Bouncy Forks

[TomE]

As I am getting used to my new-to-me Valk, I am noticing that the front forks are a bit bouncy. They are under-dampened like an old shock. The ride is a bit like one of those big floaty cars from the '60's.

I would like this thing to handle like my GL1000 with Progressives and Bridgestone tires. Where do I start?

Oh yes, the Cruiser only has 9,000 miles.

[PhredValk]

I would start with Progressive fork springs. Well under $100 and, with a special tool you could possibly borrow, you can install them yourself.
Fred.

[hubcapsc]

 +1 on progressive springs, your forks will go from bouncy to great...

-Mike

[The Anvil]

Progressive springs and new fork oil. This made a HUGE improvement to my bike. Now I just need to get those rear shock bushing and it'll handle like a superbike. 

[Dirty Dave]

My stock suspended Valk out handled my GL 1000 any day. The GoldWing had a fork brace and front & back progressives too. I have since upgraded the '97 Valk fore & aft (Progressives) and have not lived up to it's handling. Took the Lee Parks course on it. Amazing. I love my Valk!

[BF]

What weight oil would one need if replacing the front springs with the Progressives?

[X Ring]

I used the stock Honda fork oil with no problems.

Marty

[The Anvil]

What weight oil would one need if replacing the front springs with the Progressives?

I used stock weight and had good results. But I've heard that you can also use a slightly heavier weight without too much harshness. Personally I like my suspension pretty firm.

[Steve K (IA)]

At 9000 miles there should not be any problem with the springs.  If you are convinced there is something wrong, check the oil level.  If that is OK, I would replace the springs with OEM.   I put Progressive springs in my '00 I/S 10 years ago because people on this board claimed they were soooo good.  My opinion is quite different!   My '97 Std with OEM springs at 50,000 mile rides like a Cadillac.  Both have Progressive rear shocks.   I am no fan of their front springs.

[The Anvil]

At 9000 miles there should not be any problem with the springs.  If you are convinced there is something wrong, check the oil level.  If that is OK, I would replace the springs with OEM.   I put Progressive springs in my '00 I/S 10 years ago because people on this board claimed they were soooo good.  My opinion is quite different!   My '97 Std with OEM springs at 50,000 mile rides like a Cadillac.  Both have Progressive rear shocks.   I am no fan of their front springs.

My springs were almost an inch shorter than spec when they came out of the bike. Even the best quality spring steel will relax over time and the Valk is a BIG bike. It's not out of the realm of possibility to think that they're tired even with only 9000 miles on the clock.

As for replacing them with Progressive or OEM, well that's debatable and a matter of preference. But I'm much happier with the Progressives than I was with the tired OEM springs. Would I have been happier with new OEM? I dunno, but the Progressive springs had high recommendations and were cheaper than OEM.

[GOOSE]

i use 15 weight fork oil with both progressive, and the stock springs.

[hubcapsc]

I love my forks since I replaced the fluid and springs... I used 10wt oil, and filled the forks using the
springs-out-measure-from-the-top method, rather than putting a specific volume in each leg (both
methods are described in the manual)... The bounce went away, and I think my forks are stiff (I like
that) and responsive.

Stanley Steamer put 15wt in with his progressive springs, and later, because of a seal leak or something,
changed the oil again and ended up with 10wt... he hated the 10wt and redid it with 15wt and loves it
again...

It might be hard to know what you'll like till you try it...

At 9000 miles there should not be any problem with the springs.

Compared to Progressive springs, 0 mile OEM springs are a problem 

-Mike

[TomE]

MY understanding is that oil weight affects dampening, and spring rate affects how much pressure it takes to compress the spring a given distance, say one inch.

I have heard that I can adjust preload by putting a short length of PVC pipe in with the spring. By short, I mean an inch or so. While this may not help spring rate, it may get the OEM spring into a higher rate area sooner. By adjusting oil weight, I can speed up or slow the fork response time. I think. This might get rid of that floaty feeling.

I am thinking I want to try a 1 inch PVC preload and 15 weight fork oil. I used progressive springs on my last bike (a GL1000), and really liked them, but really, I think they mostly had more preload. I suspect that changing the fork oil weight had as much to do with the improved ride as anything.

Am I all wet, or does this idea have any merit?

Also, is there an easy way to change the fork oil? I don't see a drain plug down there. Do I need to get my brake bleeder out to pump the forks dry?

[Patrick]

Have you spoken with the previous owner to find out if anything has been changed[or done] ?? A change to heavier oil will make a big difference.. These monsters originally came with 10 wgt.. I happen to like progressive springs with 10 wgt oil [ shorten by 3 ounces], but, everyone has their preferences..

[The Anvil]

MY understanding is that oil weight affects dampening, and spring rate affects how much pressure it takes to compress the spring a given distance, say one inch.

I have heard that I can adjust preload by putting a short length of PVC pipe in with the spring. By short, I mean an inch or so. While this may not help spring rate, it may get the OEM spring into a higher rate area sooner. By adjusting oil weight, I can speed up or slow the fork response time. I think. This might get rid of that floaty feeling.

I am thinking I want to try a 1 inch PVC preload and 15 weight fork oil. I used progressive springs on my last bike (a GL1000), and really liked them, but really, I think they mostly had more preload. I suspect that changing the fork oil weight had as much to do with the improved ride as anything.

Am I all wet, or does this idea have any merit?

Also, is there an easy way to change the fork oil? I don't see a drain plug down there. Do I need to get my brake bleeder out to pump the forks dry?

