help with headlight problem

[Christbiker]

Hey all, yesterday my headlight, driving lights and amber rear lights went out.  Checked tech board late last night and got some hints but will tell you I'm no wrencher.  Everything else is fine and she starts right up.  This might be the kicker to somebody in the know---smelled what seemed like burning rubber or melting sheathing twice during the ride. Stopped and checked but couldn't see anything. New alternator installed by dealer 4 months ago.  Any help or suggestions from the intelligents would be greatly appreciated.  Blessings.  Woody

[Valkpilot]

Hey all, yesterday my headlight, driving lights and amber rear lights went out.  Checked tech board late last night and got some hints but will tell you I'm no wrencher.  Everything else is fine and she starts right up.  This might be the kicker to somebody in the know---smelled what seemed like burning rubber or melting sheathing twice during the ride. Stopped and checked but couldn't see anything. New alternator installed by dealer 4 months ago.  Any help or suggestions from the intelligents would be greatly appreciated.  Blessings.  Woody

It would appear that at least two different circuits are involved, unless there is a misunderstanding about the rear lights.

When you say amber rear lights, do you mean the turn signals, or has someone modified your rear signals to stay on all the time as running lights?  They normally only function as turn signals.

Do you know how the driving lights were added?  My fear is that they have been wired into the same cirucuit as the headlight without a separate relay and fuse.   If so, meltdown could occur in the starter switch, the headlight shell, or the fusebox, especially if someone over-fused the circuit after the driving lights were added.

Start by checking the fuse box.  It's under the right side cover, slightly to the left (rear of the bike).  It has a lid with the fuse labels on the underside.  Also check this area (under the side cover) for any other evidence of meltdown.

If the starter switch still works, I would next check inside the headlight shell for meltdown.


Simplified schematics are at Rattlebars web site  http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage01.html  You can start with S2 and S3 as these are the schematics that show the rear turn signal circuit and the headlight circuit.

This should get you started.  I'd love to help you out in person, but logistics prevent it at the moment.

[MP]

+1 on the amber rear lights.  They are only turn signals, they are not running lights, and are not on normally.  Unless someone changed them to be on.

MP

[5_19]

Hey all, yesterday my headlight, driving lights and amber rear lights went out.  Checked tech board late last night and got some hints but will tell you I'm no wrencher.  Everything else is fine and she starts right up.  This might be the kicker to somebody in the know---smelled what seemed like burning rubber or melting sheathing twice during the ride. Stopped and checked but couldn't see anything. New alternator installed by dealer 4 months ago.  Any help or suggestions from the intelligents would be greatly appreciated.  Blessings.  Woody

It would appear that at least two different circuits are involved, unless there is a misunderstanding about the rear lights.

When you say amber rear lights, do you mean the turn signals, or has someone modified your rear signals to stay on all the time as running lights?  They normally only function as turn signals.

Do you know how the driving lights were added?  My fear is that they have been wired into the same cirucuit as the headlight without a separate relay and fuse.   If so, meltdown could occur in the starter switch, the headlight shell, or the fusebox, especially if someone over-fused the circuit after the driving lights were added.

Start by checking the fuse box.  It's under the right side cover, slightly to the left (rear of the bike).  It has a lid with the fuse labels on the underside.  Also check this area (under the side cover) for any other evidence of meltdown.

If the starter switch still works, I would next check inside the headlight shell for meltdown.


Simplified schematics are at Rattlebars web site  http://www.rattlebars.com/valkfaq/schematics/rpage01.html  You can start with S2 and S3 as these are the schematics that show the rear turn signal circuit and the headlight circuit.

This should get you started.  I'd love to help you out in person, but logistics prevent it at the moment.

+1 on VP. I studied the circuits earlier and came to the that same conclusion! Start with fuses first and compare them to what should be in there OEM (if it is fused it was to high amperage rating because it didn't prevent a melt down) and check if you can find where the burning smell came from.

[Christbiker]

I think it was Will Rogers who said "everyboy is ignorant, only on different subjects".  Checked the fuses--here are the findings.
Had a 15 where it called for a 10  fixed that
the 10 for the headlight was blown  fixed that
the main? 30 amp was blown also and was melted along with slightly melting the red plastic housing where the wires come into it.  cleaned all up, new 30 amp, put back together and fired her up (no test drive yet) but all appears fine.
Now back to Mr. Rogers--Ignorant me is in awe of the caliber and sharing attitude of the people on this board.
I truly thank y'all (Rainmaker) and am Blessed to be a Valkyrie owner, to use it as a ministry tool and to be educated through this board.  Blessings, Woody

[Quicksilver]

Might I suggest you still have a problem. The fuses blew for a reason. Your driving lights are beyond OEM and would be the first suspect. Running power for them through a relay seperate from your main headlight might be an idea. The idea is to reduce the draw on a circuit to prevent too much current flow and heat as a result. Just a thought.

[Gear Jammer]

Might I suggest you still have a problem. The fuses blew for a reason. Your driving lights are beyond OEM and would be the first suspect. Running power for them through a relay seperate from your main headlight might be an idea. The idea is to reduce the draw on a circuit to prevent too much current flow and heat as a result. Just a thought.

Those who keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results,,,well,,,
Check out the wiring on those Driving lights, and do the relay fix previously mentioned.   You might also look into doing the Headlight "MOD" to taKe the load off your starter switch. Not too difficult.

