here we go again ( political? in a word yep!)

[musclehead]

our president basically called congress lazy and told them they take too much time off 
if that isn't the proverbial pot calling the kettle black......


I listened to about 2 minutes of his radio address this morning and simply couldn't take it, for a guy that listens to everyone I just can't stomach more cries of 'blame bush'. the debt has increased 35% since 2008. bush has written a book been on tour promoting the book and is now sitting at home wearing his fuzzy bunny slippers, I don't think he had a hand in this increase

now if Mr SE wants to know where my point is, its still on the top of my head like always 

[Hoser]

Is this the same guy who has been golfing 13 of the last 17 weeks,  while the congress was debating the debt limit?  He seems to want congress to do all the work, and for him to get all the credit.  Unless it doesn't work, of course.    Hoser

[LandElephant]

And the 30 plus campaign fund raisers and has left for camp david this weekend.

Charlie Morse
Land Elephant

[musclehead]

I think we're a pretty fair cross section of America, we're paying attention. let's hope most others are as well. it's easy to place blame when your wallet is empty.

I keep having the arguement with my deer hunting buddy, he's apolitical as they come, says it doesn't matter if he votes.  I point out that because of the continuing failure of this administration to get out of the way of business he's STILL out of work.   I'm not getting through.....

[The Anvil]

Lol, you guys really are a trip. Every thread is like Lewis and Clark exploring a new continent called Dreamland. 

[big d]

800 billion dollar stimulus and no new jobs. health care bill, gives waivers to union companies. recent interview with emelt on jobs and he laughs that the shovel ready jobs weren't as shovel ready as expected. no jobs in this economy is funny mr. president. you are an embarassment to this country. and you cant figure out why the military personel are not in favor of your proposal for their health care. they put their lives on the line and you expect them to pay for their medical bills and own health care. are you crazy, or just that out of touch with reality.... went riding today with the wife. had a great day. valk related

[BigAl]

It's your Government Dollars at work.

Only they are not working for you.

No Debt Relief from the Dems, it would soften their power base.

Of giving away freebies to get those that depend on tax relief, that is about 60% that don't pay any taxes

and it ain't the rich.

The lower end guys and gals, no fault of their own, some just not blessed as others.

Don't pay any taxes. Just the facts please.

It is the middle class and that is about all of us Valkyrie Riders(NOw Valk Related).

That pay most of the taxes.

SO we tend to be conservative white boys most of the time.


So Obama does not need us or want us.

So the debt will keep piling up and your kids(I DON"T HAVE ANY) will pay this in the future.

God help them.

[Hoser]

Lol, you guys really are a trip. Every thread is like Lewis and Clark exploring a new continent called Dreamland.  

More like reality.  Some of us pay attention. I wish it was a dream.  Seems like a nightmare to me. I'm old enough to remember when times were good.  Perhaps you are not.  Hoser  

[The Anvil]

More like reality.  
[/quote]

Sure it is.

[musclehead]

Lol, you guys really are a trip. Every thread is like Lewis and Clark exploring a new continent called Dreamland. 

thank you! I try my best to be trippy

[musclehead]

It's your Government Dollars at work.

Only they are not working for you.

No Debt Relief from the Dems, it would soften their power base.

Of giving away freebies to get those that depend on tax relief, that is about 60% that don't pay any taxes

and it ain't the rich.

The lower end guys and gals, no fault of their own, some just not blessed as others.

Don't pay any taxes. Just the facts please.

It is the middle class and that is about all of us Valkyrie Riders(NOw Valk Related).

That pay most of the taxes.

SO we tend to be conservative white boys most of the time.


So Obama does not need us or want us.

So the debt will keep piling up and your kids(I DON"T HAVE ANY) will pay this in the future.

God help them.

I still don't believe I'm in the top 10%, not according to my checking account anyhow. my gross adjusted income went way up when I went from company driver to owner operator. my expenses went WAY WAY WAY up. what I got to keep was top 50%, I'm just a greedy millionaire tho 

[musclehead]

More like reality.  

Sure it is.
[/quote]

ok give us a dose of your reality, tell us how rosy and great things are. ( I can't wait for this response )

[BigAl]

Rosy it will never be in our lifetimes.

We are so in debt as a nation it is pitiful.

Japan's national debt is like 200% of it's GDP.

But they barrow from Japan's Citizens, not China.

Like we do.

