Same sex marriage

[hubcapsc]

"study and understand God's Word and then apply it to my life as best as I can."   Great Idea!

What does that have to do with the Gov't or federal/state law ?

Homosexuals don't deserve to be screwed over by the government, it is perhaps the case that
there is some kind of "civil union" status they could be granted which would allow them the
same tax breaks and whatever other government-related advantages that marriage provides...

Prior to and throughout most of the 20th century, common standard psychology viewed
homosexuality in terms of pathological models as a mental illness.

        ...

Consequently, while some still believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, the current research and clinical literature now only demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality, reflecting the official positions of the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association.

I think it is normal and positive for the American Psychiatric Association to have an opinion.

-Mike

[RoadKill]

"study and understand God's Word and then apply it to my life as best as I can."   Great Idea!

What does that have to do with the Gov't or federal/state law ?

Homosexuals don't deserve to be screwed over by the government, it is perhaps the case that
there is some kind of "civil union" status they could be granted which would allow them the
same tax breaks and whatever other government-related advantages that marriage provides...

Prior to and throughout most of the 20th century, common standard psychology viewed
homosexuality in terms of pathological models as a mental illness.

        ...

Consequently, while some still believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, the current research and clinical literature now only demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality, reflecting the official positions of the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association.

I think it is normal and positive for the American Psychiatric Association to have an opinion.

-Mike

What does that have to do with religion?   

[Bobbo]

Describing parallels in your opinion and that of WBC does not imply you hate homosexuals.  You expressed concern that God will decide we have become as Sodom and Gomorrah and there will be eternal repercussions because of it.  WBC shares this concern, and it is the basis of their protests.  WBC goes much further, and believes these repercussions are happening already, as witnessed by military deaths.  I am not suggesting you are a member of WBC, or that you will join their protests.

The Bible verses were from WBC's website, which they use to justify their beliefs and protests.  They are probably among the same verses you interpret to show God's disapproval of homosexuality.

The converse of a statement is formed by switching the hypothesis and the conclusion. The converse of "If two lines don't intersect, then they are parallel" is "If two lines are parallel, then they don't intersect." The converse of "if p , then q " is "if q , then p ."
 
The truth value of the converse of a statement is not always the same as the original statement. For example, the converse of "All tigers are mammals" is "All mammals are tigers." This is certainly not true.

If you are going to a math, logic, and statistics fight, you shouldn't go empty handed...   

It is polite to give credit to the "cut and paste" statement above, even if is only tangentially related to the topic.
http://www.sparknotes.com/math/geometry3/logicstatements/section3.rhtml

I'll site the source of the following freedictionary definition of "parallels":
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parallel

Specifically these:
3. To be similar or analogous to: claimed that fetal development parallels the evolution of the species.
4. To be or provide an equal for; match.
5. To show to be analogous; compare or liken: critics who have paralleled the novel's plot to an ancient myth.

My first statement is not a hypothesis with conclusion.  Quite the opposite, it says "If p, then not necessarily q".

[3fan4life]

If you are going to a math, logic, and statistics fight, you shouldn't go empty handed... 

WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT I'M THINKING, HAVE YOU SUDDENLY ADDED INTERNET MIND READING TO YOUR SKILL LIST ?

The bottom line is this, the idiots at WBC may indeed have read some of the same Bible verses as I.

However, I read them and determined that "TIGERS ARE MAMMALS", they read them and determined that  ""ALL MAMMALS ARE TIGERS".

Same source two completely opposite conclusions.


BESIDES by making this an argument about the WBC idiots religious beliefs aren't you contradicting some of your former posts stating that they are in it for the MONEY ?

That sort of response is EXACTLY what WBC prays for, probably more than dead soldiers.  Don't think for a minute that they don't have surveillance equipment recording everything around them.  That's the main reason they do this, for the lawsuits.

How will they make money if no one is "pissed off"?

Once they realize that no one is listening, and they have no legal or monetary gain from these protests, then they will stop.

[Paxton]

If anyone is worried about authenticity and doesn't trust God to keep His word then the Dead Sea Scrolls have some interest for you not to mention for just historical interest Josephus is pretty good. The book of the Essen's is also essential reading.

Paxton is that the atheist decree?

Robert, Sir;
AUTHENTICITY AND TRUST...
I do "worry about authenticity" when it comes to Valkyrie accessories... although "I do trust (vendors) to keep their word."

ESSENTIAL READINGS...
Regarding your "essential reading" list, some might follow your guidance...
When you spend a life time scaring yourself and others about how God's wrath will visit upon us,
"bad strokes are better than no strokes at all..."

What's "essential" to you may not be as essential to others... Am just saying...
In my case, deciding on "paper or plastic," "boxers or briefs..." or keeping the correct tire pressure is more often essential
than reading Dead Sea Scrolls...

