I do not understand all this dread about hydrolock

[Big Mike]

I have hydrolocked twice on my personal Valk. Once in 07 at INZANE, and once on a road trip in 09. Both times I did the same thing. I put the bike in gear, rolled it backwards one complete revolution, then started the bike. Rolling the bike backwards will release the exhaust valve so that any fuel in that cylinder will simply run out. Maybe some folks do not recognize the problem right away, I do not know. Maybe I am missing something here.

[ricoman]

I would think rolling it forward would do the same.
When you rolled it "one complete revolution", was that a wheel revolution or an engine revolution? If it was the engine how could you tell?

[Big Mike]

I roll it backwards because if the starter is not going to push the compression cylinder up than neither am I. One revolution of the motor. When you roll the bike in gear, you can hear the compression cylinder opening. I roll it till I hear all 6 cylinders release the compression. You should be able to smell the fuel once it dumps in the exhaust.

[Jason O]

How did you recognize the problem before you hit that start button?

Thanks for the tip!

[The Anvil]

How did you recognize the problem before you hit that start button?

Thanks for the tip!

And that's the question right there. The dread is because the result for a lot of people seems to be shearing of many parts.

[Ferris Leets]

I may be way off here but I have been accused (but never convicted)of that before.
      The damage from ther hydrolock seems to be very inconsistent.  From noe to major case damage.  My take on this is that if the full cylnder is on its way up and is near the top it will just stop the starter.  If one of the other cylinders fires and drives the partially full cylinder up that would be more likely to cause damage.  If the partially full cylinder is on its intake stroke I believe that would be the worst case scenario because the engine would have enough time to build some velocity before hiting the solid liquid on the compression stroke.
     Maybe you got lucky.

[Bobbo]

I may be way off here but I have been accused (but never convicted)of that before.
      The damage from ther hydrolock seems to be very inconsistent.  From noe to major case damage.  My take on this is that if the full cylnder is on its way up and is near the top it will just stop the starter.  If one of the other cylinders fires and drives the partially full cylinder up that would be more likely to cause damage.  If the partially full cylinder is on its intake stroke I believe that would be the worst case scenario because the engine would have enough time to build some velocity before hiting the solid liquid on the compression stroke.
     Maybe you got lucky.

I agree.

[Patrick]

How did you recognize the problem before you hit that start button?

Thanks for the tip!

Well, thats the rub, because there is nothing to 'recognize'.. I think some folks don't recognize the problem after they push the little button the first time and may push it again.. If the dreaded 'clank' is ever heard when the button is pushed, its my opinion that ALL the sparklers should be removed and the cylinder cleared.. I also believe that just 'tapping' the button helps, it may take an extra 'tap' to get the monster  running if it doesn't start on the first one,but, to me, its good insurance..

[Ferris Leets]

I think from now on I will remove all of the sparkplugs before I start the bike.  Anyone make quick release spark plugs?

[Rocketman]

I may be way off here but I have been accused (but never convicted)of that before.
      The damage from ther hydrolock seems to be very inconsistent.  From noe to major case damage.  My take on this is that if the full cylnder is on its way up and is near the top it will just stop the starter.  If one of the other cylinders fires and drives the partially full cylinder up that would be more likely to cause damage.  If the partially full cylinder is on its intake stroke I believe that would be the worst case scenario because the engine would have enough time to build some velocity before hiting the solid liquid on the compression stroke.
     Maybe you got lucky.

Absolutely right.  If you've had a hydrolock, and hit the button, but didn't do any damage, that was PURE LUCK.  It might not work that way next time.  The fear is that I'm not as lucky as the original poster.  Actually, I know I'm not.  I've had three damaging hydrolocks.  After those expensive lessons, I know how to avoid them, but it still gives me shivers thinking about it.