Our debt is appraoching 100% of our GDP, not yet , but approaching, what will China do with us, debters prison.

[Highbinder]

I keep having the arguement with my deer hunting buddy, he's apolitical as they come, says it doesn't matter if he votes.  I point out that because of the continuing failure of this administration to get out of the way of business he's STILL out of work.   I'm not getting through.....

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” — Plato

[musclehead]

More like reality.  

Sure it is.

ok give us a dose of your reality, tell us how rosy and great things are. ( I can't wait for this response )
[/quote]

perhaps I was a bit hazy, let me clear it up a bit. I'm asking for you to set us straight Mr. Anvil. after all we're just a bunch of hicks repeating talking points we heard on fox news. we are waiting for you to give us the facts about the economy, that 1.8% growth in the first quarter is just right, and 9+ percent unemployment is not so bad, and 1 out of 5 houses being underwater doesn't matter, and we shouldn't  be concerned by the fact that the debt has skyrocketed to over 14 trillion.

if we live in dreamland wake us up..........

or do you just have snarky comments up your sleeve?

[Hoser]

Well said musclehead.  Hey, I'm a poet and didn't know it!     Hoser

[The Anvil]

ok give us a dose of your reality, tell us how rosy and great things are. ( I can't wait for this response )

Oh I didn't say things are rosy. The dreamland part refers to the who you're blaming for it.

But I'm not going to try and educate you people. It's like talking to a wall, clapping with one hand, pissing into the wind... pretty much any snarky expression the conveys pointlessness can be inserted here. 

[Hoser]

Right back atcha dude.     Hoser

[WylieGibbs]

Big Al I have a question for you?

Reading your post, everything is a sentence fragment, run on sentence, and on occassion a sentence.

Then you skip a line.

Is this how your mind works, or can you only manage one thought at a time before moving on.

It just struck me as odd.

It also seems if you say it or write in that form, we are to take it as a given.

Almost as if it was God talking to Moses.

We should get a stove carver employed and start recording this stuff.

It sounds that important.

WG

[musclehead]

ok give us a dose of your reality, tell us how rosy and great things are. ( I can't wait for this response )

Oh I didn't say things are rosy. The dreamland part refers to the who you're blaming for it.

But I'm not going to try and educate you people. It's like talking to a wall, clapping with one hand, pissing into the wind... pretty much any snarky expression the conveys pointlessness can be inserted here. 

just like Obama's reelection campaign, nothing of substance just an all out attack. I see how it's going to be.

wake me up, Bush is still to blame 

[The Anvil]

wake me up, Bush is still to blame 

Oh I didn't say that it's ALL Bush's fault, but you can't deny the damage that moron did either. He certainly played his part creating the mess we have today.

[Fla. Jim]

Not perfect by any measure ......But after 3 yrs of the "magic" one and his social reform rob from the haves and give to his buds. I am more than ready for someone like him to have a few more terms. All I'm saying on this topic so save your it's Bushes fault bull, and start paying attention to what is now.

[Walküre]

just like Obama's reelection campaign, nothing of substance just an all out attack. I see how it's going to be

Yup, 4 more years of listening to the crying...

They had a poll in Texas. 62% answered that they wanted anyone that could beat Obama, and 27% said they wanted someone with the same values they shared. Indicative.

I know it's not going to change anyone's opinion, but why hasn't anyone done anything about jobs, since the November landslide House overhaul? Guess it's not important. And you know why? Businesses are making profits, some even record-breaking, but aren't hiring. Jobless recovery, it's been called. Pretty easy to figure out - if they hire people, then it might look good for Obama. And they can't have that - they stand to gain a LOT more, if they have the corporate sponsored Repubs in office. Sure, they lose a little bit at the front end, but think about all the gains, when no holds barred republican open the floodgates corporate representation gets into place. Like the tax cuts Bush did - no jobs out of that, in fact, lost jobs. That's what republicans call a success. Imagine no more taxes, even for the few companies who pay them now. And less regulations, and the welfare that's being paid to Exxon Mobile, the company that makes FIVE MILLION DOLLARS an hour, 24 hours a day!! But, takes government subsidy...gee, a handout??? While we have Americans going hungry...

Yup, no matter what, we'll have NO decent employment figures, until after the election....but, that's the American way, and as long as the GOP is in control, will remain that way. The middle class is all but gone already, and won't be long before it's extinct.

