driving light wiring revisited

[Brian]

I want to thank you all for the input and all the info on this subject. I have been sitting here reading everything over the past few weeks waiting for my new light bar to show up. 40 amp relay kit from the auto store, didn't use much out of it except for the relay and the ground wire, used all 14 gauge wire and larger size auto fuse holder- heavy duty with the weather proof cap, powered up with a 15 amp fuse right off the battery. Used the white wire from the headlight for the trigger and added a 14ga ground wire between the head light bucket and the frame attached at the left side coil mounting.

As for the turn/running signals, I left the factory units on for added lights up front. I just spliced the new light wires on to the factory wires, no vampire clamps, all solder joints and heat shrink tubing. The factory units hand to adjusted on the forks a bit to even things out. All is well, lgihts turns off when the starter switch is pushed. Doing it this way may spark some conversation and I would like to see it as I do not remember reading anything about the added load for these lights.

Thanks again.

[X Ring]

Sounds like you did a good job.

Marty

[fordmano]

 

I sure do like MORE LIGHT.

[John Schmidt]

By using the white headlight wire for a trigger, you now have an even larger amperage running through the start switch. You're setting yourself up for start switch failure, which will happen at a most inopportune time. You have added the current to energize the relay to the already damaging current of the headlight, and running it through a set of contacts in the start switch that have proven to be problematic. Driving lights should be wired totally separate with a switch to operate them. That way if either light circuit fails, you still have lights to get you home.

[fordmano]

Driving lights should be wired totally separate with a switch to operate them. That way if either light circuit fails, you still have lights to get you home.

Couldn't agree more, every vehicle I own has some sort of auxiliary lights on thier own circuit just for that reason...

[Ferris Leets]

By using the white headlight wire for a trigger, you now have an even larger amperage running through the start switch. You're setting yourself up for start switch failure, which will happen at a most inopportune time. You have added the current to energize the relay to the already damaging current of the headlight, and running it through a set of contacts in the start switch that have proven to be problematic. Driving lights should be wired totally separate with a switch to operate them. That way if either light circuit fails, you still have lights to get you home.

John,
     That is the reason to use the relay.  They draw very low amps. Also I believe on his bike the starter switch is disengaging the headlight relay so that that current is not going thru the switch either.  Wasn't it only the early versions that had the problem with the headlight current damaging the starter switch?

[Fudd]

Relay or not, I wouldn't even dream of running my aux lights through my starter switch.  Using another power source will offer redundancy.  At least you will have partial lighting and more options on getting home WHEN the starter button decides to crap out.

[chip]

I believe with the use of the relay, this setup should be fine, while I did op for a seperate set up for my driving lights incase of a major failure in my head light system. They should get me to safty.

[John Schmidt]

By using the white headlight wire for a trigger, you now have an even larger amperage running through the start switch. You're setting yourself up for start switch failure, which will happen at a most inopportune time. You have added the current to energize the relay to the already damaging current of the headlight, and running it through a set of contacts in the start switch that have proven to be problematic. Driving lights should be wired totally separate with a switch to operate them. That way if either light circuit fails, you still have lights to get you home.

John,
     That is the reason to use the relay.  They draw very low amps. Also I believe on his bike the starter switch is disengaging the headlight relay so that that current is not going thru the switch either.  Wasn't it only the early versions that had the problem with the headlight current damaging the starter switch?

Ferris, you're partially correct. The start switch does disengage the lights but only when starting the bike. The rest of the time, the amps are running through that set of contacts. Granted, the relay doesn't draw much current, but it still adds to an area already causing some trouble due to poor design from Honda. The amperage for the driving lights themselves isn't running through his start switch, only the extra amps from engaging the relay the moment he turns on the key. And, if he should have a problem with his ignition switch internally, the battery will drain that much faster. Driving lights need to be a totally separate circuit, not tied in any form or fashion to an existing light circuit. Old man experience talking....I only got caught in that scenario once nearly 50 yrs. ago, learned from it rather quickly. But, to each his own.

[bigguy]

Here is my starter switch. My tourer doesn't have the relay. My camera crapped out and I didn't get more pics, but the contact plate is fused into the slider where the plastic melted. It's supposed to slide up and down on a spring.
This is the second time I've seen this on a Valkyrie. The other time was just a couple of years ago on a friends Standard. That was the second failure on his bike. He has a light bar. I'll double check with him, but I'll bet he's not using a relay.
I don't have road lights, so this is from just the headlight.

[Gryphon Rider]

I can't believe some of you are getting your shorts in a bunch about the extra current going through the starter button FOR A RELAY!  I did a quick search for relay specs and and I found for the first 40A 12V relay I found online, it draws 133mA (less than 2/10 of an Amp) and uses  only 1.6W power.  That's only adding 3% to the normal current going through that button.  If the headlight bulb burns out, the relay will still have power.  If the headlight circuit fails before the point where the relay is tied in and the lights go out, you can always take the light bar wires off the relay and temporarily connect them together to get home safely.  I guess if you're really paranoid about the headlight circuit failing and having no lights and still want the light bar to shut off when the start button is pressed, you could use a double pole double throw switch (on-off-on) to be able to switch between using the headlight circuit or the accessory circuit for the relay.

Brian, I am assuming you realize that using the white wire means your light bar will only be on with the low beams.  To be on with high AND low beams, use the blue & white wire.