There is a lot of stuff out there to read these days. But speaking for myself, during the immediate future, I must concentrate on
the "Valkyrie's Dead Sea Scrolls," otherwise known as the Shop Manual...

BTW, there is a guy at work named Joseph Us and he is "pretty good..."  I'm not sure if he is the same Josephus dude you are referencing...
but he is pretty good... and his name is indeed, Joseph Us; same last name.
A weird coincidence or what..?

As for his stuff, Essen does not like lending his books to other folks. He seems peculiar about that.
So, I checked w/Amazon
and they aren't printing his books anymore ... bummer!

ATHEIST DECREE...
I can't answer this question. I'm not sure what the atheist decree is... 
...have not read it. But if I was a betting man,
I'd bet a used Valkyrie inner-tube that you might have read it several times... you seem to have a good grasp on reality... perhaps even a monopoly.

Think about it, your "reality" is yours and yours only. Therefore, by necessity you do have a monopoly on it... and everyone else monopolizes their own...
Indeed, some would throw themselves on the sword asserting the supremacy of their own reality over yours, mine ... everyone elses'?

Your asking questions like that (Atheist Decree) to lesser beings and w/o the benefit of your wisdom, might  feel like "cruel and unusual punishment..." to some.
Torturing smaller-mind folks w/your wisdom it tickles... although you are not alone. It sometimes has a pandemic quality to it.

Notwithstanding, it is good for us who might lack a reality compass that you are here to illuminate our hearts and souls... ???

For me, none of that is a problem... I do sometimes enjoy fiction...

RIDE SAFE

"I am out of my mind, but I'll be right back."

[Walküre]

Don't like "Same Sex Marriage"?? Blame the straight couples!!!! THEY'RE the ones having all the gay babies!!

R

[Varmintmist]

Homosexuals don't deserve to be screwed over by the government, it is perhaps the case that
there is some kind of "civil union" status they could be granted which would allow them the
same tax breaks and whatever other government-related advantages that marriage provides...

That would be OK, however that is not what they want. They want to be termed married so that they can be "normal" and you MUST accept them. They are forcing their beliefs on you at the point of a gun.

Its a change of definition for politicly correct purposes. Think of "wetlands" for example, and how a "nagavable waterway" has become anything, including mud puddles, if any one wants to control your property. Think about the ramifications of bending terms that no one ever thought could be used in the way that someone is now.

[The Anvil]

They are forcing their beliefs on you at the point of a gun.

 

[Bobbo]

If you are going to a math, logic, and statistics fight, you shouldn't go empty handed... 

WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT I'M THINKING, HAVE YOU SUDDENLY ADDED INTERNET MIND READING TO YOUR SKILL LIST ?

The bottom line is this, the idiots at WBC may indeed have read some of the same Bible verses as I.

However, I read them and determined that "TIGERS ARE MAMMALS", they read them and determined that  ""ALL MAMMALS ARE TIGERS".

Same source two completely opposite conclusions.


BESIDES by making this an argument about the WBC idiots religious beliefs aren't you contradicting some of your former posts stating that they are in it for the MONEY ?

That sort of response is EXACTLY what WBC prays for, probably more than dead soldiers.  Don't think for a minute that they don't have surveillance equipment recording everything around them.  That's the main reason they do this, for the lawsuits.

How will they make money if no one is "pissed off"?

Once they realize that no one is listening, and they have no legal or monetary gain from these protests, then they will stop.

No, I'm not a mind reader.  I have to go on what post you quote and your reply to the quoted post.  You quoted my post then described the converse of a sentence.

Describing your concerns as parallel to WBC does not imply equality in whole, as your converse statement requires.

I haven't contradicted any of those statements.  WBC believes that God is smiting the US due to our tolerance for homosexuality.   WBC's desire for attention and lawsuits is behind the outrageous protest venues they choose.   These statements aren't contradictory, but rather causation and effect.

[Bobbo]

That would be OK, however that is not what they want. They want to be termed married so that they can be "normal" and you MUST accept them. They are forcing their beliefs on you at the point of a gun.

Much like when "Negros" of the early 60's demanded equality so they could be "normal", and you MUST accept them.  Many whites believed the "Negros" were forcing their beliefs on them while challenging the status quo.

[Fla. Jim]

Don't like "Same Sex Marriage"?? Blame the straight couples!!!! THEY'RE the ones having all the gay babies!!

R

LOL    +1

Guess the whole be fruitful and multiply thing gets out of hand occasionally. So God make Gays and Dikes to slow things down. Just a joke gents. You, guys need to ride more! Daylight is coming. All is not black and God doesn't need us to rectify what he has made, or if you are of the mind set allowed to be. He is more than capable of doing what he does.

[SANDMAN5]

WBC believes that God is smiting the US due to our tolerance for homosexuality.