[musclehead]

just like Obama's reelection campaign, nothing of substance just an all out attack. I see how it's going to be

Yup, 4 more years of listening to the crying...

They had a poll in Texas. 62% answered that they wanted anyone that could beat Obama, and 27% said they wanted someone with the same values they shared. Indicative.

I know it's not going to change anyone's opinion, but why hasn't anyone done anything about jobs, since the November landslide House overhaul? Guess it's not important. And you know why? Businesses are making profits, some even record-breaking, but aren't hiring. Jobless recovery, it's been called. Pretty easy to figure out - if they hire people, then it might look good for Obama. And they can't have that - they stand to gain a LOT more, if they have the corporate sponsored Repubs in office. Sure, they lose a little bit at the front end, but think about all the gains, when no holds barred republican open the floodgates corporate representation gets into place. Like the tax cuts Bush did - no jobs out of that, in fact, lost jobs. That's what republicans call a success. Imagine no more taxes, even for the few companies who pay them now. And less regulations, and the welfare that's being paid to Exxon Mobile, the company that makes FIVE MILLION DOLLARS an hour, 24 hours a day!! But, takes government subsidy...gee, a handout??? While we have Americans going hungry...

Yup, no matter what, we'll have NO decent employment figures, until after the election....but, that's the American way, and as long as the GOP is in control, will remain that way. The middle class is all but gone already, and won't be long before it's extinct.

first of all it's funny you quote Texas in the first sentence and jobs in the second. Texas has created almost 40 % of all jobs since the beginning of the recession. republican governor can't have anything to do with it. he's not even very conservative. (if he is Texas folks will correct me)

secondly you expect a jobs bill from the government to create jobs in the private sector? it doesn't work that way. cut the top marginal rates and the strangling regulations and stand out of the way. that's a jobs bill.

3 your right EVERY business in America (except Mcdonalds who got a waiver from OBAMACARE) is in collusion to not hire anyone because they want the prez to look bad.

Bush had 50+ months of job growth, I remember I was listening to the pundips on the left saying 150,000 jobs, that's not very many! it was two months back to back I'm pretty sure this was during the slow months of Jan-feb. the media was trying to convince us we were in a recession for 7 years before we actually got there.

I don't know what to tell you, dems are bad for business. why? they love to tax.

no mention of GE that paid no taxes last year? I'm all for buying GE products now at least I won't be paying for their tax burden when I buy their stuff.

jobless recovery? Christina Romer says we're having a 'growth less recovery'. how you recover without growth must be a lib secret.

we agree on one thing, I don't believe in subsidies....for anybody. what do you get when you subsidize? more subsidies!

if we can get people off their collective backsides and get them back to work I'll be happy and busy myself. I won't have as much time to post (might make you happy too  )

the middle class isn't the enemy of conservative, I don't know where you get this? the middle class is being destroyed right now by the dems. people that live below the poverty level have expanded under the current administration not shrunk.

sorry for the length of my response, but I couldn't just let that stand uncontested.

[Walküre]

first of all it's funny you quote Texas in the first sentence and jobs in the second. Texas has created almost 40 % of all jobs since the beginning of the recession. republican governor can't have anything to do with it. he's not even very conservative. (if he is Texas folks will correct me)

You are right, Perry doesn't have MUCH to do with jobs in Texas - he's MUCH too busy selling everything to the highest bidder. But, here's a little "light reading" on how and why and what the jobs in Texas are: The Cracks in Rick Perry’s Job-Growth Record and the affect it has had on Texas' state revenue: Perry campaigns on job creation as state revenue shrinks

secondly you expect a jobs bill from the government to create jobs in the private sector? it doesn't work that way. cut the top marginal rates and the strangling regulations and stand out of the way. that's a jobs bill.

Hmmm....then why did W sign the "Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002"? I mean, if government can't help stimulate job growth? (source: Wikipedia

3 your right EVERY business in America (except Mcdonalds who got a waiver from OBAMACARE) is in collusion to not hire anyone because they want the prez to look bad.

I assume you question that corporations can influence virtually anything they want? perhaps that's why nearly any politician is bought and paid for, by lobbyists. Handing out checks from big tobacco, while voting on tobacco policy, on the House floor doesn't give you a clue? Yeah, he DID say it was a mistake. Big whoop.