[BIG--T]

I may be way off here but I have been accused (but never convicted)of that before.
      The damage from ther hydrolock seems to be very inconsistent.  From noe to major case damage.  My take on this is that if the full cylnder is on its way up and is near the top it will just stop the starter.  If one of the other cylinders fires and drives the partially full cylinder up that would be more likely to cause damage.  If the partially full cylinder is on its intake stroke I believe that would be the worst case scenario because the engine would have enough time to build some velocity before hiting the solid liquid on the compression stroke.
     Maybe you got lucky.

Absolutely right.  If you've had a hydrolock, and hit the button, but didn't do any damage, that was PURE LUCK.  It might not work that way next time.  The fear is that I'm not as lucky as the original poster.  Actually, I know I'm not.  I've had three damaging hydrolocks.  After those expensive lessons, I know how to avoid them, but it still gives me shivers thinking about it.

Just curious, you said you know how to avoid them and I'd like to know just in case. I've just learned about the clank sound and to roll it backwards. Any advice will be welcome!

[The Anvil]

I think from now on I will remove all of the sparkplugs before I start the bike.  Anyone make quick release spark plugs?

Actually, after a period of storage that would not be a bad idea. Pretty simple too considering how easy they are to get to on the Valk.

Holy crap Rocketman, THREE hydrolocks?

[Rocketman]

Holy crap Rocketman, THREE hydrolocks?

Yes, all within a few months.  I know a lot more now than I did then.  I know several people who have had non-damaging hydrolocks, but I'm not that lucky.

Absolutely right.  If you've had a hydrolock, and hit the button, but didn't do any damage, that was PURE LUCK.  It might not work that way next time.  The fear is that I'm not as lucky as the original poster.  Actually, I know I'm not.  I've had three damaging hydrolocks.  After those expensive lessons, I know how to avoid them, but it still gives me shivers thinking about it.

Just curious, you said you know how to avoid them and I'd like to know just in case. I've just learned about the clank sound and to roll it backwards. Any advice will be welcome!

Those who know me realize I'm getting out my soapbox right now.
This isn't 100% foolproof, but it lowers my risk to an acceptable level.
Short version: 
1)  Replace the stock petcock with a manual Pingel. 
2)  Turn off the fuel EVERY TIME you stop the engine.  Get into the habit of turning it off when you stop, and verifying it's off before you start. 
3)  If you've forgotten to turn it off, and you find this before you start the engine, put 'er in 5th and roll it.  Doesn't really matter which way.  Roll it till you feel 6 compression strokes.  If you get a lot of resistance, it's locked.  Some resistance is normal.  Try it today, so you get the feel for what's "right", and then you'll know what's "wrong". 
4)  If it's "wrong", and it's locked, pull all the sparkplugs and repeat the rolling procedure.  Some folks say to hit the starter button, but I don't like the idea of energizing sparkplugs while I'm spraying fuel all over the place.  Rolling 'er manually works just fine. 
5)  Put the plugs back in. 

She's ready to fire up, but now you know you've got a problem.  Fix it ASAP, and become hyper-religious about the procedure listed above until you do fix it.

[The Anvil]

Holy crap Rocketman, THREE hydrolocks?

Yes, all within a few months.  I know a lot more now than I did then.  I know several people who have had non-damaging hydrolocks, but I'm not that lucky.

Absolutely right.  If you've had a hydrolock, and hit the button, but didn't do any damage, that was PURE LUCK.  It might not work that way next time.  The fear is that I'm not as lucky as the original poster.  Actually, I know I'm not.  I've had three damaging hydrolocks.  After those expensive lessons, I know how to avoid them, but it still gives me shivers thinking about it.

Just curious, you said you know how to avoid them and I'd like to know just in case. I've just learned about the clank sound and to roll it backwards. Any advice will be welcome!