While we're on that subject, I remember hearing people say that God used Katrina to
try and destroy New Orleans because of it's God-less culture and attitude. No. If God
tried to destroy New Orleans it would no longer exist. Not only that, God is not "mad"
at us anymore. That was what Jesus was doing on the Cross, paying for our sins. That's
why I get a chuckle when people say things like "If you're a Christian shouldn't you be
making animal sacrifices?". Hilarious and sad at the same time.

[Bobbo]

WBC believes that God is smiting the US due to our tolerance for homosexuality.

While we're on that subject, I remember hearing people say that God used Katrina to
try and destroy New Orleans because of it's God-less culture and attitude. No. If God
tried to destroy New Orleans it would no longer exist. Not only that, God is not "mad"
at us anymore. That was what Jesus was doing on the Cross, paying for our sins. That's
why I get a chuckle when people say things like "If you're a Christian shouldn't you be
making animal sacrifices?". Hilarious and sad at the same time.

What's sadder, is that only "Christians" are making those claims...

[3fan4life]

I haven't contradicted any of those statements.  WBC believes that God is smiting the US due to our tolerance for homosexuality.   WBC's desire for attention and lawsuits is behind the outrageous protest venues they choose.   These statements aren't contradictory, but rather causation and effect.

I have shown 3 examples of where you CLEARLY stated that MONEY and NOT RELIGION is the motivation of the WBC idiots:

That sort of response is EXACTLY what WBC prays for, probably more than dead soldiers.  Don't think for a minute that they don't have surveillance equipment recording everything around them.  That's the main reason they do this, for the lawsuits.

How will they make money if no one is "pissed off"?

Once they realize that no one is listening, and they have no legal or monetary gain from these protests, then they will stop.

NOW YOU want to BACK PEDAL.

So do you stand by your previous posts or are you retracting them ?

You may have missed your true calling in life, I'm thinking that you should have been a politician.


Now, what started this argument between you and I was your assertion that my views validated the views of WBC.

A statement that I VEHEMENTLY disagree with.

And no AMOUNT of BACK PEDALING or WORD TWISTING from you will change that.

Now I"m gong for a RIDE on my VALK.

Maybe you should take your own advice:

 

Sounds like you need to chill and discover the REAL reason to ride!

 

[Bobbo]

I have shown 3 examples of where you CLEARLY stated that MONEY and NOT RELIGION is the motivation of the WBC idiots:

Not to beat this thing to death, but you refuse to understand my point.  Maybe extra emphasis would help.  I have clearly stated that money is the motivation behind the outrageous venues they choose.  Their agenda is to get the message out that God is punishing the US for our ungodly ways.  Their strategy is to do this in a way that gets attention and potential financial gain.  Their tactic is to use soldiers funerals as protest venues.  I can think of no other way to be clearer.

NOW YOU want to BACK PEDAL.

So do you stand by your previous posts or are you retracting them ?

You may have missed your true calling in life, I'm thinking that you should have been a politician.


Now, what started this argument between you and I was your assertion that my views validated the views of WBC.

A statement that I VEHEMENTLY disagree with.

And no AMOUNT of BACK PEDALING or WORD TWISTING from you will change that.

Now I"m gong for a RIDE on my VALK.

Maybe you should take your own advice:

 

Sounds like you need to chill and discover the REAL reason to ride!

There is no backpedaling involved.  I stand behind all of those posts.  Saying your views parallel WBC's does not mean your views validate the views of WBC, only that they are similar.  I would disagree that your view, and WBC's view, is valid.

[SANDMAN5]

What's sadder, is that only "Christians" are making those claims... 

Wrong. Some were Christians, some were religious people, some didn't care
one way or the other.

[SANDMAN5]

NOW YOU want to BACK PEDAL.
So do you stand by your previous posts or are you retracting them ?

He has been known to do that. Reverse his views in the same thread
and then refuse to admit it. I think it has to do with the color of pill
he takes on that particular day. 

[Bobbo]

NOW YOU want to BACK PEDAL.
So do you stand by your previous posts or are you retracting them ?

He has been known to do that. Reverse his views in the same thread
and then refuse to admit it. I think it has to do with the color of pill
he takes on that particular day. 

I know you have to convince yourself of that rather than face the inconvenience of admitting you failed to understand some of my posts.  If you consider expanding my posts and explaining in detail some of my expressions as backpedaling, then possibly you don't understand it's definition.

[ValhallaIamComing]

In other news.... Honda used to make this neato motorcycle called the Valkyrie, and many riders to this day maintain enthusiasm over them...

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I have a very simple question I ask myself when I'm deciding if any activity should be banned by the government or not.

Does allowing this activity directly harm other citizens?

And quite frankly, I can't figure out a way that allowing two people to enter into the legal bonds of marriage causes any harm to anyone else, so I'm all in favor of allowing it...