I've heard of spacers being used to induce preload, usually on older bikes with non-adjustable suspension. It's an old racer's trick. As a matter of fact, I think some aftermarketeers offer a delrin preload spacer for the SV650 forks. Not sure how the Valk will respond to it though. Keep in mind that racers typically break down their stuff more often and the material you use can be important. PVC might shed material into the internals and that might hamper how well they work after a while.

[BigEagle]

I put in the Progressives with 15 weight full synth fork oil when I changed to a 6 degree triple tree with the fork extensions.  Now the front end is a bit stiffer than I like. I think the fork extensions added more preload to the Progressives. I'm hoping less, (or lighter, or both) fork oil will soften'er up. If that does't do it then I'll be going back to the stock springs.

[B]

There are certainly modifications you can make to change the handling ... I like my progressives and 10wt oil and my progressive air on the back. That said, with 1.5 times the engine (cylinders and cc's) and 1.5 times the weight (especially if you have the I/S) it's very likely the Valk may never mimic the GL 1000... But you'll grow to love the Valk.  My2cents.

[sheets]

Several years ago I swapped out the OEMs... went with Race Tech springs (the consensus at the time was to use the 0.9 weight spring. Somehow I ended up with the 1.0 ... whatever that represents). Vendor instructed me to add the one inch spacer for preload. Wrench buddy did the swap. The springs with spacers made the bike feel like the forks were filled with concrete. Zero suspension for my style of ride. Perhaps they would have worked on a motocross track. A month later I swapped them out with Progressives. All was good again. One day I'll put the RT springs back in... sans spacers. 

[BigEagle]

Sans spacers ( or in my case, fork extensions) would no doubt soften up my Progressives, but then my front end would drop some because of the 6 degree kick in the TT.  The more I think of it, the more I think I'm not thinking right.  I'm just gonna swap out the springs.  It's not so much the dampning, so instead of playing with the oil, I should try the stock springs with the fork extensions first.

[BigEagle]

I did the easiest thing first and took out the fork extensions today and left the Progressives and oil as is.  All is well again.  She's more steady and travels straight, without that annoying tendancy to wander.  I donno what those fork extensions were supposed to do, but all they did for me was screw things up.  I'm glad I took them out.

[ValkFlyer]

Here's my two cents....

I believe another relational issue involves the pre-load associated with the rear springs.  A new and stiffer front spring is more than likely going to call for a new preload adjustment to the rear springs.  Both front and rear springs need to work as if balanced.  In other words, if the rear end of your bike is following the front end, or slamming your spine your preload may be off, and with the Valk your primary and simplest adjustment is going to take place via the rear shocks, since the front end was not designed for adjustments.

A different way of looking at it would be something like this.  If you were to hit a soft dip in the road while traveling at let's say 30 mph, your suspension, both front and back, should compress and relax equally, that is, the bike dips and rises as a single unit.   If the bike is not handling in this manner an adjustment is needed. 

When I put my Progressive 440 HD's on, I found that I had to set them at nearly the softest value, because my front end began bouncing more than it had with the old shocks. However, once I then purchased and replaced my front OEM’s with new Progressives I found the ride again out of balance, harsh and jarring.  I upped the pre-load on my rear springs in order to soften and balance the ride. Here's the killer though, the difference in adjustment needed was only a complete rotation/turn, so it didn't take much to dial it in.  (Of course the riders weight, the spring type, rate, and quality are all going to create variations, so what’s good for me is not necessarily good for another).

Now having said all that one can choose to believe what I'm sharing, or not, but I will say that I’m sure the Honda engineers put plenty of work in to getting the Valk balanced just right, so why shouldn’t we expect that when or if we start raising or lowering the front and rear end of the bike, raking it, adding spacers, using different viscosities in oil, and or, changing the spring rates, that we’re not going to experience some issues that must be worked through.   I guess what I trying to say is one has to be fairly lucky when they can just pop a set of springs on their bike and find that there perfectly happy.

[DarkMeister]

On the oil-weight... On a roadtrip recently, suffered a blown seal and fork leak. When I took it into a shop alomng the way, they replaced both seals, fluid, etc.

What threw me for a loop was the service manager coming out and asking me what weight I wanted for oil. Being the wrench I am, I put my best mechanic look on my face and said "Huh?". She went on to explain that the book says 10W but I may wish to consider 15W. Why? Because most long rides are two-up, the bike is older and is "getting up there in mileage". (23K??? Getting up there??? I quickly realised that this was a Harley-Honda dealer and they might have confused the meaning of mileage).

After a quick review of facts at hand, I made an informed decision and directed them to use whatever they thought best. Just pulled my receipt and saw that they stuck with 10W.

[OldOneEye]

True plain 10W oil is not easy to find in normal automotive stores.
Several I stooped at just gave me a blank stare when I asked them for just old fashioned 10w oil.

I lucked out and found a o'reilly auto parts at 2204 East Lake Street Minneapolis, MN 55407 (612) 721-6533
They had hidden in the back a whole case of 1qt bottles, not even out on the shelves. he sold me one for under $3.00 out the door

[TomE]

True plain 10W oil is not easy to find in normal automotive stores.
Several I stooped at just gave me a blank stare when I asked them for just old fashioned 10w oil.

I lucked out and found a o'reilly auto parts at 2204 East Lake Street Minneapolis, MN 55407 (612) 721-6533
They had hidden in the back a whole case of 1qt bottles, not even out on the shelves. he sold me one for under $3.00 out the door

I Thought that there was engine oil and then there was fork oil. Fork oil being ATF based and Engine oil being, well, not ATF based. Have I been paying too much for Bel Ray Fork Oil?