, under paid workers out there who will gladly step up, pay their dues, and be grateful for the better work rules, better pay, and better benefits.  Sure the unions negotiated those for their members, but the employer is entitled to an honest days work for what he pays.

That's my opinion, I respect yours, please do the same.

I work hard for my money and I don't have anyone other than myself paying my insurance . I put 15% of everything I make in a retirement plan so no one is paying for that but me as well.I've worked on the road for close to 25 years now being away from home when my kids was small now still doing it with my grand-kids....I earn my money  

That's good to know Joe, and I applaud you for it.  I made a lot of general statements, and I realize that there are vast differences, I was drawing on my own experiences and exposure, particularly, the UAW.  When they were talking about trying to get the members to pay some of their HC costs, one member called in to a talk show saying, My union negotiated it and that's my right.  Well, a lot of folks are buying foreign because it's cheaper with out the $1500/vehicle in the US price tag that goes to pay UAW HC costs.  

I realize all union members are not in the same boat, I'm sure there are many different situations.  I shouldn't generalize, and like you I pay my HC, retirement, disability ins, etc.  But not everyone does.  

I'm not sticking up for the big bonuses the big shots get either.  Folks are way too greedy, I think.  

We are cool my friend 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

My Dad was a union Iron Worker and a better man than me every day of his life. He's been gone since 1977 and I still miss him everyday. I well remember him talking about manning a picket line with an axe handle, I was proud of him then and I'm proud of him now.

I've worked for several unions over the years although I don't now. My wife and I both worked for the Grain Millers union when we met, we had better insurance, better working conditions and made better money because of it.

Don't get me wrong, we worked in 105 degree temps, we frequently worked 7 days a week, we saw men and women get maimed or badly injured and we were exposed to asbestos but it was still a better job because of the union. I spent one shift there looking for the end of a buds finger and we never did find it.  Mel and I saw another friend get crushed and nearly killed while installing a blower there. He wound up with a ruptured spleen, broken ribs and cracked vertebra but survived thankfully.

Neither one of us works for union plants now, and that's fine with both of us. But, because we work in a community with several union plants we make more money and have better benefits because our employers have to compete with the union plants for workers.

I'd virtually guarantee that shirt was talking violence, not just a "strike". And the truth is, wither you're fighting to protect your ability to feed you family on the picket line or you're fighting to feed your family by taking away someone else's job by crossing a picket line, you're on the verge of violence either way.

If you think corporate America has no conscious now, imagine what it would be like if they didn't have to worry that their workers will organize if they treat them too badly.

[Warlock]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too. 

I use to work union job with the Railroad. Not a real good opinion on that. Union jobs started out with good intensions, but somehow got lost along the way. Not all union jobs are bad. I work non union now and let's say I live very well.
David

[alph]

Don’t worry, that shirt was most likely made in communist china, with child labor.  You should have pointed that out to the guy, that probably would have gotten his “snake” mad….
There are still some good reasons for unions, I just don’t have any…

[Linedog]

I'm sorry guys but I've got to agree with Skinhead,  I spent 30 years in the federal government.  I was a Union member and I was in management.  What turned me against the union was a time where one of my Detention Officers was arrested riding down the road on his motorcycle with known gang members and they found a sawed off shotgun in his saddlebags.  You know the union came forward to "protect" him from getting fired. A law enforcement officer with gang members and a sawed off shotgun and they wanted to protect him!! I am sorry but the union has done good in the past but now its just greed and what can I get from the employer, which in this case the taxpayer. Local unions I have no problem with that's their perogative. however, union benefits are prrobably partly responsibile for running jobs out of the country.  That s something they need to address in a realistic manner.  Government unions I have a big problem with.  The government employee both local and Federal have good paying jobs , job security, retirement, health care and they always want more. When does the taxpaying public get relief from their greed!  Thats my rant and humble opinion.  If I offended anyone just take it as the ramblings of an old man and please don't take it personal. Linedog

[Steve K (IA)]

No offense Joe but its law we get time and a half. Really dont think unions have any thing to do with it. Had a 100 hrs last 2 weeks at my f/t job and another 96 this 2 week period. Those were paid hours, add another 40 or more I was at my job and didnt get paid. 

Hey Brian,
Just how do you think the overtime laws came about?  Unions!

 

[9Ball]

Having worked both sides of the fence in union shops and also private versus government, I have seen first hand some of the points made here....

My question is, what have the unions done for us lately?  The occupational safety, working hours, and equitable pay are things of the distant past...and the unions had a major part in these improvements. 

With almost everyone in the non-union and private sectors paying a lot more for less benefits for health care and retirement there is a perception of greed when entities like the NJ teachers union draws a hard line at not contributing anything towards healthcare and receiving a retirement many times better than private sector workers with equal or greater skills and credentials.  These people did give up some short-term compensation for the security of better long-term benefits and retirement.  Things are different now and there needs to be some changes.  Our politicians have robbed from every fund they could and we are now in the position where there is no more money to pay for the promises made.  Unfortunately, the people that made these decisions are not in a place where they can be held accountable and the cleanup is left to us.  This means a sacrifice falls to all of us, some through higher taxes and less services and others to contributing a reasonable amount to their current and future benefits.  I don't like this anymore than the next guy, but threatening violence isn't the way to go.  I doubt that any here would be wearing such a T-shirt that the OP described, but there are jerks on every side of an issue...