The thought of that occurring might offend some, but those people are also generally the same ones that turn around later and proclaim that no one has the right to not be offended... (And they would be right!)

Have to admit, I agree. Also, there's too dang many people in the world already and I assume they populate less.

[Kidd]

what would you do if u fell in love with a beautiful woman and  were engaged to her , then , she told u she used to be a man , what would u do ??????

Huh , what ?

nononono , never happened to me

[Bobbo]

Have to admit, I agree. Also, there's too dang many people in the world already and I assume they populate less.

And quite often adopt, although that is met with extreme resistance by homophobes and misinformed people.

[3fan4life]

Not to beat this thing to death, but you refuse to understand my point. 

No YOU REFUSE to UNDESTAND MY POINT.

SO LET's REVIEW:

Here is the original post that you decided to defend:

*Boy I had no idea this was gonna turn into a Westboro Baptist Church rally when I joined this forum! 

*This is a joke. Please relax.

Here is my post that you used to defend it (highlights added):

Government was never meant to be the sanctioning body for marriage.

If Government had never gotten involved in sanctioning marriage in the first place then this would be a non-issue.

I don't believe in "Gay Marriage" in my mind homosexuality is just plain "wrong".

Am I going to stand on the street corner with protest signs?  NO, I am not.

While I don't agree with homosexuality, I do agree that what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom is their business (I just wish that they would leave it in the bedroom and not parade it in the streets).

What bothers me the most about Official Gay Marriage is that it essentially says that the government has sanctioned homosexuality as being acceptable.

The Bible does say in many places that homosexuality is wrong.

When I think of our Government officially sanctioning homosexuality I think about the story of Sodom and Gomorrah:

But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before Jehovah, exceedingly so.  (Gen 13:13)

And there came two angels to Sodom at evening. And Lot sat in the gate of Sodom. And Lot rose up to meet them when he saw them. And he bowed himself with his face toward the ground, and said, Behold now, my lords, please turn into your servant's house and stay all night, and wash your feet, and you shall rise up early and go your way. And they said, No, but we will stay in the street.
But he urgently pressed on them, and they turned in to him and entered into his house. And he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both old and young, all the people from every quarter. And they called to Lot, and said to him, Where are the men which came in to you this night? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.  And Lot went out to the door to them, and shut the door after him.  And he said, I pray you, brothers, do not act evilly. (Gen 19:1-7 )

And when the dawn rose up, then the angels hurried Lot, saying, Rise up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the iniquity of the city. (Gen 19:15) 

Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire, from Jehovah out of the heavens.  And He overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. (Gen 19:24-25)

What I worry about is, what if God decides that our country has become as wicked as Sodom and Gomorrah?

I have to agree with Big Al, I think that rampant homosexuality is what resulted in the demise of the Roman Empire.  I think that God did become displeased with them and allowed their fall.

Someone coined the phrase, "Hate the sin LOVE the sinner" (no it's not in the bible).

That is where I stand on homosexuals and homosexuality, I detest the sin but I don't hate the sinners.

I have friends and co-workers that are homosexual.

They know that I like them and treat them no differently than any of my heterosexual friends, but they also know that I don't approve of their "lifestyle" and they respect that. 

The Gay marriage thing isn't anything that I'm going to lose sleep over, ("Que Sera Sera").

But I do think that somewhere, someday, somehow there will be eternal repercussions because of it.


For those of you that think the Christian View of Homosexuality is archaic and outdated just compare it to Islam's view.

This is your post attempting to use my post to defend the original post (and the one that drew my ire):

What I worry about is, what if God decides that our country has become as wicked as Sodom and Gomorrah?

I have to agree with Big Al, I think that rampant homosexuality is what resulted in the demise of the Roman Empire.  I think that God did become displeased with them and allowed their fall.


But I do think that somewhere, someday, somehow there will be eternal repercussions because of it.

Willow, please note that The Anvil's attempt at raw humor at the group may not be that far off...

These sentiments reflect exactly the sentiments of Westboro Baptist, except he expressed them here instead of at a funeral.

This is your latest BACK PEDAL post:
   

There is no backpedaling involved.  I stand behind all of those posts.  Saying your views parallel WBC's does not mean your views validate the views of WBC, only that they are similar.  I would disagree that your view, and WBC's view, is valid.

OK BOBBO,

WHEN DID SIMILAR AND EXACTLY COME TO MEAN THE SAME THING ?

[Bobbo]

This is your post attempting to use my post to defend the original post (and the one that drew my ire):

What I worry about is, what if God decides that our country has become as wicked as Sodom and Gomorrah?

I have to agree with Big Al, I think that rampant homosexuality is what resulted in the demise of the Roman Empire.  I think that God did become displeased with them and allowed their fall.


But I do think that somewhere, someday, somehow there will be eternal repercussions because of it.