[John Schmidt]

Gryphon, as I stated earlier...."granted, the relay doesn't draw much" but that's not the issue here. It's the fact that there have been a number of failures of the start switch with just the headlight current passing through it, the extra relay current merely adds to that load...albeit a small amount. So, why not give yourself a bit of added security by having the circuit entirely isolated. If the start switch should happen to fail as it has a number of times for members due to the amperage load through it, you won't be going anywhere without some extra moments of frustration....and then it will definitely be with "your shorts in a bunch." Mine failed just at sunset, at an overlook in the mountains while I was taking pictures of that sunset framed in a distant valley. I returned to the bike, put the camera away and went to start it. NOTHING!! And, no cell reception at that point due to the surrounding terrain and it was getting dark fast. A flashlight to see what I was doing and a screwdriver across the start relay posts got me going, otherwise it would have been a long night. I had no headlight at that point, but my driving lights worked fine.....why??? Because they were on a separate circuit. My next move when I got home was to install the headlight relay mod in the headlight bucket, so as to remove the large amp load on the start switch and replace it with the miniscule amp load of the relay. My start switch was beyond repair, and that was with ONLY the headlight amperage passing through it.....and less than 15k miles on the bike at the time.

I then decided to convert my handlebar controls to Harley units and include fatter bars in the switch-over(they also look better as well....all chrome including the reservoirs). My start circuit controls one N/C relay which is wired in series with a second N/C relay. The first one is activated when I hit the starter and kicks out the headlight circuit for starting only(a system Honda should have used). The second relay in its N/C position operates the low beam....which is where my bike runs about 95% of the time. It activates when I go to "HI" beam, which is only on the open road....and then not used if on the Interstates. I have my driving lights wired so I can turn them on when I desire and often will use them with the LO beam when in the country. My headlight and driving lights are the only ones not LED on the bike, takes a big load off the alternator. When I travel, I carry a couple of extra N/C relays just in case. In the approx. six years since the conversion, I've never used them.

[Brian]

GR,
Not that this was a test, but you are the only one here that picked up on my white wire mistake. When I arrived at work this morning and pulled into my parking spot I noticed on the wall in front of me that the spots were not burning and my high beam was. Riding now during the daylight in the morning I did not notice the high beam indicator light burning on the headlight bucket. As soon as I hit the dimmer switch they came on. Grasshopper here forgot the fact that early in all the threads I now remember someone making the suggestion to pick up the common wire from the starter button to the dimmer switch by what appears to be a blue/white wire according to the book.

Now that everyone has expressed some really good points about this wiring configuration should I power up all three headlights from the new relay, just using the blue wire as the trigger allowing the relay to power the dimmer? I really don't see why since the relay pulls minimal amperage. This is method is still better than the wiring schematic that came from National Cycle. In following the schematic in the shop manual the interstate uses a relay for the high and low beam. Did any model valk come from the factory with a light bar? I would be interested to know how the factory wired it. I am going out now to make this change while I wait to read more about this subject and to think on it. The weather here is going to get hotter this weekend and not bad right now.

[Fudd]

Gryphon, as I stated earlier...."granted, the relay doesn't draw much" but that's not the issue here. It's the fact that there have been a number of failures of the start switch with just the headlight current passing through it, the extra relay current merely adds to that load...albeit a small amount. So, why not give yourself a bit of added security by having the circuit entirely isolated.

Exactly my point, also.  That switch is poorly designed and prone to failure.

[RP#62]

To me, the bigger issue is that if the fuse that powers the headlights blows for whatever reason, you won't be able to turn on your aux lights.  The aux light relay should be triggered from a different circuit.  I'd tap the brown/white wire in the headlight shell.  That's the feed for the turn signals and running lights and comes off the Tail/Meter fuse.  The down side is you will have to remember to turn off the aux lights when you start.  The upside is that you should always have some manner of lights.  And no, there were no stock lightbar installations
-RP

[Brian]

RP#62,
I just made the change over to the blue/white wire, now they work in low and high. I will have to go study the schematic more, are you saying the rear lights do not go out when the starter button is pushed? So many options and to think my wife wanted me to do this for safety at night as we live in a rural area with a good Deer population.

[RP#62]

The way to do this, and I'm reiterating what John has been saying, is to pick another circuit that doesn't come off the headlight fuse, to trigger the aux light relay.  You'll need to add a switch to do this.  As I was saying, you could tap into the brown/white wire in the headlight shell.  That's the feed for the turn signals and running lights and comes off the Tail/Meter fuse.  You'd then need to put a switch somewhere in the trigger circuit to manually turn the aux lights on and off.  The reason you want to do this is that if the main headlight fails, you still have the aux lights that operate independently.  If you keep it as you have it now, should something happen that causes the headlight fuse to blow, you have no lights, main or aux.
-RP

[John Schmidt]

Shortly after getting the bike, I installed an aux fuse panel under the right side cover. It's activated only when I turn on the key and I run all my extra "stuff" off it, including my driving lights.

[Brian]

RP # 62,
I studied the wiring after you mentioned it last night. I like the redundant light idea, but also like the lights to turn off automatically when starting. I need to think about my switch options and where to mount it and still keep the bike looking good and clean. I did the fuel valve conversion a few months ago and I have still haven't mastered turning off the pingel valve each time I turn off the bike when I arrive home. This would be one thing to remember. I need to go back in the head light bucket anyway to run a tap thru the threads for the head light bezel mounting screw. The SOB shifted on me while starting the screw and it crossed threaded. This little add-on has turned out to be a learning experience and a small project.
The next project is converting the rear turn signals to include running lights and possibly braking. I just picked up two used valk front turn signals to use the two pin sockets, paid $20 for the pair. I see a lot info here on this matter. I even started the conversation a few months ago with a lot of real good feedback. Do you have suggestions here that are budget minded?

[RP#62]

Don't know right off hand.  You might want to check Chet's site (rattlebars.com).  He used to have wiring suggestions for alternate tail light set ups.
-RP