Those who know me realize I'm getting out my soapbox right now.
This isn't 100% foolproof, but it lowers my risk to an acceptable level.
Short version: 
1)  Replace the stock petcock with a manual Pingel. 
2)  Turn off the fuel EVERY TIME you stop the engine.  Get into the habit of turning it off when you stop, and verifying it's off before you start. 
3)  If you've forgotten to turn it off, and you find this before you start the engine, put 'er in 5th and roll it.  Doesn't really matter which way.  Roll it till you feel 6 compression strokes.  If you get a lot of resistance, it's locked.  Some resistance is normal.  Try it today, so you get the feel for what's "right", and then you'll know what's "wrong". 
4)  If it's "wrong", and it's locked, pull all the sparkplugs and repeat the rolling procedure.  Some folks say to hit the starter button, but I don't like the idea of energizing sparkplugs while I'm spraying fuel all over the place.  Rolling 'er manually works just fine. 
5)  Put the plugs back in. 

She's ready to fire up, but now you know you've got a problem.  Fix it ASAP, and become hyper-religious about the procedure listed above until you do fix it.

Good information.

Is there a way to tell if the stock petcock has been replaced with a Pingel?

[BIG--T]

Holy crap Rocketman, THREE hydrolocks?

Yes, all within a few months.  I know a lot more now than I did then.  I know several people who have had non-damaging hydrolocks, but I'm not that lucky.

Absolutely right.  If you've had a hydrolock, and hit the button, but didn't do any damage, that was PURE LUCK.  It might not work that way next time.  The fear is that I'm not as lucky as the original poster.  Actually, I know I'm not.  I've had three damaging hydrolocks.  After those expensive lessons, I know how to avoid them, but it still gives me shivers thinking about it.

Just curious, you said you know how to avoid them and I'd like to know just in case. I've just learned about the clank sound and to roll it backwards. Any advice will be welcome!

Those who know me realize I'm getting out my soapbox right now.
This isn't 100% foolproof, but it lowers my risk to an acceptable level.
Short version: 
1)  Replace the stock petcock with a manual Pingel. 
2)  Turn off the fuel EVERY TIME you stop the engine.  Get into the habit of turning it off when you stop, and verifying it's off before you start. 
3)  If you've forgotten to turn it off, and you find this before you start the engine, put 'er in 5th and roll it.  Doesn't really matter which way.  Roll it till you feel 6 compression strokes.  If you get a lot of resistance, it's locked.  Some resistance is normal.  Try it today, so you get the feel for what's "right", and then you'll know what's "wrong". 
4)  If it's "wrong", and it's locked, pull all the sparkplugs and repeat the rolling procedure.  Some folks say to hit the starter button, but I don't like the idea of energizing sparkplugs while I'm spraying fuel all over the place.  Rolling 'er manually works just fine. 
5)  Put the plugs back in. 

She's ready to fire up, but now you know you've got a problem.  Fix it ASAP, and become hyper-religious about the procedure listed above until you do fix it.

Thanks Rocketman, Now I'll know!

[valkyriemc]

Well here's a pingel bottom view.

http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,28208.msg256944/topicseen.html#msg256944

[Rocketman]

Is there a way to tell if the stock petcock has been replaced with a Pingel?

The stock is quite different from the Pingel.  The stock utilizes the knob on the left side of the bike.  To actuate the Pingel, you have to reach all the way under the tank.  (That sounds harder than it actually is.  After a very short time, I was so used to it I could easily actuate the valve while riding.)  As a result, while the stock petcock knob is very visible, the Pingel is fairly hidden.  If you see them side by side, it's very obvious.

[ValkFlyer]

Is there a way to tell if the stock petcock has been replaced with a Pingel?

The stock is quite different from the Pingel.  The stock utilizes the knob on the left side of the bike.  To actuate the Pingel, you have to reach all the way under the tank.  (That sounds harder than it actually is.  After a very short time, I was so used to it I could easily actuate the valve while riding.)  As a result, while the stock petcock knob is very visible, the Pingel is fairly hidden.  If you see them side by side, it's very obvious.

Is the pingel a must? Can't you just turn the stock petcock of and on like the pingel?

[PhredValk]

You can turn the OEM off, but I've read that it doesn't neccessarily stop hydrolock. There is no click or anything to tell you if it's fully 'off' or not. Also, there's a vacuum tube from the no 6 carb that will fill the cylinder if the petcock fails in a certain way, off or not.

