any engineers willing to offer??

[Dogg]

ok, here is the destruction of yet, another 50-2 double roller chain.



I know the vent tube was clogged with grease so it couldnt breathe. I also know there was a clearence issue.



and I also know that this chain is rated at 16000 lbs per sq inch of pressure. so why did THIS happen??



Im calling the manufacturer tomorrow out in Ca. see if they can figure out how a motorcycle can destroy an industrial strength chain like this. last time, they didnt believe me. till I sent them the broken peices of their prestretched  super chain...any opinion is welcome(cept for the ones where I get picked on again for not having ample wrist control. thats a given...)

[old2soon]

Question of the uninformed. What the heck is it from??? I'll keep the guessing to meself!! When it broke-did it take anything else with it? RIDE SAFE.

[Grumpy]

From the look of that chain, it got extremely hot, heat will soften the metal. Just a mater of time before it would fail.

[art]

Looks like overheating due to sprocket rubbing on the case.Dose it run in oil or grease?Looks like it should be oil

[RoadKill]

I believe the angle of the dangle was disproportionate to the direction of a non specific erection.
Correction of the erection specification may be required! ! !     

[olddog1946]

From the looks of the sprockets and housing, I'd be thinking that hypoid oil might be a better option than grease...may conduct heat away, better than grease.

[MP]

+1 on using the hypoid oil.
 That baby looks like it got hot!
MP

[Skinhead]

I agree, it got HOT!  What rpm do those gears/shafts spin?

You definately have a clearence issue between the cover and sprocket on the left.  Is there any kind of thrust limiter so the sprocket doesn't contact the cover?

[Slammer]

to drive positive displacement pumps with hyd. motors with no problems. The sprockets and belt look just like the drive belt of a top fuel car. I used a 1 to 1 drive like you are useing with the width and thickness determined by H.P. needed.

Slammer

[John Schmidt]

+1 on the heat issue. I'm with the rest on that, heat letting the chain stretch, which in turn allowed contact with the case, causing additional heat. I'd sure follow the suggestion of an oil bath as opposed to the grease.

You have a great setup there, hate to see that mess. Did that happen along with the final drive failure you spoke of earlier? Looks like this may have been the cause of the final drive going south...freezing up and jamming the entire driveline. Wondering now if it may have damaged anything in the engine.

[RoadKill]

4x4 transfer cases,front wheel drive car transmissions and such run massive chains as well....they almost all are run in automatic transmission fluid . Maybe the high detergent qualities of the ATF has something to do with it  ??? 

[ArmyValker]

Remember, 16k lbs sq/in in ideal operating conditions (proper lubrication/heat range), change the operating temp, you sacrifice ideal lubrication and all bets are off.

[Dogg]

all the money I spent on the cryo treated titanium paid off. didnt hurt the final drive cept for the front seal. I got a spare.   the vent got clogged not letting the heat and pressure out. this used to run in an oiol bath but had a few issues with leage after a short time. went to the cv grease because it has super high temp qualities and lubricates better than any standard grease. I guess it still isnt enuff. Im going to make a 1/8th inch spacer for it and matt gaskets on either side of it. cut down on clearence problems. the heat generated I cant help since the exhaust dumps right at this thing.  maybe want thought out so well. but at any rate, Im adding another vent to it to try to relieve some of the heat.
 Yes it got very hot. burn the paint off of the plate and turned the chrome gold around the neck of the driveshaft tube. 
 I still expect to have this back togehter by the hillbilly run. shoudnt be a problem. as long as azuza engineering sells me more chain.

and old2soon, it is my valkyrie.... 

[Bobbo]

I'm thinking the original oil bath was to cool the drivetrain as well as lube it.

[DFragn]

What would it take to replace the sprocket/chain system with 3 straight-cut gears & a hypo gear oil bath?

[Dogg]

alot of money. the new drives this company makes(not for a valk anymore after all the crap with mine) for the vtx, M109 and meanstreak have the new gear drive. Ive spoken with a machinist who thinks he can do it, tho, Im not sure if I can afford to do it. itll be a winter project at best if I am able to go that route.

I just cut a piece of flat aluminum to use as a spacer with mat gasket on either side. see how it works once the new chain will come in. 

[Bobbo]

Since it looks like one sprocket is attached to the housing, and the other to the cover, you should be careful of the spacer thickness.  You don't want to add an offset to the chain path.  If you can offset the sprocket by the same amount of the spacer thickness, that would solve the problem.

