Welding advice on the engine casing.

[John Schmidt]

A few months back I thumped a relatively immovable object with the left end of the timing belt cover. It sprung the cover but can be sealed. The plate behind the left cam pulley had to be replaced as well, and now I'm hearing some noise that sounds a bit like bearing noise on the end of the cam. That's just great...but I can do the repair. Originally what I found when removing the belt cover after the "thumping" was a piece of the engine casing was broken. Looking at it from the front, it's about 2.5" long and the second cover bolt from the end screws into it. It's just a lip in the area and about a half inch deep, no pressure involved other than retaining some integrity to keep out the elements and dirt. I tried some JB Weld and it held for about two months. But today when I pulled the belt cover off to investigate the noise, that piece fell off again. So, I'm wondering if anyone has ever welded a piece back in place on the engine? If so, what would you suggest I take for precautions so I don't damage anything electrical? Or, is there something else I can try in place of the JB Weld that will hold that piece in place?

Re. the noise, at first recently it sounded a bit like I might have tightened the left tension pulley a tad snug. That will often set up a nice howl when things get warmed up. This seemed to come in around 1500 rpm so I apparently have another problem now that I've adjusted the tension. Now I don't get that howl from a too-tight tension pulley, but I still have what almost sounds like a belt squishing/squeaking sound, somewhat like a belt running on a pulley that's slightly out of alignment. But, when I put a straightedge from that pulley across to the crank it looks right on. There is no wobble or runout observing the pulley while the bike it running. But, I can put my engine stethescope on the plate in back of the left cam pulley and it's pretty loud, much more so than the right side when listening in the same position. You can't hear it without the stethescope, but with it the sound is a bit disturbing.

So, I have two things to address; either welding or "glueing" that piece back on the bottom of the engine case so it stays put. And, determining the source of what appears to be bearing noise coming from the front end of the left cam, behind the pulley.

[Goody]

I would not try to weld this on the bike.  I have welded up holes and cracks in casings but it has always been torn down and I could see both sides of the damage.  It.s also going to take high frequency ac welding to weld that.  I would be afraid of what it may do if things aren't grounded just right.  We fixed an old honda dirt bike with JB and it didn't hold the first time.  The second time we used the long set time JB and really cleaned the crap out of the surfaces that need to be glued.  Small stainless brushed all the surfaces then cleaned again with a good metal prep.  Same stuff you would wipe down metal before priming.  Then glued it up and had to keep working it as the long set has a tendancy to run before it sets up. Tip- keep the end of finger wet to smooth the JB  epoxies wont stick to a wet surface.  Its held up for 4 years.  Devcon makes a lot of different metal repair products that we use in industrial applications.
As for noises in a valk good luck!  I have a noise in my 98 that I have looked for all last summer and into this year.  I'm  hoping its not the clutch rivets but thats where im going next. 
Goody

[Scott from FL, now in Maine]

John, this is Scott, sorry you can't make the ride tomorrow. When you inpacted, is the any chance the pulley got hit? Even a tap? I am wonder if puley could be bent and even the end of the cam shaft. Good Luck!  

[draino]

Kingbee, I suggest you look under the cam support at the bearing surface.  The noise you describe is what I heard before my cam seal began to leak, which led me to discover the gauling of the cam to the head.  I hope this is not what you hear, but seems likely to me.

[draino]

oops, put wrong name at beginning of last message,

[John Schmidt]

John, this is Scott, sorry you can't make the ride tomorrow. When you inpacted, is the any chance the pulley got hit? Even a tap? I am wonder if puley could be bent and even the end of the cam shaft. Good Luck!  

Scott, I can observe the pulley while the engine is running and it tracks true, no runout. As for the cam, for the hit to be hard enough to bend that it would have to have been much harder. The inside of the belt cover had no marks on it from the pulley so I know it didn't contact it. Guess it's time to pull out the shop manual and see where to turn next. As for the broken piece, school's still out on that.

[Robert]

First I also would not weld the case and second I've never really had much luck with JB Weld either but Marine Tex has far surpassed what I thought was possible with epoxy. It has glued a coolant passage shut that would have leaked to the engine compartment a hole about 1 inch in diameter. I also used to make the skeg on outboard motors with it when someone broke one off and it wasn't possible to do anything else and repaired fuel tanks all have held up. The only problem I see is cleaning the surface of the JB weld. As for the noise could it have bent the head where the cam bearing is. I haven't pulled a Valk head so I don't know if it has cam bearings or the cam rides on the machined surface of the head. If you did pull the head a machine shop should be able to take care of both of the problems. They can line bore the cam bearings and weld the head. If you decide to go the Marine Tex way let me suggest that if possible that you drill a couple of holes in both mating surfaces and insert small rods in them to act as dowels for alignment and just a little more surface to hold on.  http://www.marinetex.com/

[draino]

the valk cam rides in machined journal of head and cam support.  No bearing insert is used, I just had to put on a used head because of this.  Really not expensive to repair that way, not hard either.  I got a head from pinwall cycle parts an ebay store for $250, with cam and all.

[John Schmidt]

Re. the welding question, there isn't much surface area to work with, maybe a max of 3/16" in a couple spots. If I can get it to stay in place, I'm in good shape since it's not under pressure, just needs to keep out the elements and dirt coming from underneath. I'm more concerned about the noise thing, I need relieability for travel and this makes me a little hesitant to take off for Colorado in July.

[John Schmidt]

A friend(the bike I thumped actually) and his son rode down today and after we let the bike get good and warm...you guessed it, couldn't hear a thing that could be considered abnormal. He and my wife kidded me, too nitpicking, fussy about noises, on and on. Of course they're right, guess I needed to get a second and third opinion on the noise first hand. He took the stethoscope over to his bike and it didn't sound any different. Final analysis...I'm changing out the belts in case one took a hit, get the broken piece taken care of somehow, then put it back together and ride it.
Final answer!!!   

I remember an old 1953 '98 Olds I once bought from a fellow GI when still in the service. It was a mess, made noises no engine should ever make, had about 70k on the odo. I changed the oil, greased it, replaced brakes, and drove it for nearly ten years. You just never know.

[T.P.]

Sounds like this will bother you to no end if this is not done right. forget more jb, glue, epoxy, velcro, etc. the correct way to get this fixed would be to take it to a shop who specializes in heli-arc (tig welding) for an experts opinion. it may be an easy job for someone who can look at the whole pic. and do it still on the bike.  with all of the over the road trips that you do, you want peace of mind. T.P.

[Scott from FL, now in Maine]

John, I have to agree with TP, first find out what the noise truly is and fixed, then go to a professional and have them weld it. In the long run you'll have a lot more peace of mind   

[T.P.]

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