Worried About the National Debt?

[x]

Useful to see where it comes from.

[John Schmidt]

One item I didn't see; the illegal alien and their overall negative impact on the economy. It's said to be in the multi-billions, but since it's not PC I don't expect the CBO to include such an item as that....regardless of the impact.

The illegal alien problem really grinds me because it's not restricted to one side of the aisle. Seems like in recent years it's all talk and excuses, but no action.

Oh well.

[alph]

America was built on the backs of immigrants.  Just remember that.  They often (and i do me OFTEN) do the jobs that you more educated Americans would NEVER do.

Although, I do share your disgust with the laxing of our immigration laws.

[Tropic traveler]

It aint the tax cuts......... It's the over spending.   
It really is that simple.

[Chrisj CMA]

You know when people post little cartoon pictures like that to try to blame a complex issue on the one they hate......its pathetic.

Theres only one reason we are in so much debt.  The government is addicted to spending money that is not theirs.  You cant just keep borrowing until your in trouble and then borrow more to fix it.

Yes there were wars.  Yes there were tax cuts.  BUT if the dang burned government ACTED like they had a war on or that a tax cut that was fair to the people should have mandated a spending cut.  Then if they wouldnt try to be everyones MOMMY and subsidize this and shore up that rescue their friends and kiss the a$$es of people that dont like us too much. 


It would be different

[Sludge]

It aint the tax cuts......... It's the over spending.  
It really is that simple.

Your right on that.  

However, this chart just smells bad.  Ive been looking at CBO estimates etc and I just dont like this chart. I dont see the tax cuts doing that. Folks can dream up a chart for just about anything. If you raise taxes then your GDP will fall IMHO.  Making the debt even more of a percent of GDP, and in addition less GDP = less tax revenue.

Here is a link that I agree with.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/lying_about_bushs_tax_cuts.html

and another.  Both are good reads.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704738404575347302831199046.html

[Serk]

Source of that chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_on_Budget_and_Policy_Priorities

describes itself as a "policy organization ... working at the federal and state levels on fiscal policy and public programs that affect low- and moderate-income families and individuals."

In addition, the Center identifies and promotes effective approaches to reducing poverty. Specifically, it designs measures to make key programs for low- and moderate-income populations more accessible to eligible recipients, more effective in helping them meet their basic needs while moving toward self-sufficiency, and simpler for federal and state governments to administer. Moreover, the Center analyzes trends in poverty and income at the national and state levels, including trends in income inequality. The Center works on issues related to and including:

    * Federal budget and tax policies;
    * State budget and tax policies;
    * Medicare, Medicaid, the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), and selected issues in health reform;
    * Social Security and retirement income policies;
    * Food Stamps; WIC, and child nutrition programs;
    * Low-income tax credits such as the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC);
    * Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and related programs; and
    * Low-income housing programs.

Take from that what you will...

[Sludge]

Yea I went there earlier myself   

[BigAl]

Well if the thing rests squarely on George Bush and the Tax Cuts,,,why did the Annointed One push his party to

extend the very same Tax Cuts two more years?

Just a factual question supposing the graph is correct.(WHICH IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO ANYTHING WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE)

Large Fat Disgusted Al

[bentwrench]

There are lies,damn lies,then there are "statistics".
bw

[Tropic traveler]

It aint the tax cuts......... It's the over spending.   
It really is that simple.

I'll quote myself & ask a follow up question to the original poster....
IF the "Bush tax cuts" {which BTW are now the "Bush-Obama tax cuts"  } are such a horrible thing I again ask you and all the other resident board libs if you skipped the "Bush tax cuts" while doing your own personal taxes. I'll assume that you did find it in your heart & head to pay up in the much more desirable {to you anyways} previous higher tax rates from whatever era you can think of.
The silence on this question I pose to you libs is VERY telling! 

[x]

For those that think that they are getting killed with taxes, the Bureau of Economic research says that actual tax rates are the same as they were in 1958.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2011-05-05-tax-cut-record-low_n.htm

Again, I don't understand people who call themselves patriots, who would watch this country go down the drain, because they don't want to pay taxes.  There is a disconnect somewhere, starting with the very richest.

[Serk]

Again, I don't understand people who call themselves patriots, who would watch this country go down the drain, because they don't want to pay taxes.  There is a disconnect somewhere, starting with the very richest.

Here's the disconnect - If I believed for a MOMENT that paying higher taxes would be used to pay down the deficit/debt, I'd happily do so. But I don't. I see the government using my money against me instead of for me more and more, and thus the best way to shrink the government back to a manageable level is to "Starve the beast"... Cut off the funds, cut off the borrowing, and FORCE the government back to a reasonable size.

That's the #1 reason I want to see taxes lowered (And the debt ceiling NOT extended, which goes hand in hand with this)

But yeah, if I thought the government was serious about cutting our debt, I'd have no problem with higher taxes.