Bush had 50+ months of job growth, I remember I was listening to the pundips on the left saying 150,000 jobs, that's not very many! it was two months back to back I'm pretty sure this was during the slow months of Jan-feb. the media was trying to convince us we were in a recession for 7 years before we actually got there.

Actually, historically and factually, in the last 40 years, the biggest increases in job growth has been under Democratic leadership. Here's a bit more "light reading".

Jobs created during U.S. presidential terms

Comparing job growth among presidents

Job Growth Under Bush and Prior Presidents

I don't know what to tell you, dems are bad for business. why? they love to tax.

Bad for business? Perhaps you can take a look at the following:

Comparing Presidents: Rankings of Economic Growth

U.S. GDP Growth Under Different Presidencies

Why doesn’t Bush get economic credit?

"Data for the whole period from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats."

Perhaps, the most interesting:  REPUBLICANS vs. DEMOCRATS ON THE ECONOMY

no mention of GE that paid no taxes last year? I'm all for buying GE products now at least I won't be paying for their tax burden when I buy their stuff.

jobless recovery? Christina Romer says we're having a 'growth less recovery'. how you recover without growth must be a lib secret.

Hmmm....that's why the stock market has rebounded. Many companies are reporting "record profits", not the least of all, the energy companies.
As for Romer, I can guess where you got your "facts": Limbaugh Teams Up With Hoft To Distort Comment By Former Obama Economist. Depends on who you read - if you tie your convictions to the likes of Limbaugh, you'll believe one thing. If you tie your convictions to someone else, you will believe something else entirely. but BLIND faith in ANY one source, doesn't give anyone a rounded picture.

More on economic growth and jobless recovery:

"By some measures, each recession since the 1980s has retreated more slowly than the one before it. In one sense, we never fully recovered from the last one, in 2001: the share of the civilian population with a job never returned to its previous peak before this downturn began, and incomes were stagnant throughout the decade. Still, the weakness that lingered through much of the 2000s shouldn’t be confused with the trauma of the past two years, a trauma that will remain heavy for quite some time."

The Rich Get Richer, Everyone Else Gets Fired

An interesting opposing view, based on Small Businesses, being the seed of re-employment of the country, that makes the most sense of any I've read. Not sure if I agree with the tactics, seems we've instituted some of them, without progress, but a great read anyway: Small Business and the Jobless Recovery

the middle class isn't the enemy of conservative, I don't know where you get this? the middle class is being destroyed right now by the dems. people that live below the poverty level have expanded under the current administration not shrunk.

On this, we'll just have to disagree. I never said anything about "enemy". I stated that the middle class is disappearing. In all my years, I've never seen such a divide between parties as I do now. There seems to be no more "gray" areas - you are either Dem or Rep, with very few different choices - sure, there are the Libertarians, but not much of a shot, there. We are basically a two-party system, and with virtual 100% opposing views on basically everything.

As for the middle class, predominately and historically, the middle class has been workers, who have banded as Unions, to contract for decent wages and living/working conditions. Now, of course, they are all "union thugs", holding a gun to the head of the $100M a year corporate heads, for a piece of the pie. As the saying goes, "A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie." Oh geez, ANOTHER link:  Cutting Edge: On the Orie mistrial, CEO cookie monsters, unions and more ....

The Union's have been the target of EVERY single Republican Governor in any state. Also, a large part of the Republican party, along with the conservative talking heads. That, to me, is a direct assault on the middle class. Again, we'll just have to disagree.

I've tried to link to sources for every opinion I've expressed. Some are right, some are wrong, but most are both, to varying degrees. It depends on your point of view.

I for one, am tired of the blatant insults, slung BOTH directions. This country is pretty much divided 50/50 between progressive and conservative leaning people. To say or believe otherwise, is fallacy. Sure, there are states that PREDOMINATELY lean one way, or another, but if the individuals in that state were broken down, it would pretty much average out. And there ARE standouts - don't know the numbers, but for illustrative purposes, say, Texas is 60/40 conservative, yet it is averaged out by perhaps New York, 60/40 progressive. And I have to believe that it's not a war, as so many seem to try to make it out to be, with one side or the other, the "winner". All that creates is the side that is currently in power, making decisions, that will have the other side trying to overturn those decisions. If the country doesn't come together someplace in the middle, it WILL tear the country apart. I prefer not to see that happen. But I've seen people, on BOTH sides of the issues, that seem to want it to come to that.