Willow, please note that The Anvil's attempt at raw humor at the group may not be that far off...

These sentiments reflect exactly the sentiments of Westboro Baptist, except he expressed them here instead of at a funeral.

This is your latest BACK PEDAL post:
   

There is no backpedaling involved.  I stand behind all of those posts.  Saying your views parallel WBC's does not mean your views validate the views of WBC, only that they are similar.  I would disagree that your view, and WBC's view, is valid.

OK BOBBO,

WHEN DID SIMILAR AND EXACTLY COME TO MEAN THE SAME THING ?

Well, if you must go to extremes in detail...

The term EXACTLY referred to those specifically named sentiments mirroring WBC.

The term SIMILAR refers to your views in general, which you expanded on in subsequent posts.  They do not match exactly, hence similar.

Both terms are closely related.

I still stand behind all of my posts.

[3fan4life]

Well, if you must go to extremes in detail...

The term EXACTLY referred to those specifically named sentiments mirroring WBC.

The term SIMILAR refers to your views in general, which you expanded on in subsequent posts.  They do not match exactly, hence similar.

Both terms are closely related.

I still stand behind all of my posts.

That's like saying that Harley's and Valkyrie's are EXACTLY alike because they are both motorcycles.

You really DO NOT possess the ABILITY to ADMIT when you are WRONG do you ?


There is a sign on the wall of a local restaurant here, it reads:

NEVER TRY TO TEACH A PIG TO SING

IT ONLY WASTES YOUR TIME

AND IT ANNOYS THE PIG

I am sorry that I have wasted my time and that I have annoyed you.

[Bobbo]

Well, if you must go to extremes in detail...

The term EXACTLY referred to those specifically named sentiments mirroring WBC.

The term SIMILAR refers to your views in general, which you expanded on in subsequent posts.  They do not match exactly, hence similar.

Both terms are closely related.

I still stand behind all of my posts.

That's like saying that Harley's and Valkyrie's are EXACTLY alike because they are both motorcycles.

You really DO NOT possess the ABILITY to ADMIT when you are WRONG do you ?


There is a sign on the wall of a local restaurant here, it reads:

NEVER TRY TO TEACH A PIG TO SING

IT ONLY WASTES YOUR TIME

AND IT ANNOYS THE PIG

I am sorry that I have wasted my time and that I have annoyed you.

You asked for an ultra detailed explanation between my two statements.  That you are unwilling to understand or accept it is your problem.

A sure sign they you have lost the debate as well as your credibility is when you resort to name calling.  I'm sure that if you insist on continuing this shot in the dark pursuit, the Admins will pull the entire conversation.

[3fan4life]

You asked for an ultra detailed explanation between my two statements.  That you are unwilling to understand or accept it is your problem.

A sure sign they you have lost the debate as well as your credibility is when you resort to name calling.  I'm sure that if you insist on continuing this shot in the dark pursuit, the Admins will pull the entire conversation.

No NAME CALLING INVOLVED.

YOU STATED THAT MY VIEWS WERE EXACTLY THE SAME AS WBC.

I TOOK EXCEPTION TO THAT

THEN YOU BACK PEDALED AND SAID THAT YOU SAID MY VIEWS WERE SIMILAR

I REFERRED YOU BACK TO YOUR POST WHERE YOU SAID EXACTLY

YOU CONTINUED TO ATTEMPT TO BACK PEDAL

I FINALLY REALIZED THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DEBATE WITH SOMEONE THAT WON'T ADMIT THAT THEY ARE WRONG EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SHOWN EXACTLY WHAT THEY REALLY SAID.

I HAVE CAME TO REALIZE THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE ABILTY TO ADMIT THAT YOU ARE WRONG

I HAVE ALSO CAME TO REALIZE THAT YOU WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR THE SLANDER THAT YOU HAVE PERPRETATED UPON MY CHARACTER

THE QUOTING OF THE SIGN WAS AN ANALOGY TO THAT EFFECT


THIS ARGUMENT IS OFFICIALLY OVER

I'M CALLING IT A STALEMATE AND GOING TO BED.

[Paxton]

"It is always the false that makes you suffer, the false desires and fears, the false values and ideas,
the false relationships between people... Abandon the false and you are free of pain; truth makes happy, truth liberates." 

— Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[The Anvil]

You asked for an ultra detailed explanation between my two statements.  That you are unwilling to understand or accept it is your problem.

A sure sign they you have lost the debate as well as your credibility is when you resort to name calling.  I'm sure that if you insist on continuing this shot in the dark pursuit, the Admins will pull the entire conversation.

No NAME CALLING INVOLVED.

YOU STATED THAT MY VIEWS WERE EXACTLY THE SAME AS WBC.