[BigAl]

The disconnect you speak of, is not real.

Taxes stymy business investment,, the Healthcare has them all running scared, energy prices are unpredictable causing even more unrest.

Tax the rich to death and you will make it even harder on the little guy , who will then pick up the tab.

It goes on and on, goes right back to Carter and Rosevelt.

These men tore down business that is the back bone of our economy.

If you took all the rich folks money, it would not make a dent in the debt.

Go back to 2008 rates of spending and you would get somewhere, even the Dems admit spending is the prob.

America as we sit right now, with huge trade deficits, lack of global competiveness, because of corporate greed(Make things in foreign countries


for pennies on the dollar and sell it here) is the real problem and reason for our decline.


Until this changes we are headed for oblivion.

WE all know it but are afraid to act.ANy of these things not true, and you may have a point, other wise you are just a tinkling little symbol who calls

 people names , but not to their face , but on the Internet.

AL

[RoadKill]

I dont mind paying taxes,I'm just SICK and freaking TIRED of watching them get squandered!  The people are supposed to have a say in how our dollars get wasted and no one seems to be listening to the voice of the people.     

[alph]

I dont mind paying taxes,I'm just SICK and freaking TIRED of watching them get squandered!  The people are supposed to have a say in how our dollars get wasted and no one seems to be listening to the voice of the people.     

I agree.  This whole national debt fiasco makes me sick.  our representatives all promise what ever it is we want to hear until they get into office, then it's business as usual.  take obama for example, he promised the liberal crowd that he'll pull us out of Afghanistan, and Iraq.  it's been two years now.....  (Personally, I believe we need a permanent base in those countries and we need to un-brainwash them!!)

The debt that we have only makes us weaker.  We’re not only dependant on foreign oil, but Chinese money!!  What’s next??

[x]

Again, I don't understand people who call themselves patriots, who would watch this country go down the drain, because they don't want to pay taxes.  There is a disconnect somewhere, starting with the very richest.

Here's the disconnect - If I believed for a MOMENT that paying higher taxes would be used to pay down the deficit/debt, I'd happily do so. But I don't. I see the government using my money against me instead of for me more and more, and thus the best way to shrink the government back to a manageable level is to "Starve the beast"... Cut off the funds, cut off the borrowing, and FORCE the government back to a reasonable size.

That's the #1 reason I want to see taxes lowered (And the debt ceiling NOT extended, which goes hand in hand with this)

But yeah, if I thought the government was serious about cutting our debt, I'd have no problem with higher taxes.

I see this "philosophy" espoused quite often.  Where and what would you cut? 

Here is a great graphic for the 2011 federal budget... uses squares of varying sizes to show each contribution to budget expenditures.  Where do you go after it?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html

[Chrisj CMA]

The reason the "BushnowObama" tax cuts are so contraversial is they mostly affect the people that actually PAY taxes.  Many very rich and big corporations have found the loop-holes and tricks to either get their tax burden to almost nothing.  Even worse, some have found how to get government subsities that they dont deserve, but know how to qualify for. 

This is where the changes have to start.......the tax code is too complicated, to big and it got that way because of pandering.  Some lobbyist or some Lawmaker trying to get re elected decided to "give a break" to a group

BS!  Make it fair, everyone pays...you make just a little then you pay just a little.  As soon as there is a cut off for paying nothing well surprise surprise, way more are going to be under that cut-off.  Make it fair, get rid of subsities, loopholes and writeoffs.  Increase taxes on any business that operates outside the US....and lower taxes on US based ones to increase our job base and therefore tax revenue. You make the money you pay your share, no refunds.  Or go to some sort for National sales tax that replaces income tax so all of our Mexican guests can help too.....now I know what some will say.....THEY PAY TAXES.  Yes some of them that have found real jobs and have a SSN do but many more get cash under the table still.

Then stop borrowing money to give out like billions to Brazil so they can drill for the oil we should be drilling for.  The list is long for the the things our government just hands out money for......the more you hand it out the more the hands are out for more.

Eliminate redundant programs and programs that just dont do anything or ones that do a lot, but shouldnt (on taxpayer dime anyway)

Bottomline.....If we get America back to work......have everyone pay a fair tax and minimize the ones sucking the system dry and spend wisely what we do have to spend I think we can recover in time. 

The problem is our government is not interested in being responsible, it seems they just want what they want because so far they can so they will.....

[Disco]

That's a stupid chart.

The problem is NOT insufficient revenue to the government.  The problem IS overspending.  Period.

[Bob E.]

That's a stupid chart.

The problem is NOT insufficient revenue to the government.  The problem IS overspending.  Period.

So...what spending do you propose eliminating?