Most bikes will run for life with the OEM petcock with no problems at all. Hydrolock is a rare occurrance, from what I've read, that gets blown out of proportion because, like a heart attack, when it DOES hit it's a very bad thing.
Fred.

[Patrick]

Fuel-lock is one of the few problems these monsters have, and, it is kinda rare.. But, as stated, when it happens to you, you don't ever forget it..
There is really no guarantee against it ever happening.. I'm just a big fan of the Pingle valve and an in-line filter, but, still tap the starter button just in case.. I've always shut off the fuel on any bike or vehicle that I was able to do so on..
The original valve can leak when shut off..

[Ricky-D]

The best part of the differences between the Pingle and the stock petcock (not including the vacuum shutoff) is the action of the manual shut-off with the Pingle.

With the stocker, the "off" position is between "on" and "reserve" so there is no real positive way to know you have shut it off and stopped the gas flow. The ball detent is only slightly felt and a misalignment of the knob and the petcock will usually cause the petcock to fail to stop the gas from flowing, especially if the screw inside the knob is tightened down hard.

With the Pingle petcock the "off" is at the full extent of the movement of the selector arm and gives a feedback of not being able to move any further.   "On" is at the other end of the movement and so you get similar feedback.  "Reserve" is half way between the two where I feel this is best since "reserve" is a seldom needed setting.

***

[Mofla]

wow lil skeered ! after a 30m miles ride in the heat and parking my newly aquirred 98 tourer i noticed
gas dripping from the engine. looks like it was coming from open plastic tubes under the gas tank. I did turn the oem petck off and it stopped. Wanting to know why this was happening I attemted to remove the tank but had to cease after finding I couldnt because of petck binding against frame. (Is that normal ? ) any how after putting it back together i hit the start button only to feel it locked.
after a few attemts it turned over and started as easily as always. So I come to my new best friend
VRCC and the first subject I find is hyrolock ! Is this what I experienced ? Im guilty of not turning off petcock, but no more. If this was the case I must be a lucky man that no damage occurred. It  took my piggy bank to buy the bike, dont want any $$$ repairs !!!! Thnks to everyone that has helped so far on this forum. This place rocks ! tomboy

[Ricky-D]

Check your oil!

The gas may have inadvertently been pumped into the crankcase by way of the rings.

***

[Rocketman]

Concur on most everything.  Especially the rarity of the occurrence, and the heart attack analogy.  They don't happen frequently, but when they do, it sucks big time, if you're unlucky enough to damage things.

bigmofla123- You should do several things.  First, thank God, your lucky stars, your rabbit foot, and everything else that it just clunked, rather than breaking things.
Second, fix the problem so it doesn't happen again.  There are several steps, with several options.  You could rebuild the stock petcock, but some people (myself included) think that's just asking for it to happen again soon.  The other option is to replace it with a Pingel.  I use the manual valve, although they have a vac operated version.  It's ~100 bucks, but it's worth it for my peace of mind.  Either way, then you need to get the float valve in the offending carb to stop leaking.  This is a much more involved procedure, and I'm not going to type it up unless you want to hear it.
Third, as Ricky-D said, change your oil.
Fourth, follow the preventive procedure I typed above, and have fun riding, not having to worry about this again.

Mark

[PhredValk]

When I get around to desmogging the big girl and installing the cruise control (and an air filter and all the other tank off duties) I'll install an electric fuel shutoff and change the petcock to a manual version to get rid of the vacuum hose. No flow, no hydrolock.

I have the engine hanger covers and anything other than the OEM petcock would be difficult to use (and won't look as cool).
Fred.

[wizard -vrccds#125]

I hate to scare everyone but even with a pingle it can LOCK. With a stuck float and an open intake valve you CAN get enough fuel into the piston before you can shut the valve off ! Now you can all be skeered !!!!!!