I TOOK EXCEPTION TO THAT

THEN YOU BACK PEDALED AND SAID THAT YOU SAID MY VIEWS WERE SIMILAR

I REFERRED YOU BACK TO YOUR POST WHERE YOU SAID EXACTLY

YOU CONTINUED TO ATTEMPT TO BACK PEDAL

I FINALLY REALIZED THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DEBATE WITH SOMEONE THAT WON'T ADMIT THAT THEY ARE WRONG EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SHOWN EXACTLY WHAT THEY REALLY SAID.

I HAVE CAME TO REALIZE THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE ABILTY TO ADMIT THAT YOU ARE WRONG

I HAVE ALSO CAME TO REALIZE THAT YOU WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR THE SLANDER THAT YOU HAVE PERPRETATED UPON MY CHARACTER

THE QUOTING OF THE SIGN WAS AN ANALOGY TO THAT EFFECT


THIS ARGUMENT IS OFFICIALLY OVER

I'M CALLING IT A STALEMATE AND GOING TO BED.

Stop yelling at us!!! 

[BIG--T]

"If God doesn't judge America He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah"...Billy Graham


An atheist may never admit it, but deep down he HAS to know something  strange is going on and is even getting worse. The world is so evil and continuing in evil, homosexualality is probably worse than the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, all the storms, floods, like we have never seen, earthquakes, diseases including the " green monkey virus", famine, wars and all "natural disasters". This is global, not just America.

Yes my friends, Jesus is coming soon so be ready. He really loves you no matter what you've done and wishes none would perish but all would come to repentance.

I accidently stumbled upon this written back in 09 and thought I would share this with you.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?ArticleID=1048

[Fla. Jim]

"If God doesn't judge America He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah"...Billy Graham


An atheist may never admit it, but deep down he HAS to know something  strange is going on and is even getting worse. The world is so evil and continuing in evil, homosexualality is probably worse than the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, all the storms, floods, like we have never seen, earthquakes, diseases including the " green monkey virus", famine, wars and all "natural disasters". This is global, not just America.

Yes my friends, Jesus is coming soon so be ready. He really loves you no matter what you've done and wishes none would perish but all would come to repentance. I accidently stumbled upon this written back in 09 and thought I would share this with you.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?ArticleID=1048

Come now, surely you don't profess to know that the end is near. My end is near your end is near but Christ coming? Also as a Christian we are admonished to be ready always so why pick a time? We know not the time nor can we. Yes I know about the signs to be fulfilled but who is to say that what we think are the signs really are them. and not just wishful thinking? Here is a site listing some of the better known end of time predictors. Would post them but bandwidth could be compromised.
http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

[The Anvil]

"If God doesn't judge America He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah"...Billy Graham


An atheist may never admit it, but deep down he HAS to know something  strange is going on and is even getting worse. The world is so evil and continuing in evil, homosexualality is probably worse than the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, all the storms, floods, like we have never seen, earthquakes, diseases including the " green monkey virus", famine, wars and all "natural disasters". This is global, not just America.

Yes my friends, Jesus is coming soon so be ready. He really loves you no matter what you've done and wishes none would perish but all would come to repentance. I accidently stumbled upon this written back in 09 and thought I would share this with you.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?ArticleID=1048

Come now, surely you don't profess to know that the end is near. My end is near your end is near but Christ coming? Also as a Christian we are admonished to be ready always so why pick a time? We know not the time nor can we. Yes I know about the signs to be fulfilled but who is to say that what we think are the signs really are them. and not just wishful thinking? Here is a site listing some of the better known end of time predictors. Would post them but bandwidth could be compromised.
http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

As bad as we think it is, it's been worse, both worldwide and in America. America faced a greater challenge at a time before our status as a world superpower was assured and we prevailed. If we do not now it will be our own fault and the among the factors contributing to failure will be rampant negativity and defeatism. I still believe in America's capacity to be the best in the world. Do I believe we have the will? Well that I'm not sure of. I know that we're not going to rise above this by regressing to depression-era attitudes towards the backbone of America (aka: the working class).

Remember two world wars? The holocaust? I can think of no more appropriate time in history (including today) for Armageddon than 1945. But it didn't happen then (or DID it???) so why now?

[Walküre]

An atheist may never admit it, but deep down he HAS to know something  strange is going on and is even getting worse. The world is so evil and continuing in evil, homosexualality is probably worse than the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, all the storms, floods, like we have never seen, earthquakes, diseases including the " green monkey virus", famine, wars and all "natural disasters". This is global, not just America.