[solo1]

I have no problem with paying taxes having been in this good ole USA for 83 years.  I DO have a problem with government spending my taxes with complete disregard for the viability of the United States.  Most of this brought on by career politicians wanting to get reelected.

Herman Cain got it right when he answered a question pertaining to never holding elective office.

Not an exact quote but he said something like ' Most people in Washington have held public office before, How's that workin' out for ya!'   

[x]

That's a stupid chart.

The problem is NOT insufficient revenue to the government.  The problem IS overspending.  Period.

This is an interesting judgment.  What kind of data do you have to back up your judgment?  Where are we overspending?  Military?  Social security?  I'd like to know where we are overspending.

Cheers.

[3fan4life]

Eagle, you've been beating this same horse since at least 2009:

At the risk of offending anyone, has anyone considered that this is the patriotic thing to do?  Doesn't matter who or how the debt got where it is... the fact is that the debt is where it is... and it will drag this country down for a long time.
But, we got some so called 'patriots' that only want to talk about reducing taxes, not what is right for this grand country.  Seems like they are more worried about their own pocketbook than keeping America strong and healthy.  But even at $500 billion per year, that means 25 percent of the US budget is deficit spending.  25 percent tax increase anyone?
Hmmm... maybe we can cut.  Social security and medicare consume 50 percent of the budget.  Almost 40 percent for defense, leaving only about 10 percent for everything else.  Where to cut?  Tough choices.

So in your OWN WORDS:

Whine, whine, whine... doesn't it ever get tiresome?

AND

 

Why do you post this tripe?  What is your point?  Are you looking for a response?  I think you are a Bezerker, long on rants, short on knowledge and insight. 
 
Would you drop this crap, please?

[BigAl]

Illegal Immigrants of all kinds are presently the ones that are killing the state budgets literally.

National Budget is overspending by doing the same thing it always does.

Replication of services and agencies.

A good example is the FDA>

One outfit will regualate the quality of Oranges, to market.

THe other will regulate once it has gotten to market.

Then yet another will check the quality of concentrated orange juice.

Multiply this by every product known to us and you get the picture,, just like if you really knew how much you were actually paying in


taxes, upfront and hidden, yes hidden, you would be mad as hell.


Fuel Taxes, food taxes, sales taxes, local taxes, state taxes, city taxes, county taxes, amusement taxes, federal excise tax, medicare taxes, Income Taxes,


Fica Taxes, Social Securtiy taxes, passport fees, yes the fees are taxes too.


It goes on and on forever.


Just to see what you make and what you have left to live on.

It is pathetic as you already know.

AL

[BF]

Why wasn't SE called home on Saturday with the rest of the righteous?   

[Serk]

IMHO, the correct question isn't what should we CUT, the correct question we should be asking is what should we KEEP.

Cut it all, then re-fund anything that the constitution authorizes the federal government to be doing, nothing more. Once we've got our financial house in order, then we can, one by one, reexamine the extras to see what we can afford and what we, as a nation, just need to do without.

[BigAl]

Serk maybe referring to a Constitutional Convention.

Politicians do not want anything to do with it.

This would upset their little applecart known to us as our money.

Not the Governments money, they make no money, they take ours and call it theirs.

Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it.

Well that's because they want to spend your money any way they want to take care of us.

Or in other words take care of the ones that won't work in the first place.

ANd while we are talking about our money.

Social Security and Medicare is not an entitlement.

It is our money we paid in, some government officials think we are greedy if we can afford to live in our Golden Years without it, then  we should.

Well there again it is our money we paid in.

We particicpated and should only expect to get a return on our money.

Now the ones that did not pay in(Illegal Immigrants for one group),,let them work or starve.

Pretty simple.

AL

[BigAl]

By the way, we are borrowing , 42 cents of every dollar  the governmet  spends right now and is borrowed from Red China.

Now that is relly stupid.

Something has to give or we are going to be broke,,,soon.

[Jess from VA]

IMHO, the correct question isn't what should we CUT, the correct question we should be asking is what should we KEEP.

Cut it all, then re-fund anything that the constitution authorizes the federal government to be doing, nothing more. Once we've got our financial house in order, then we can, one by one, reexamine the extras to see what we can afford and what we, as a nation, just need to do without.

I agree entirely.

[Chattanooga Mark]

The chart in the original post has no basis in fact or reality. It's sad to see someone with so much hate in them.