[Stude]

Ever thought about a Gear Drive... or better yet  a cheap weak link ... like a Belt Drive.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

It's hard for me to tell without having it in front of me so take it with a big grain of salt. The clearance problem maybe the only problem. The heat it would generate could cook off the lubricant and possibly wear off the riveted ends of the chain. Either of those two things could kill it. As far as how to shim it to give you the clearance you need without causing a sprocket misalignment which would also lead to accelerated wear? I can't tell you from here.

In my experience, the plugged vent would first cause your oil to leak out, self destruction would quickly follow. Your clearance problem might not exist till things heat up. I've seen that happen before. Clean it all up, use dykum or something similar while running it slow or by hand to see if your clearance problems are fixed. But be aware that when heat makes it all expand you may run out of clearance again.

I'll be the first to tell you I've got no experience with what you are using this for. But I do have 35 years of industrial maintenance work and there are similarities.
Happy Trails

[Dogg]

frye, you are correct in what you are saying. I believe, with the vent clogged, the pressure was contained and heat had no real place to go, the friction from the lack of clearance was its demise. Ive had 2 people over to look at it, both machinists and we all came to the same conclusion....lack of clearance killed it.
 The original gasket was some sort of vuncalnized plastic, sort of. it was just under an 1/8th inch thick. the new gasket I used was steelplate and cork with heavy mat gasket on the outside. clearance was fine til it started to warm up. the cork cooked off and the rest is history. the aluminum space is going to take the place of the original gasket but, still have the heavy mat on the outside of it. I cant go to oil because of the bearings. they arent sealed and the oil would eventually run out of it. I am going to used a new CV grease(synthetic) that is designed for temps up to 600F. see how that works.
  This has been an ongoing project for me. almost 5 years of building it and I still am finding things wrong with the whole design. Just a matter of fine tuning it to make it ridable again. we will see. IF this works, she will be with me at the hillbilly run. I sure hope that my fatass will be impressive for the minds.....thats the reason I did it.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

frye, you are correct in what you are saying. I believe, with the vent clogged, the pressure was contained and heat had no real place to go, the friction from the lack of clearance was its demise. Ive had 2 people over to look at it, both machinists and we all came to the same conclusion....lack of clearance killed it.
 The original gasket was some sort of vuncalnized plastic, sort of. it was just under an 1/8th inch thick. the new gasket I used was steelplate and cork with heavy mat gasket on the outside. clearance was fine til it started to warm up. the cork cooked off and the rest is history. the aluminum space is going to take the place of the original gasket but, still have the heavy mat on the outside of it. I cant go to oil because of the bearings. they arent sealed and the oil would eventually run out of it. I am going to used a new CV grease(synthetic) that is designed for temps up to 600F. see how that works.
  This has been an ongoing project for me. almost 5 years of building it and I still am finding things wrong with the whole design. Just a matter of fine tuning it to make it ridable again. we will see. IF this works, she will be with me at the hillbilly run. I sure hope that my fatass will be impressive for the minds.....thats the reason I did it.

Wish I coulda made the hillbilly run so I could see it. I'll be at Insane though.

[Jeff K]

Grease is never going to work. We use chains like that on large mixers. They run in an oil bath.


I've had mechanics that decided to grease chains instead of properly lubing them, because they always looked well lubed, so they never bothered with them.... till they failed.
 Grease makes them "look" well lubed, but there is no grease getting into the pins and bushings of the chain. It's just greasy on the outside. I've seen it plenty of times. We'd replace a chain that was slimy with grease, and when you break it apart it will be dry as toast. 

Now all of the mixers are belt drive. Nice, quiet, and clean.
Don't suppose I could get some detailed pics if that setup? I'm thinking of making one.
I'd go belt or gear drive though.

[YoungPUP]

Check with your local lubricant  or Heavy equipment supplier. They may be able to come up with an even higher temp grease for ya. I know mobil and Valvoline both make some Heavy Duty lubricants for the Steel industry. Just my $.02 but it looks like at this point you haven't got much to lose!!!!

[Jeff K]

hmm? I was just thinking... in fourth gear that chain is spinning at, oh, lets say 7,000 - 8,000 rpms. Gonna be tough to keep grease on it. Not that grease would do any chain lubricating anyway.

[YoungPUP]

 showed the pics of the catastrophic disassembly to a machinist friend.  his advice. Lose the grease. It wont provide the lubrication, nor the cooling that a setup lkie that needs. Good luck.

[art]

I have been a machinist for 50 years an I still say oil it .If you do that you will need oil seals on the shafts.Grease will not work for the long term ,it will get slung out of the chain in high speed

[Dogg]

ok, so, I need to modify the bearing seats to accommodate a seal around the drive shaft.the rear one, the front one is up hill wont have to worry about that. ok, going to my machinist fix all guy and see what he can come up with. thanx for the input.