Hmmmm...always amazes me, that when someone believes differently than you, and detests things that you don't, they inevitably resort to tell YOU what YOU think, how YOU feel, what YOUR thoughts are, etc, etc, such as gays - if you accept them, you realize they DONT' HAVE A CHOICE, by their admission, but if you are (usually) of the religulous believe that they are an abomination to god, morally wrong, etc, then YOU have the audacity to decide that THEY have a "CHOICE", and that they are liars, in that they tell you they don't have a choice, and you call them "abnormal". Almost as if THAT way, you can accept them and your god, at the same time....HE couldn't make a mistake, so THEY must make the mistake. As a friend told me, after he lost EVERY thing he ever held dear - family, jobs, friends - when he "came out", "why the F*&^K do you think I would choose this??". Uncommon is NOT abnormal. Different is NOT always bad. I never had a "choice" to be gay OR straight - I just was what I am. Now, if YOU can picture them having a choice, that tells ME that YOU had a choice, that you COULD be gay, or were gay, and chose straight, instead. Guess that puts you square with god....

And, since I'm an atheist, I am CONSTANTLY being told what I "believe", what I "mean", as shown above. I see it all the time. Just as you all like to tout your superiority as the "chosen", I tout my freedom from superstitions, long evolved from people trying to rule, conquer other people, and exert their beliefs over others, in the guise of religion. This world is no more yours, than mine, REGARDLESS of what you think. If you are correct, then you'll have your rewards after you die. If I'm correct, then you have been fooled. Either way, we both have to coexist in this world together during our time on it. I do my best NOT to infringe on your beliefs, and your rights, but feel that you are compelled by no other THAN those beliefs, to impress them upon me, and all others. That's where I have to draw the line - keep your god and your beliefs out of my life, my schools, and my public buildings...and perhaps we'll coexist just a little bit better. I already keep my beliefs out of your church, home, and YOUR functions. I expect the same respect.

R

[BIG--T]

"If God doesn't judge America He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah"...Billy Graham


An atheist may never admit it, but deep down he HAS to know something  strange is going on and is even getting worse. The world is so evil and continuing in evil, homosexualality is probably worse than the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, all the storms, floods, like we have never seen, earthquakes, diseases including the " green monkey virus", famine, wars and all "natural disasters". This is global, not just America.

Yes my friends, Jesus is coming soon so be ready. He really loves you no matter what you've done and wishes none would perish but all would come to repentance. I accidently stumbled upon this written back in 09 and thought I would share this with you.

http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?ArticleID=1048

Come now, surely you don't profess to know that the end is near. My end is near your end is near but Christ coming? Also as a Christian we are admonished to be ready always so why pick a time? We know not the time nor can we. Yes I know about the signs to be fulfilled but who is to say that what we think are the signs really are them. and not just wishful thinking? Here is a site listing some of the better known end of time predictors. Would post them but bandwidth could be compromised.
http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

As bad as we think it is, it's been worse, both worldwide and in America. America faced a greater challenge at a time before our status as a world superpower was assured and we prevailed. If we do not now it will be our own fault and the among the factors contributing to failure will be rampant negativity and defeatism. I still believe in America's capacity to be the best in the world. Do I believe we have the will? Well that I'm not sure of. I know that we're not going to rise above this by regressing to depression-era attitudes towards the backbone of America (aka: the working class).

Remember two world wars? The holocaust? I can think of no more appropriate time in history (including today) for Armageddon than 1945. But it didn't happen then (or DID it???) so why now?

I've wondered about the holocaust and I bet they did think it was Armageddon and Hitler was the Anti Christ. Yes there has always been evil, immorality, natural disasters, diseases , etc since the beginning of time but it is becoming more frequent and more intense. 

[Walküre]

I've wondered about the holocaust and I bet they did think it was Armageddon and Hitler was the Anti Christ. Yes there has always been evil, immorality, natural disasters, diseases , etc since the beginning of time but it is becoming more frequent and more intense. 

Oh??? More frequent and intense, than the near-200 years of the Crusades?? Or the Inquisition? Or the invasion of the "New World", along with the decimation of races, through murder, and the introduction of unknown (to the natives) diseases? Or the centuries of slavery?? Get real. The Holocaust was a "walk in the park" compared to some other times. Now, before you get fluffed, the Holocaust WAS one of the worst things ever to happen to this world. But man has done MUCH worse, over the years.

R

R

[BIG--T]

An atheist may never admit it, but deep down he HAS to know something  strange is going on and is even getting worse. The world is so evil and continuing in evil, homosexualality is probably worse than the time of Sodom and Gomorrah, all the storms, floods, like we have never seen, earthquakes, diseases including the " green monkey virus", famine, wars and all "natural disasters". This is global, not just America.