Mark

[Psychotic Bovine]

Ok, I will tell you where I think they should cut spending, as a start.
Pay cut on all senators and congressmen to bring them to the AVERAGE income of the area they represent.  Capped at $75,000 a year.  Most of us live on less than that.  Many of these elected officials have other sets of income, they can live on that if $75,000 is not enough. The privilege of being elected should be compensation enough.  If the average wage in their area goes down, so does their income.  That's an incentive to do a good job for the people they represent.  No free health care for them.  None.  We pay for it, they should, too.
No retirement package.  Most jobs don't give you one after 8 years of employment, so they shouldn't either.  Maybe a watch and a party with a cake.   Pay raises?  We vote on them, they don't, but no more than 2% above cost of living increase (a lot of people don't even get that much of a raise).    
Mandatory minimum sentencing on all crimes that they are convicted of. No censure, no voting for impeachment.  Do the crime, do the time.  And forfeiture of ALL income earned during that time if convicted.
No use of military aircraft for business, let them take the expenses out of their taxes like everyone else.  No use of government owned vehicles.  They can rent a car if they need it.  
If they want to fly, they can fly first class. But they pay for it themselves.  I don't get paid to drive to work, they shouldn't either.  It's called living expenses, we all pay them.
All money paid for appearances, speeches, books, etc taxed at 75%.  Heck, make it 85%.  If you make money on the company dime, it's called a conflict of interest.  They work for us, not the other way around.  We elect them to represent us, not to be rock stars.

That's a start....

[fudgie]

Right on bovine. 

I'd cut medicaid. Unless you need it. Give it to the workers out of a job and need health care for them and families. NOT give it to the ones that just dont want to work or to the 'baby factory' moms. Cant tell you how many abuse the system here. They dont have a car but have a 'card' so they call. Medicaid only gives us $70 (or close to it) out of a $800 ambulance cost. We eat the rest. 

[BigAl]

There again Fudgie, we you I are paying for Medicare, yes and Medicaid is different.

I agree on Medicaid.

But Medicare I paid in and I want it back out.

If they don't pay all of us the Dollars, on Social Security, Medicare, then that's taxation without representation or in this case compensation.

Boston Tea Party Stuff got started like this.

I know what you mean, just don't let the conservatives go too far.

I think I am slowly becoming a Libertarian, or is that Presbyterian, I use to be one of those too.

A feller has to live in the Golden Years.

[Jess from VA]

America's Stupidest Family	powered by Aeva

[Tropic traveler]

Again, I ask.
SE, did you include a little extra in your 2010 tax return to help out with the problem??
Seems a good patriot like yourself would be quick to tell us all about it. I mean it's obvious from what you post that you feel ashamed of the low tax rates that we currently enjoy.  
I would also like to know what you would cut from the budget & why. Or are you OK with things going the way they are now & the inevitable consequences that doing nothing will bring?
Don't just throw bombs & run away, share some of your wisdom with us!  

[x]

America's Stupidest Family

A real plan, rather than a rant, might get us somewhere.

[Psychotic Bovine]

America's Stupidest Family

A real plan, rather than a rant, might get us somewhere.

What rant?  His plan is to vote them out.  I didn't detect one bit of a rant there.  Merely stating facts. 

[3fan4life]

America's Stupidest Family

A real plan, rather than a rant, might get us somewhere.

AGAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS I ASK YOU:

Why do you post this tripe?  What is your point?  Are you looking for a response?  I think you are a Bezerker, long on rants, short on knowledge and insight. 
 
Would you drop this crap, please?

or maybe this (again your words) explains the problem:

Possibly you could grow a brain and review the issue in more than juvenile terms... then again, it takes a long time to grow a mature brain... you may have a lot of catching up to do.

[x]

America's Stupidest Family

A real plan, rather than a rant, might get us somewhere.

What rant?  His plan is to vote them out.  I didn't detect one bit of a rant there.  Merely stating facts. 

Voting them out is not a plan to fix.

[x]

America's Stupidest Family

A real plan, rather than a rant, might get us somewhere.

AGAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS I ASK YOU:

Why do you post this tripe?  What is your point?  Are you looking for a response?  I think you are a Bezerker, long on rants, short on knowledge and insight. 
 
Would you drop this crap, please?

or maybe this (again your words) explains the problem:

Possibly you could grow a brain and review the issue in more than juvenile terms... then again, it takes a long time to grow a mature brain... you may have a lot of catching up to do.

OK, the place to begin with major cuts is defense spending.  Coupled with veterans benefits, defense spending tops 860 billion, more actually, when you factor in the interest paid on debt acquired to support the defense budget.
 
Eisenhower was right... beware the military-industrial complex.  The US defense budget is almost as large as all other defense budgets in the world combined.  We don't need to be guarding other first world countries like Germany, France, Japan, and Korea while they pay next to nothing for defense.  We don't need 11 carrier strike groups in a day and age where terrorism is the issue.
 
It will take decades to reduce the budget.  First, the companies that build military hardware for the government must start building non military applications for the government.  This will enable Congress to keep up the pork for their districts.  Once building non military applications, the companies can be weaned off the government tit.
 
As the total number of defense personnel drops, so will veterans benefits.  I figure you could easily pull 300 billion out of defense without harming the security of this nation.