Bolts From Brake Disk to Wheel

[97BLKVALK]

Good Evening Fat Lady Riders!

I see in the Service Manual that Honda requires bolt replacement, Just wanted opinions of who is and who's not and why.

Michael
2 in line

[bentwrench]

I've reused them.with blue pasty loctite.
bw

[John U.]

I have reused them also without problems. It may be Honda's legal department covering their azz.

[Hoser]

Same here, I only changed them when the allen heads start to round out.  Hoser

[sandy]

The factory bolts come preloaded with locktite. Honda is covering themselves for liability reasons. If you add Loctite blue, you're good to go.

[97BLKVALK]

That's what I was thinking but was covering my A_ _ too!


Michael

[98valk]

just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.

[R J]

just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.

10-04 on what he said here.

[9Ball]

I believe these are "stretch bolts" so the difference is not just the locktite.

Might want to confirm this as you are taking a risk re-using a stretch bolt, especially for something as important as a brake rotor.

Just an FYI....

[Bobbo]

I believe these are "stretch bolts" so the difference is not just the locktite.

Might want to confirm this as you are taking a risk re-using a stretch bolt, especially for something as important as a brake rotor.

Just an FYI....

There's really no such thing as a "stretch bolt".  All bolts stretch when tightened down, that's how they work.  Every time you remove and replace a bolt, especially at higher torques, you stretch it more.  After a while, it will be out of spec, and could fail.  Critical bolts in high torque applications are always recommended to be replaced with new bolts to achieve the proper torque and holding force.  Honda obviously considers the brake rotor bolts as critical, and requires replacement.

Can you re-use the bolts?  Sure, and most of the time you won't have a problem.  I would replace them if the were re-torqued more than twice.

[hubcapsc]

It is easy to find people talking about stretch bolts, the stretch bolt
kits you can buy seem to usually be associated with transmissions...

I don't think the manual sez our rotor bolts are stretch bolts, but if
they were stretch bolts, it would explain why Honda wants us to replace
them.

I wish they told us why they say some of these things...

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/stretchbolts.html

http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-prodshow/17193.html

-Mike

[B]

just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.

10-04 on what he said here.

Tell me about compensating ... I musta missed the fine print.
What's the rule of thumb?

[Bobbo]

It is easy to find people talking about stretch bolts, the stretch bolt
kits you can buy seem to usually be associated with transmissions...

I don't think the manual sez our rotor bolts are stretch bolts, but if
they were stretch bolts, it would explain why Honda wants us to replace
them.

I wish they told us why they say some of these things...

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/stretchbolts.html

http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-prodshow/17193.html

-Mike

Well, it HAS been 32 years since I was a mechanic.  No one ever called them "stretch bolts" back then, as all bolts stretch when tightened.

[9Ball]

the proper term is torque to yield, or TTY.

Stretch is a slang.....but common usage for this type of bolt.

[Ricky-D]

Most all bolts are elastic!

So most all bolts stretch. Some return to original and some do not.  It mainly depends upon the previous loading and material.

I don't think replacing the bolts is so necessary since they are mainly used in shear and the torque applied has only a little effect upon the shear rating of the bolt, new or used.  Mainly shear would be discussed when selecting materials and hardness of the bolt.

***

[98valk]

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2343/threaded_fasteners_torquetoyield_and_torquetoangle.aspx

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94440&page=3


from various searches, if the bolt has an initial torque requirement and then an additional turn 120 degrees then its a TTY bolt. So according to this the disk bolts are not.

[Bobbo]

just make sure u use a torque wrench and compensate for the blue lock-tite.

10-04 on what he said here.

Tell me about compensating ... I musta missed the fine print.
What's the rule of thumb?

Most torque specs are "dry torque", meaning the threads are clean and dry.  If you put a lubricant on the threads, you typically reduce the torque applied by as much as 25% (wet torque).  Since Loctite isn't much of a lubricant, I would reduce the torque from between 0% to 10%, depending on how much the Loctite lubed the threads.

[9Ball]

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2343/threaded_fasteners_torquetoyield_and_torquetoangle.aspx

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94440&page=3


from various searches, if the bolt has an initial torque requirement and then an additional turn 120 degrees then its a TTY bolt. So according to this the disk bolts are not.

that's good info....hope you're right.

[B]

Thanks Bobbo.

[Ricky-D]

Anything you use on a bolt will act as a lubricant.

Because it may not feel like oil, the bolt cant tell the difference. Oil or water it doesn't matter.

The small drive size is indicative of the force, designers envisioned.

The threads in the wheel are aluminum.

Extra care is needed to avoid stripping the threads out of the wheel.

Torque wrenches are notorious for being out of scale.

Helicoils might be in your future.

***

[98valk]

Torque wrenches are notorious for being out of scale.

That's why I only use a beam type torque wrench. Always calibrated by checking/centering the pointer before use.  building an engine or machinery then a clicker or digital type.
clicker types I agree, they need to be calibrated, most don't know that, and there goes the problems u mentioned.