Hmmmm...always amazes me, that when someone believes differently than you, and detests things that you don't, they inevitably resort to tell YOU what YOU think, how YOU feel, what YOUR thoughts are, etc, etc, such as gays - if you accept them, you realize they DONT' HAVE A CHOICE, by their admission, but if you are (usually) of the religulous believe that they are an abomination to god, morally wrong, etc, then YOU have the audacity to decide that THEY have a "CHOICE", and that they are liars, in that they tell you they don't have a choice, and you call them "abnormal". Almost as if THAT way, you can accept them and your god, at the same time....HE couldn't make a mistake, so THEY must make the mistake. As a friend told me, after he lost EVERY thing he ever held dear - family, jobs, friends - when he "came out", "why the F*&^K do you think I would choose this??". Uncommon is NOT abnormal. Different is NOT always bad. I never had a "choice" to be gay OR straight - I just was what I am. Now, if YOU can picture them having a choice, that tells ME that YOU had a choice, that you COULD be gay, or were gay, and chose straight, instead. Guess that puts you square with god....

And, since I'm an atheist, I am CONSTANTLY being told what I "believe", what I "mean", as shown above. I see it all the time. Just as you all like to tout your superiority as the "chosen", I tout my freedom from superstitions, long evolved from people trying to rule, conquer other people, and exert their beliefs over others, in the guise of religion. This world is no more yours, than mine, REGARDLESS of what you think. If you are correct, then you'll have your rewards after you die. If I'm correct, then you have been fooled. Either way, we both have to coexist in this world together during our time on it. I do my best NOT to infringe on your beliefs, and your rights, but feel that you are compelled by no other THAN those beliefs, to impress them upon me, and all others. That's where I have to draw the line - keep your god and your beliefs out of my life, my schools, and my public buildings...and perhaps we'll coexist just a little bit better. I already keep my beliefs out of your church, home, and YOUR functions. I expect the same respect.

R

WOW, I really must have hit a nerve! Where did I mention homosexuals, mind reading, superiority, conquer other people?? . Keep God out of YOUR schools,  your public buildings?? I was making a general statement. I have the same rights and pay taxes same as you, correct? Choice is a very good point. God has given us all the free will to choose both to love him or not. Remember just because you choose not to believe in God doesn't mean there is no God or make it so.

About your "being fooled" comment, and you are right, I've had the happiest life ever since I was born again in 1996! I also was an atheist, alcoholic, and drug addict that only a risen Savior could set free! So now I have joy, peace and love and no worries when i die and if there was no heaven and eternal life that would be ok.. even though I know there is. But what if YOU are wrong? Living in misery here on earth and then when you die - if you don't repent, going to an eternal hell where the fire is never quenched and the soul never dies. And as bad as that is, if there were no hell, just to be seperated from God and seeing your loved ones with Jesus and people that tried to tell you about Him would be bad enough.

[BIG--T]

I've wondered about the holocaust and I bet they did think it was Armageddon and Hitler was the Anti Christ. Yes there has always been evil, immorality, natural disasters, diseases , etc since the beginning of time but it is becoming more frequent and more intense. 

Oh??? More frequent and intense, than the near-200 years of the Crusades?? Or the Inquisition? Or the invasion of the "New World", along with the decimation of races, through murder, and the introduction of unknown (to the natives) diseases? Or the centuries of slavery?? Get real. The Holocaust was a "walk in the park" compared to some other times. Now, before you get fluffed, the Holocaust WAS one of the worst things ever to happen to this world. But man has done MUCH worse, over the years.

R

R

Yes sir, unlike a generation ago we now have all the techknowledgy in place to see the bible fullfilled! The US alone could destroy the world several time over with nuclear weapons, let alone Russia and now China. Mark of the beast and every thing in Revelations and Daniel and many other places that I can clearly see now. Yep don't believe they could destroy the earth back then with a touch of a button!

[Chrisj CMA]

I respect anyone's beliefs.  But, what anyone believes is just that...what they believe.  The strength to which one holds to something has nothing to do with the reality of truth.  Truth needs noone to believe it for it to be true it just is and no belief/faith can make something true that isint.  Now the debate over what is true will march on for eternity but if anyone wants a government, a school system, legal system or any system void of God altogether, I suggest they go to a country that believes there is no God.  America is NOT that country

[SANDMAN5]

keep your god and your beliefs out of my life, my schools, and my public buildings

I prefer to keep God in MY life, MY schools, and MY PUBLIC buildings. You are doing EXACTLY
what you whine and complain about others doing!  

[SANDMAN5]

I tout my freedom from superstitions, long evolved from people trying to rule, conquer other people, and exert their beliefs over others, in the guise of religion.

I, too, am free from superstitions, I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If you don't
want to believe that, then don't. Also, if you're going to bring "religion" in to it, that's a
whole 'nother story. "Religion" is man's version of what God said. Anytime you hear a church
or religious group shouting about something, check it out in the Bible (or ask here in case
you don't want to read it). Make sure they're not doing like the WBC and just trying to get
on tv. NEVER did Jesus say to rule or conquer other people or exert our beliefs over others.
Quite the contrary. He told us to spread the Gospel around the world, and if someone didn't
want to listen or listened and don't want to believe, move on to greener pastures. I'm still amazed
that some athiests get upset when told they have a choice whether or not to believe in God!