[Valkpilot]

Quicksilver and Gear Jammer are correct that something is likely still wrong.  The 10 amp fuse that had been replaced with a 15 amp is a concern.  You didn't mention which circuit it was, but something has probably been added to it.

The problem with just over-fusing is that the wiring might not be big enough to handle the extra juice being pushed through it.  What happens is that the new fuse won't blow and instead heat builds up and begins to melt things.

Check the wattage on your driving lights.  If they are 35 watt lights (70 watts total), then added to the 60 watt high-beam, that circuit is pulling  10.8 amps on a 10 amp fuse and wiring.  Might not be enough to blow the fuse, but will definitely heat things up.  If your driving lights are 50 watt (100 watts total, then the load is over 13 amps, probably too much for the wiring even if a 15 amp fuse is substituted.

To further complicate things, Honda runs the headlight circuit through the starter switch.  The purpose for this is to cut off the lights during starting so that they aren't adding load to the battery as it fires the ignition.  But that also means that the all the juice of the headlights passes through the starter switch, with the potential for burning up the switch (actually welding the contacts.)

At the least, you should verify that your driving lights and headlight circuits are both isolated and run through a relay to avoid further problems.

[chauffeur]

This is a deja vu.  I had the exact thing happen on a used bike I bought 8 years ago.  After about 6 months of ownership, the bike failed to start and electrically started doing a bunch of crazy things.  Troubleshooting identified that the main wiring to the starter switch had overheated and caused multiple shorts.  Found that the previous owner had wired the driving lights in parallel with the high beam light.  To address the additional current required, he simply put a higher rate fuse in it.  Imagine that.

Here's my recommendations.   First, immediately determinate the driving lights.  That will limit any additional damage.  Second, I'd order and install a new starter switch.  It comes with the wiring that is most likely shorted.  Trust me, if you smelled smoke, it is damaged and will eventually fail on you.  Lastly, rewire the driving lights with using a relay.

[chauffeur]

Here's the part number:

SWITCH, STARTER STOP 35013-MBY-010     $58.26

[Christbiker]

y'all are so right.  right on the rear ambers--turn signals only
went for a test drive and blew another 10 amp
haven't determined is driving lights are wired with headlight yet, don't know how but will figure it out. I can say that with low beams on all 3 lights are on and high beam only the head light.  the wiring of the driving lights looks like the previous owner probably did it don't see any relays or fuses in obvious places
I'm assuming by starter switch one means the push in with your thumb by throttle and not the ignition.  also I added a wolo horn and didn't use the relay, so I put the old horn (not OEM) back in today. 

the headlight and both driving lights are 12volt 55 watts  ouch  now I bought the bike in Feb. and have put 2400 miles on her with the only problem being last night.  I very much appreciate all the help   Blessings

[Valkpilot]

y'all are so right.  right on the rear ambers--turn signals only
went for a test drive and blew another 10 amp
haven't determined is driving lights are wired with headlight yet, don't know how but will figure it out. I can say that with low beams on all 3 lights are on and high beam only the head light.  the wiring of the driving lights looks like the previous owner probably did it don't see any relays or fuses in obvious places
I'm assuming by starter switch one means the push in with your thumb by throttle and not the ignition.  also I added a wolo horn and didn't use the relay, so I put the old horn (not OEM) back in today.  

the headlight and both driving lights are 12volt 55 watts  ouch  now I bought the bike in Feb. and have put 2400 miles on her with the only problem being last night.  I very much appreciate all the help   Blessings

Woody, which 10 amp fuse is blowing?

Since the driving lights seem to be tied into the low beam side of the headlight circuit,you're pulling almost 14 amps through that circuit when the low-beam and driving lights are on.  There may be an in-line fuse in the driving light wiring someplace that's "assisting" in keeping the fuse in the fuse block from blowing.
  
You should only pull 5 amps with just the high-beam on, so you could ride with just the high-beams until you get them all separated.

[Christbiker]

The one marked Hlight in the 3rd position

[Valkpilot]

The one marked Hlight in the 3rd position

Pretty sure the driving lights are overloading.

[Christbiker]

I know I'm new here but maybe I can host a wrench party and we just overhaul this fat lady.
I'm sure you're right VP  Thanks for your time and help.  I may just disconnect them for now or ride in High beam fashion til I can fix properly.

[Valkpilot]

I know I'm new here but maybe I can host a wrench party and we just overhaul this fat lady.
I'm sure you're right VP  Thanks for your time and help.  I may just disconnect them for now or ride in High beam fashion til I can fix properly.

Green Lantern in the Panhandle wants a Wrench Party too.  Sounds like we need one up north here.

[godfire]

The one marked Hlight in the 3rd position

Pretty sure the driving lights are overloading.

hey hey hey ..... I'm still the electrical guy here!..... VP you didn't mention the extra drain caused by the Flux Capacitor, now did you!   Great job brother! Sounds like you are on the right track. 

[Valkpilot]

The one marked Hlight in the 3rd position

Pretty sure the driving lights are overloading.

hey hey hey ..... I'm still the electrical guy here!..... VP you didn't mention the extra drain caused by the Flux Capacitor, now did you!   Great job brother! Sounds like you are on the right track.  

Nor did I mention the cofarb decoupler.  Too much, too soon is as bad as no information at all, you know.

[Christbiker]

No no, I double checked the flux capacitor, it's still purple and blue and told me it's in great condition.
Now the cofarb decoupler and triple-er both looked old and rusted so I ordered new ones from Harley Davidson.  Should be in a about 22 months cuz they were on back order.  Big run on them right now with spring here.