[SimTek]

I have had the Pingel for years. Always shut it off. I had a hydrolock. There is enough fuel in the lines and bowl to Hydrolock. I got the "clunk" on start. Stopped and pulled the plugs and blew out the fuel from number 4. Replaced plugs and started her up. Ran it a while and turned off Pingel and shut her down. Came back 3 hours later and pulled the plugs again and fuel shot out of number 4. Had to pull the carbs and clean them.  Still worry every time I hit the starter button. I also added an inline fuel filter since the Hydrolock..

[Tropic traveler]

I hate to scare everyone but even with a pingle it can LOCK. With a stuck float and an open intake valve you CAN get enough fuel into the piston before you can shut the valve off ! Now you can all be skeered !!!!!!

Agreed!
Had it happen at 78K in 2008 with no damage to my '97. Rust in the tank, rust & crud in the carb bowls and 1 carb leaked past. The gas drained into the crankcase & I was able to start it later that day without incident. Pulled then cleaned the carbs, had the gas tank cleaned & coated, bought new stock petcock & added an inline filter. 30k since then with no problems.
The Pingel is not a guarantee that hydrolock will not happen but it does cut the odds. I have the nice chrome hanger covers from Carolina Bike & Trike & I want to keep them. My vanity kept me from going the Pingel route. I trust in the stocker, maybe I'm just a little off?    

[BIG--T]

WOW All this hydrolock stuff now I am skeeeerd, so skeerd I'm gonna sell mine before I love it anymore than I do now!!

[Ricky-D]

I hate to scare everyone but even with a pingle it can LOCK. With a stuck float and an open intake valve you CAN get enough fuel into the piston before you can shut the valve off ! Now you can all be skeered !!!!!!

Yep, happened to me a couple of years back.

A stuck float while riding locally. The bike started running very badly, seemed like the motor was missing, was afraid to let it idle because I thought it would stall and would not restart. There was a big loss of power.

Got it home to inspect for the problem. I remember the intake was full of gasoline. Luckily the cylinder was in compression stroke. Dropped the fuel bowl but saw nothing obvious. fiddled with the float/needle assembly and put it all back together.  Never a problem again.

I got lucky I guess.

***

[Mildew]

It must take some time to shut the pingle off. I would think it's better to shut off the pingle  before shutting the bike off to prevent hyrolock because of a stuck float valve

[BIG--T]

I hate to scare everyone but even with a pingle it can LOCK. With a stuck float and an open intake valve you CAN get enough fuel into the piston before you can shut the valve off ! Now you can all be skeered !!!!!!

Yep, happened to me a couple of years back.

A stuck float while riding locally. The bike started running very badly, seemed like the motor was missing, was afraid to let it idle because I thought it would stall and would not restart. There was a big loss of power.

Got it home to inspect for the problem. I remember the intake was full of gasoline. Luckily the cylinder was in compression stroke. Dropped the fuel bowl but saw nothing obvious. fiddled with the float/needle assembly and put it all back together.  Never a problem again.

I got lucky I guess.

***

Ricky prior to that problem, how often did you use a fuel cleaner, techron, stabil, etc?

[strawbobrob]

I've read through the responses here with great interest as I love my beast  and don't want see it self-destruct with the push of a starter button.  I feel the petcock (and the helmet lock btw!!) could have been designed better by the Honda gods but I do keep it stock.  Perhaps I worry more than I should about reaching way under the bike to switch the Pingel as I'm mostly 75mph on the tarmac every day and always run to reserve before filling up.

An inline filter is a great idea which I will install based on this thread; also, Big Mac of the So Cal chapter recently installed an electronic fuel shutoff which is another option that he believes in.  Not sure where it goes in the line; maybe there's really no 100% bullet proof solution.

If you want to read a funny motorcycle story about a hydrolock experience on a Valkyrie and ridiculous good luck, click below.  I can't defend the idiot--How dumb he (er, ah . . .I) was will make your skin crawl reading it, but it will make you laugh (I wasn't laughing at the time).  An extreme example of just how strong the Valks are.  Godly strong bikes built by the gods, for the gods.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590035 

[Ricky-D]

"Ricky prior to that problem, how often did you use a fuel cleaner, techron, stabil, etc?"