[The Anvil]

Walkure, your kung-fu is excellent. 

[The Anvil]

All this talk about the debt ceiling is curious considering the timing. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4486228-500803.html

NOW it's a big deal though. How soon people forget. 

[Walküre]

All this talk about the debt ceiling is curious considering the timing. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4486228-500803.html

NOW it's a big deal though. How soon people forget. 

Yup. Here's a quote from the article:

On the day President Bush took office, the national debt stood at $5.727 trillion. The latest number from the Treasury Department shows the national debt now stands at more than $9.849 trillion. That's a 71.9 percent increase on Mr. Bush's watch.

The bailout plan now pending in Congress could add hundreds of billions of dollars to the national debt – though President Bush said this morning he expects that over time, "much if not all" of the bailout money "will be paid back."

Add that to the fact, that we're STILL paying for W's wars, one that was unprovoked, and started under false pretenses, as well as the bailout plan, and even the naysayers will have to accept SOME of the debt and problems were caused by the previous administration. But, I sincerely doubt they will, or if they do, play it off as infinitesimal in the scope of things - after all, W's middle name isn't Muslim, and he WAS born in the good 0l' US of A!! Other than where a large part of the family fortune was made (link:)How The Bush Family Made Its Nazi Fortune, Confirmed, and how W made HIS personal fortune - (link:)"with help from wealthy friends and taxpayer subsidies". Of course, they'll say this is all "old news", and that it's moot, and that only Obama the Janitor (cleaning up AFTER his messes), is what matters...

That, and the stock market "correction", that occurred October, 2008. In THAT case, REGULAR people actually had made money in the market, more than could be allowed - the "correction" was taking it all back - in a recession, or worse, a depression, those WITH the money, can buy the offered stocks that people are forced to sell at fire sale pricing. Thus, increasing THEIR wealth, when it rebounds. And of course, a LOT of that wealth was due to the give-back of the Bush tax cuts. Of course, those cuts did exactly what was expected, regardless of what was SAID was expected.

I could go on and on and on...but I don't really relish beating around the Bush...

R

[The Anvil]

Of course, they'll say this is all "old news", and that it's moot, and that only Obama the Janitor (cleaning up AFTER his messes), is what matters...

And to be fair, they'll have a valid point. He was supposed to right the ship and hasn't been as good as I'd hoped. But what galls me is that all of the con-bots want to heap it all on Obama. I even hear the term "Obama bailouts" bandied about as if 480 billion (more than half) of the bailouts weren't handed out under Bush. As if the Iraq war, (which will end up costing us trillions in the final analysis) was not inherited from the previous regime. Just think about what the money we spent on the Iraq war could have done here. And nevermind the money, what bout the LIVES? You can replace money. Those who died there are never coming back. The push for war in Iraq is among the absolute WORST decisions made by an American president in this country's entire history. But the Mea Party, Republicans, Neo-cons etc. all like to just pretend it didn't happen.

There are a lot of people stupid enough to buy into the idea that the socialist Muslim black guy is to blame for the mess we're in. I'm not one of them.

[Serk]

Once again, the best argument ya'll can come up with is "Yeah, Obama sucks, but Bush sucked almost as bad!"...

The ONLY way in which you'll find me defending Bush is that compared to what we've got now, he was awesome... By any other measure, he was, in my estimation, the third worst president in modern history (#2 Carter, #1 Obama). Yeah, Iraq was an unjustified war, we never should have gone there. Afghanistan was justified, but we should have gone in even bigger than we did (And we should have declared formal war, but that's another issue) Of course, even Obama decided to go into Libya, but not Syria, or any of a dozen or so other repressive countries where their leaders are killing their citizens. Guess Obama has the mark of blood for oil on his hands too...

Saying "Yeah, but Bush was no saint either!" is no defense for the harm being done NOW. I didn't vote for Bush, I was not pleased with most of what HE did either, but that doesn't excuse what's being done to this country NOW.

[The Anvil]

Once again, the best argument ya'll can come up with is "Yeah, Obama sucks, but Bush sucked almost as bad!"...

Oh no I didn't. Bush sucked WAY worse. Granted the final numbers aren't in but that's how it stands now. He inherited the country in a far better position than Obama did and managed to put us in a toilet by mishandling EVERY MAJOR DECISION HE WAS TASKED WITH. Even the Iraq war which shouldn't even have entered into his mind! Do you really think McCain and Caribou Barbie would have been able to fix this mess by essentially continuing the exact same policies that got us here? Do you really think you're going to fix 8 solid years of an idiot at the helm practically overnight? 