Hate to jump into the fray, but there's a bad portrayal of striking govenrment employees violently seeking benefits (whether a threat or actual) that the taxpayers find hard to comprehend.  It almost comes off as an entitlement when the rest of us are struggling to make house payments and maintain the American dream we have worked our entire life trying to obtain.

[Varmintmist]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

And I'd bet that most of them have never been in a union, have never delt with a union and don't really have a clue what a union is.  They just hate 'em because the news tells them too. 

I'll take some of that action, how much you want to go for? I carry a 100.00 that is pretty old in my wallet that I use to bet. It started as a five. Unless you want to go 401K to 401K.

I was CWA until:
1. They refused to get the locals together to get a better contract. That would have cut into the fifedoms of the labor leaders, who all showed up in Caddies and Lincolns btw.
2. The told me that the strike fund I had been paying into was for when "(a different company) goes on strike, not you guys"
3. I watched the CWA screw us in favor of other companies by not negotiating, just showing up at the end and saying "this is the last best". Currently, the "other company" workers in starting jobs are about 5 bucks an hour ahead of where I am in one of the highest pay rate jobs.
4. I was a paying member until I was asked to voice my opinion and was told to shut up when I gave it. The day that happened I shut my wallet.

[Romeo]

This board is full of union haters....When your kids and grand-kids are working for nothing 70 and 80 hours a week with no over-time I'd bet the river bottom farm all of you will be singing a new tune....If your kids and grand-kids make a decent wage and if they work over 40 hours and get paid over-time then be sure to thank a union....The only union shirts I have just has my local # on them and I wear them with pride 

I don't need no union to negotiate my pay,and as far my kids I'm sending them to collage so they don't have to either! Nobody said anything about hating the union,I'm just stating facts, and I'm not part of one,if you read that as union hating then maybe they have gotten to you as well.

[Bobbo]

I was a member of the CWA for 6 years back when I was with Ma Bell. I saw slackers get protection they didn't deserve. I had the one's that had been there a while tell me to "slow it down, whats the hurry, your gonna make us look bad, they'll expect us all to do that". Unions had their day and did a lot of good but they have become just as corrupt as the politicians.

I used to be a member of USW local 3643 back when I was a mobile machinery mechanic.  My experience was identical to yours.

[RainMaker]

My experience in a union was similar to bigvalkyriefan.  I was in a machine shop working on aircraft landing gear. There was one part in particular that was supposed to take 6-8 hours to finish.  I found a way to do it in 2 hours and was knocking out 4 in a shift.  Was told by my union steward to "slow it down" and then asked if I liked the windshield on my car.   I got the message, which was "go no faster than the slowest worker".  I left about 2 weeks later - just could not handle the idea of purposely not doing my job the best that I could.

Was also in a strike with that union.  They were not discussing with the workers what to do after the strike started and what the options were - they mostly discussed what they were going to do to the company's VP who was negotiating with the union "if they got the chance".  A lot of blowing hard and after 6 weeks, union caved in and management got all they asked for.  All the workers got was a 6 week hole in their paycheck.

I can't say if that is true of all unions - in fact, I'm sure it isn't.  Just my experience.

[Jeff K]

If you have a wonderful union... then voluntary sign up, and payment shouldn't be a problem. Why would you need a closed shop, and forced dues, if the benefits to this union are so fantastic?

[MP]

+1

[Kaiser]

I hate the Union.  Go Confederacy!  The South will rise again!

(Oh...sorry...wrong "Union") 

[Westernbiker]

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!!!!!!!! geez laweez this has gotton all blown out of content.    The origional post was about a CRAPPY MOTTO remember?   ???

'Provoke me and I'll strike' 

Hy Karamba I didn't know this was a touchy subject, I just thought the motto should be something positive instead of what it does say.

Sorry guys and gals to get everyones panties in a wad. 

Lets go for a ride and air out our heads. 

[Kaiser]

'Provoke me and I'll strike'  

Seems like that's also the motto of some here.  

[Varmintmist]

I don't hate unions. Collective barginaning is OK as long as the union is not big buisness. The problem with unions is that they ARE big buisness now, the leadership are against workers and out for their own pockets as much or more than a CEO because at least a CEO has to work for their position.

If you are ok with your union, great. I am not fond of this Democrat funding organized theft ring we have here.

Our contract is up this fall. Want to know the outcome?

Him, haw, make flyers about CEO compensation,  bluster for 2 weeks, take what was offered because its the last best, which will be a 1% raise and a 2% (base pay) increase in cost of bennies lose PTO time that was put in in leiu of sick time, pee and moan about the evil company, do nothing to actually organize all of the locals under a single contract or contract date, continue to collect dues from those who think the union is out to help them.


8 contracts, and this is the formula.