Not too much but I did use it.

Since switching exclusively to ethanol free I don't use it at all.

***

[Rocketman]

I hate to scare everyone but even with a pingle it can LOCK. With a stuck float and an open intake valve you CAN get enough fuel into the piston before you can shut the valve off ! Now you can all be skeered !!!!!!

I don't understand what you mean by "before you can shut the valve off".  I usually shut mine off before I shut down the engine, sometimes even before I pull up to my destination.
How fast it can lock will depend on how bad your leak is.  It might fill in minutes with a serious leak, although I've never seen one that bad.  It might take all night at a slow drip.

Of course, you're right, in that there is not 100% guarantee.  You're just reducing the odds to a manageable amount.  I think that a Pingel plus my shutdown/startup procedure is manageable.  Others rely on an electric shut off valve.  Theoretically, all that stuff can still get stuck open, and then you're screwed.  But, the likelihood of that is very low.  The likelihood of a lock with the stock setup is low, but not low enough for my taste.

[Rocketman]

It must take some time to shut the pingle off. I would think it's better to shut off the pingle  before shutting the bike off to prevent hyrolock because of a stuck float valve

It doesn't take any more time than the stock petcock.  Maybe even less, but since that's so minimal, we won't quibble in fractions of seconds.
Shutting off prior to engine stop is probably best, but unless you've got a large leak, not required.

Perhaps I worry more than I should about reaching way under the bike to switch the Pingel as I'm mostly 75mph on the tarmac every day and always run to reserve before filling up.

Don't worry about it at all.  After the second or third time of doing it from the saddle, it's second nature.  I do it all the time.

Mark

[Rocketman]

If you want to read a funny motorcycle story about a hydrolock experience on a Valkyrie and ridiculous good luck, click below.  I can't defend the idiot--How dumb he (er, ah . . .I) was will make your skin crawl reading it, but it will make you laugh (I wasn't laughing at the time).  An extreme example of just how strong the Valks are.  Godly strong bikes built by the gods, for the gods.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590035 

40 mph push "start", with a locked engine?  How did you keep from bending a rod???  Is that really true?  Wow.

[strawbobrob]

40 mph push "start", with a locked engine?  How did you keep from bending a rod???  Is that really true?  Wow.

--I do understand why you'd ask.  The story is absolutely 100% the truth, although one slight adjustment would be that the 40mph is what was indicated on the speedometer, so call it 35 or 36mph.  I suppose the answer is that every time I tried to pushstart it at increased speeds, the weakest link in the whole chain of stress kept giving out first, which was the tire's grip on the asphalt.  I had never tried push starting a motorcycle before and didn't have a sense for how hard or easy it would be to get the engine to turn over.  Hydrolocking never ocurred to me.  I was sure it was just a bad battery and got fixated.

[Rocketman]

Impressive.  I still would expect it to have done some damage.  Good to know that it won't, I suppose.  (:
As for how fast it needs to be, I've push started a Valkyrie by myself, on flat ground.  I don't run very fast, so it wasn't rolling very fast when I dumped the clutch.  Even if the battery's real bad, it will at least turn the engine a few times.

Side note:  I really enjoyed your storytelling.  Thanks.

Another side note:  I'm also impressed that you managed to keep it upright in that long of a skid, after being as flustered as you'd have to be during that process.  Did you check your tire for a flat spot that you might have worn into it?  (:

[Ricky-D]

"I suppose the answer is that every time I tried to pushstart it at increased speeds, the weakest link.................................................... was the tire's grip on the asphalt."

I agree with you about this, most times trying to (pushstart) jump start a motorcycle you would find having the transmission in a higher gear will greatly increase the ability of the momentum to turn the motor over. Doing the exercise in first gear is fruitless!

***