Obama hasn't even had a full term and you're calling him #1 worst in history. And you're putting Carter over Nixon. Carter sucked, but NFW he was worse than Tricky Dick.     Whatever you're taking must be good stuff man.

[Serk]

In MY opinion, the Clinton years were prosperous because of the policies of the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations coming to fruition, and the recession of the Bush years (And now) was a byproduct of the policies of the Clinton administration coming home to roost.

And you know what's really amazing? I can state my opinion without also insulting you and insinuating you must be taking drugs to believe what you do. Pretty cool, huh?

[Walküre]

I didn't vote for Bush, I was not pleased with most of what HE did either, but that doesn't excuse what's being done to this country NOW.

Ah, it's like dangling meat in front of a lion...



And, what EXACTLY is being done, NOW?? Please, references, links, etc, would be appreciated. I keep hearing "O-bammer is driving us into the ground", O-bam-bam is taking away our guns or our liberties, or anything else you can name. But I almost NEVER see specifics, just generalities, and mimicry of talking points of the talking heads. He has caved, on just about every single thing he campaigned on, to the chagrin of his supporters, and it's STILL not enough! Perhaps if he took the US to war with Libya (Hey, they have killer Pistachios of mass destruction!!!!!! And we have proof!!!!!!), and killed 100,000+ Iraqi's and over 4400 dead soldiers (4330 since "Mission Accomplished" - no, not Bin Laden,the OTHER mission...), as well as over 33,000 wounded soldiers.

Obama is worse?? Surely you jest...

[G-Man]

"A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie."

Thank you for posting this.  I was hoping someone would so I can demonstrate how SILLY it really is.

First of all, where do the cookies come from to pay the public union worker......TAXES, right?

So, in reality, the CEO, being in the top 1% of income earners puts 25% of the cookies on the plate and takes maybe one chocolate chip back as he uses the least amount, if any, of the services that taxes pay for.  The TEA partier is probably in the next 5% of income earners and therefore puts 50% of the cookies on the plate and maybe takes one whole cookie back as they use very little, if any, services that the taxes pay for.. The other 94% of the income earners put the remaining cookies on the plate, 25%, and I am sure this is where most union members fall into.  In my town, 75% of the budget goes to pay for county employees past and present.  So the union member at the table is reaching for 75% of the cookies on that plate while only contributing 25% of them.   This is a much better picture, based on reality.

[The Anvil]

In MY opinion, the Clinton years were prosperous because of the policies of the Reagan and Bush Sr.

That's fine, but you'd be wrong. Trickle down doesn't work. If you recall, Bush Sr. lost his re-election bid because the country was in a deep recession due to the hangover from Reaganomics. Reaganomics did a lot of short term good getting this country back on track, but it was not a sustainable method for continued growth. You do not want explosive growth for long term viability. But at the time it was what the country needed after the malaise of the Carter administration. Well Bush Sr. (a better president than he gets credit for) inherited that inevitable hangover  and paid the price.

I'd say it's like the situation we have now but it's not as Bush was no Reagan and managed to destroy the prosperity of the years preceding his election. Oh Bush turned the country around alright, just from the right direction to the wrong direction. Obama inherited a massive clusterf**k that we still find ourselves mired in. Meanwhile, he hasn't actually enacted marshal law or really curtailed ANY personal freedoms or raised the taxes of the working class despite what Beckittybaugh told you.

[Walküre]

Thank you for posting this.  I was hoping someone would so I can demonstrate how SILLY it really is.

First of all, where do the cookies come from to pay the public union worker......TAXES, right?

So, in reality, the CEO, being in the top 1% of income earners puts 25% of the cookies on the plate and takes maybe one chocolate chip back as he uses the least amount, if any, of the services that taxes pay for.  The TEA partier is probably in the next 5% of income earners and therefore puts 50% of the cookies on the plate and maybe takes one whole cookie back as they use very little, if any, services that the taxes pay for.. The other 94% of the income earners put the remaining cookies on the plate, 25%, and I am sure this is where most union members fall into.  In my town, 75% of the budget goes to pay for county employees past and present.  So the union member at the table is reaching for 75% of the cookies on that plate while only contributing 25% of them.   This is a much better picture, based on reality.

What...a...crock...of....poppycock!! You seem to be assuming that ALL CEO's were born into that position, and have NEVER used services? They ALL went to private schools, drove on private roads, owned their own hospitals, and municipalities, and didn't use ANY public municipalities? So they've NEVER had use for the services, that they are paying 50% of? WooHoo, I guess you're right as rain, there, pardner!!

And Tea Pariers are the NEXT 5% of wage earners, and another 50% of the cookies?? Like these??



Somehow, I DON'T THINK SO!!! If that's the case, talk about over-paid!! I do seriously believe that you have the numbers mangled.

As for public Union workers - that CEO "negotiated" his millions and millions of dollars,(LINK:HERE) both in salary, options, and perks. I don't see anyone doing anything but SUPPORTING his wages. And, when he does a lousy job, he grabs his countless millions in his golden parachute, also negotiated, and bails, a multi-multi millionaire, as often as not. And trending upwards!! (another pesky link to the truth: Trends in CEO Pay

Yet, the Union workers ALSO contracted for his wages, his working conditions, and his pension. By comparison, here's how he stands up to the CEO's pay/perks: (yet another one of those cursed links!: Pay Disparity). Yet, now that he has performed the services contracted for, he's being forced to accept less than the contract. He's being told that his pension is no longer what he has worked for. And if Ryan has his way, he wouldn't have social security coming, if he's presently under 50, he wouldn't have Medicare, instead he'd have a "voucher" - read that, payment from the taxpayer, DIRECTLY to the insurance company, that they don't even have to work for - and they'll receive it until the worker dies, which might be soon, if he can't get his meds, that he worked for his entire life, as soon as his "voucher" worth of insurance is used up. And with deregulation, you know, "business friendly f**king of the workers", he can worry that his health might not even LAST, until he's allowed to retire, at 74, or what pieces are still left of him. But then, when the CEO makes more in ONE YEAR, than any 4 workers make in their lifetime, what do you expect? That CEO DESERVES to live, the worker doesn't. so, where were the people complaining when the work was contracted out? If YOU think the work is SOOOO good, and the pay sooooo good, and the benefits sooooo good, do YOU work in the public sector? Probably not - the  pay and perks are really MUCH better, in the private sector. But SOMEone has to haul your trash, clean and repair your roads, make sure ALL students are educated, make sure you have hospitals, when you have an emergency, and need those services, have decent drinking water, running toilets, and electricity...oh yeah, you don't USE public services - I forgot.

Yeah, I'm going to fight you for my cookie!! Every last crumb of it. I bartered for it, I worked for it, I earned it, and they're trying to take it away from me. I don't HAVE a golden parachute I can hop on, and ride off into the gold-lined sunset.

DISCLAIMER: The "you"s in this post, and all my posts, are not directed at ANY one person, unless it's very obvious - it is merely a generic term, for others, NOT pointing fingers. I'm sure I could think of a dozen OTHER disclaimers - "you said this...you said that!...but would hope that pettiness would be obvious.

I can see where certain people don't want to raise the ceiling, and force the country to default - they're the same ones defaulting on the public workers of this great country...

What gags me most, is the gun owners, who scream "if we register, they'll be taking our guns!! If we ban semi-automatics, that are built SOLELY for killing people, next, they'll be taking our guns!! If we let them regulate, next, they'll be taking ALL our guns!!". Yet, many of those are the same people whittling away at the less fortunate in our society. They give ALL kinds of excuses for it, but few reasons. And they keep taking more, and more, and more, and STILL WANT MORE!! NO WONDER, they're worried about someone taking their guns - they are afraid that others think like THEY do!!!

Geez....

R

[Walküre]

You kids make sure you let the cat out, and turn the lights and TV off...I'm going to bed - have to work tonight!!

 

R

[G-Man]

Thank you for posting this.  I was hoping someone would so I can demonstrate how SILLY it really is.

First of all, where do the cookies come from to pay the public union worker......TAXES, right?

So, in reality, the CEO, being in the top 1% of income earners puts 25% of the cookies on the plate and takes maybe one chocolate chip back as he uses the least amount, if any, of the services that taxes pay for.  The TEA partier is probably in the next 5% of income earners and therefore puts 50% of the cookies on the plate and maybe takes one whole cookie back as they use very little, if any, services that the taxes pay for.. The other 94% of the income earners put the remaining cookies on the plate, 25%, and I am sure this is where most union members fall into.  In my town, 75% of the budget goes to pay for county employees past and present.  So the union member at the table is reaching for 75% of the cookies on that plate while only contributing 25% of them.   This is a much better picture, based on reality.

What...a...crock...of....poppycock!! You seem to be assuming that ALL CEO's were born into that position, and have NEVER used services? They ALL went to private schools, drove on private roads, owned their own hospitals, and municipalities, and didn't use ANY public municipalities? So they've NEVER had use for the services, that they are paying 50% of? WooHoo, I guess you're right as rain, there, pardner!!

And Tea Pariers are the NEXT 5% of wage earners, and another 50% of the cookies?? Like these??



Somehow, I DON'T THINK SO!!! If that's the case, talk about over-paid!! I do seriously believe that you have the numbers mangled.

As for public Union workers - that CEO "negotiated" his millions and millions of dollars,(LINK:HERE) both in salary, options, and perks. I don't see anyone doing anything but SUPPORTING his wages. And, when he does a lousy job, he grabs his countless millions in his golden parachute, also negotiated, and bails, a multi-multi millionaire, as often as not. And trending upwards!! (another pesky link to the truth: Trends in CEO Pay

Yet, the Union workers ALSO contracted for his wages, his working conditions, and his pension. By comparison, here's how he stands up to the CEO's pay/perks: (yet another one of those cursed links!: Pay Disparity). Yet, now that he has performed the services contracted for, he's being forced to accept less than the contract. He's being told that his pension is no longer what he has worked for. And if Ryan has his way, he wouldn't have social security coming, if he's presently under 50, he wouldn't have Medicare, instead he'd have a "voucher" - read that, payment from the taxpayer, DIRECTLY to the insurance company, that they don't even have to work for - and they'll receive it until the worker dies, which might be soon, if he can't get his meds, that he worked for his entire life, as soon as his "voucher" worth of insurance is used up. And with deregulation, you know, "business friendly f**king of the workers", he can worry that his health might not even LAST, until he's allowed to retire, at 74, or what pieces are still left of him. But then, when the CEO makes more in ONE YEAR, than any 4 workers make in their lifetime, what do you expect? That CEO DESERVES to live, the worker doesn't. so, where were the people complaining when the work was contracted out? If YOU think the work is SOOOO good, and the pay sooooo good, and the benefits sooooo good, do YOU work in the public sector? Probably not - the  pay and perks are really MUCH better, in the private sector. But SOMEone has to haul your trash, clean and repair your roads, make sure ALL students are educated, make sure you have hospitals, when you have an emergency, and need those services, have decent drinking water, running toilets, and electricity...oh yeah, you don't USE public services - I forgot.

Yeah, I'm going to fight you for my cookie!! Every last crumb of it. I bartered for it, I worked for it, I earned it, and they're trying to take it away from me. I don't HAVE a golden parachute I can hop on, and ride off into the gold-lined sunset.

DISCLAIMER: The "you"s in this post, and all my posts, are not directed at ANY one person, unless it's very obvious - it is merely a generic term, for others, NOT pointing fingers. I'm sure I could think of a dozen OTHER disclaimers - "you said this...you said that!...but would hope that pettiness would be obvious.

I can see where certain people don't want to raise the ceiling, and force the country to default - they're the same ones defaulting on the public workers of this great country...

What gags me most, is the gun owners, who scream "if we register, they'll be taking our guns!! If we ban semi-automatics, that are built SOLELY for killing people, next, they'll be taking our guns!! If we let them regulate, next, they'll be taking ALL our guns!!". Yet, many of those are the same people whittling away at the less fortunate in our society. They give ALL kinds of excuses for it, but few reasons. And they keep taking more, and more, and more, and STILL WANT MORE!! NO WONDER, they're worried about someone taking their guns - they are afraid that others think like THEY do!!!

Geez....

R

Brother, you have missed the boat entriely, and I am not going to hold your hand on this one and go line by line on your nonsense.  There is so much emotional garbage in your posts/reply and very little fact that it is just not worth it.  You're angry and promoting class warfare and bending "facts" to suit your story.  Enjoy!

[Hoser]

+1, G man,  Wish I was as smart as some folks think they are!       Hoser

[The Anvil]

Brother, you have missed the boat entriely,

Sure he has.